View Full Version : hi there - can i share some thoughts on the FR / Cupra?
Hi folks - sorry to burst in here with lots of Q's, but i've been lurking and reading up on the Ibiza, trying to get to grips with the model changes over the past couple of months etc etc.
The posts in here are brilliant, informative and entertainting - thanks!
The reason for the post is to ask for second opinions on my next car. I've currently got a Golf TDI 130 on a company scheme, which i'm about to drop out of. I've been looking at the Ibiza as a replacement, as i like the shape, and its nice and new, i have been considering a Leon, but i feel the headlights tend to age the shape of that car - i'm sure if they fitted a new face to the Leon it would look great. Also i've always had problems with the centre console in the A3/Leon seeming to angle towards the passenger - like Seat/Audi couldn't be bothered to re-mould for the RHD console. :-)
After visiting the Seat dealer in Wakefield today (Thornes) they tell me that the Red Cupra PD in the showroom is going on demo this weekend, so hopefully i can get a drive in that, i was originally looking at the FR, but the wheels and bumpers make the cupra look extra special, its just the price i'm having problems with.
Does anyone think it'd be worth buying a FR, fitting 17" cupra wheels perhaps a Remap and the cupra bumpers? or would the modified portion of the car make it harder to insure?
On insurance i was pleasantly surprised to find the Cupra, although being such a higher group than the FR is only £312 fully comp, where the FR is £270 fully comp (30yr old, 6 yr NCB car on drive) so insurance isn't an excuse not to buy the cupra.
Comments on the Cupra:
Love the steering wheel - nice and chunky
Dashboard - why is the dash black, and not the dark silver colour of the FR (do you think i could get this part fitted to a cupra?)
Mirrors - what colour are they on the cupra?
Steering wheel general query - looking on Seat.com i see that a wheel is available with controls for cruise and or radio (in the gallery section, the first page under interior) - when i asked the dealer today he looked very blank - has anyone enquired to see if this part could be imported and fitted?
Now the tricky question, the FR is £12950, the Cupra £15500, what is the best price folks have managed to get from thier dealer for these two models?
Buy the Cupra from the broker in the dealer section unless you can get your local outfit to discount
muddyboots
22-07-2004, 07:56
Hi Steve, welcome...!
I doubt you'd have any problem insuring the FR if you changed the wheels and remapped it, a large proportion of people on here have done similar mods and get insurance without problem - for example Direct Line were happy to cover my chipped 130 (with a premium increase obviously). Those were quite impressive quotes you got too by the way, I'm sure they will make quite a few people on here pretty jealous!!
The price of the Cupra PD is a hot topic on here, general opinion is that it is overpriced and insurance group has changed to be ridiculously high (what group did they assume when you got your quotes btw??).
I suppose it depends on how many of the Cupra goodies you'd want to add to an FR - if just a remap and wheels then you should be quids in going for the FR. If you start extending to the likes of brake and suspension mods too you might be better of just opting for the Cupra in the first place.
Interesting comment about the steering wheel, that's one thing I was disappointed with when I bought mine, that there were no steering-mounted controls, both my last 2 cars ('92 Clio then '98 Rover 220 SDI) both had stereo controls on the wheel/column and I really miss them, thought it was a bit poor not to fit them on such an up to date car.
Fnially have you considered importing ? That's how I got mine, there were savings at the time - not sure how prices compare at the moment, but check out the Import forum and see what prices the likes of Pieter Gordon and Wim Pruys can offer...
Ant FR Turbo
22-07-2004, 08:30
exactly the same as me, i had a 130 tdi company car then left it.
I got the FR petrol, (do miss the low fuel bills) doing a few bits to it, ie chip and larger cupra r wheels, exhaust, but that will be it now, and mine will be easily quicker than the standard cupra petrol when its out, so i am happy,
The mirrors on the Cupra are black
The steering controls are like on the golfs where all the base models had them but sportier ones did'nt, depends if you prefer the smaller sportier steering wheel or not, no hardship as stereo is right in front of you anyway.
The best price for the TDi cupra is £14500 but tht may be an import,
May be worth checking the price in somewhere like holland, getting a right hand drive one and then go and drive it back, the neg points for the import are lower resale value, but plus points are you may get a lot better spec, eg xenons, rain sens wipers, auto lights etc, and the nicer opening rear windows.
I would say go for the FR and save the bucks, and then go for the 2.0 TDi 4-motion golf which will be a cracking motor, especially as you can chip em to 200bhp :worship:
I would guess that adding the bumpers front and back would cost about £800 once you get them painted. The wheels would be about the same with tyres plus another £500 for the bremo brakes. Then to get your sport the same you'd have to add sports suspension (FR had far too much roll and wallow for me thouhg i'm used to a very hard ride) a sporty steering wheel, exhaust, sports seats and then your remap. I'd say the cupra was worth it when you add up all the extras over the FR if you want all those things, plus come sale time the cupra will still command a premium. The dash is all black to make it stand out as sporty withthe red highlights, if you didn't like it i'm sure you could swap out some pieces for the standard grey trim but you'd probably devalue your car for the second hand market.
Mirrors on the cupra are supposed to be gloss black, compared to the mat silver of the FR.
On price imanaged to get about £650 off the cupra and could get £1K off a FR though i'd liek to think others would find it harder to better that as I had no trade in and could do a deal for cash. Idealy you don't want anyone to give large discounts as it will keep the second hand values up, deler said they have less margin on the cupra so your less likely to get large discounts anyway though i didn't look into importing.
muddyboots
22-07-2004, 09:03
May be worth checking the price in somewhere like holland, getting a right hand drive one and then go and drive it back, the neg points for the import are lower resale value, but plus points are you may get a lot better spec, eg xenons, rain sens wipers, auto lights etc, and the nicer opening rear windows.
Yup, you can get one to UK spec then add on the extras we can't get. (See my sig ;) )
geordiesherman
22-07-2004, 11:19
That will be a TDI FR then as my 1.8T is very flat when conering and the ride is acceptable although the springs/dampers are harder than the Sport. My last ibiza the 130 TDI Sport rolled loads and crashed all over the place due to poor damping, which is why I went the petrol route as Seat can't seem to get TDI Ibiza's handling right due to the weight, funny how Skoda can with the Fabia VRS........................
Ant FR Turbo
22-07-2004, 12:14
I would guess that adding the bumpers front and back would cost about £800 once you get them painted. The wheels would be about the same with tyres plus another £500 for the bremo brakes. Then to get your sport the same you'd have to add sports suspension (FR had far too much roll and wallow for me thouhg i'm used to a very hard ride) a sporty steering wheel, exhaust, sports seats and then your remap. I'd say the cupra was worth it when you add up all the extras over the FR if you want all those things, plus come sale time the cupra will still command a premium. The dash is all black to make it stand out as sporty withthe red highlights, if you didn't like it i'm sure you could swap out some pieces for the standard grey trim but you'd probably devalue your car for the second hand market.
Mirrors on the cupra are supposed to be gloss black, compared to the mat silver of the FR.
On price imanaged to get about £650 off the cupra and could get £1K off a FR though i'd liek to think others would find it harder to better that as I had no trade in and could do a deal for cash. Idealy you don't want anyone to give large discounts as it will keep the second hand values up, deler said they have less margin on the cupra so your less likely to get large discounts anyway though i didn't look into importing.
Only extras over FR are wheels, (would work out about £700 including tyres - off £500 you would get for FR items on Ebay = £200 cost) the bumpers which are £317 inc vat from Seat (are on back order though) + £250 to spray (at a good spray shop) - selling of old bumpers for £100 on ebay = cost of £467, the Pedals = cost of £30, the upgrade on the engine , Upsoloute £300 and will be faster than a standard cupra (especially petrol and the petrol cupra can only be remapped to the same amount as hardly any difference to engine spec as standard, The seat covers cost of £260. The black roof lining will be hard to buy new so lets leave that out of the eqution, and the slightly different exhaust tip which can probably be had for £30 from some where. So thats a grand net total (so after recouping money on sold FR items) of £1287 that is not too bad especially when you can pick up an FR brand new for £12500 now,
Oh and nearly forgot , the brakes, well there standard FR equipment and NOT Brembo as standard, so you'll need £5 for a tin of smooth red hammerite done, so total cost of 13700 for a new FR that is quicker than a cupta diesel or petrol version, the choice is yours, you pays your money and you makes your choice........
Ant
I agree with most of what you have said, although i think the cupra brakes are slightly larger than the FR ones (correct me if i'm wrong)
Also there are unseen costs in transforming a FR in a Cupra clone.
It will ALWAYS be an FR. Come resale time it won't be as valuable as a Cupra and i'm not that keen on transforming cars into somethimg they are not. There is also a lot of effort and time involved in changing it.
But in the end its all down to personal choice. No doubt you enjoy the process of changing your car and the £££ it might save you.
Then there are some people who will want the finished product straight away and buy the Cupra.
I'm still deciding which to go for :D
Evo describes the Cupra (in comparison to the FR) as being lower with different spring and damper settings, larger anti-roll bars, 4-pot brakes with larger discs. There might be more too.
The Cupra i drove also had a rear centre 3-point belt and headrest whereas the FR didn't.
Not sure if this is a common difference or not.
Ant FR Turbo
22-07-2004, 14:11
i could'nt give a monkeys, i was just totalling up the differences and the costs included doing it yourself anyway,
i believe they may be larger, but as they are still 2-pot calipers you will not see a difference as the FR has a very good set-up in stock.
Anyway I have gone for 18' Cupra R wheels, and a set of seat side skirts, as i went off the idea of having a cupra lookie likie
i could'nt give a monkeys, i was just totalling up the differences and the costs included doing it yourself anyway,
i believe they may be larger, but as they are still 2-pot calipers you will not see a difference as the FR has a very good set-up in stock.
Anyway I have gone for 18' Cupra R wheels, and a set of seat side skirts, as i went off the idea of having a cupra lookie likie
Obviously, but above you list the 'only extras over FR' giving a comprehensive list but omitting some key details, which don't matter to you, but might to somebody else.
Thanks folks - whilst i'm keen on the looks of the cupra, the extra expence for the wheels and bumpers is a lot to consider.
A chap at work sort of brought it home with a comment along the lines of "Why would you want to pay for a Cupra when the FR is still a damn good/fast car?"
And i suppose he's right - the prices for the FR are around the £12500 mark from broadspeed including the metallic paint and the cruise control, and i'm trying to find another car for that money that looks good and goes as fast, and its difficult.
I'd still like buttons on the steering wheel - i've got them as options on the current Golf, and they are a god-send, i'll have a look around on the european dealers seat sites to see if i can translate the options list - certainly the buttons on the wheels and the xenons would be nice, as too would ESP, instead of the simple brake assist token gesture you get from UK dealers.
But as the dealer in Wakefield offered the testdrive in the 160 bhp TDI Cupra it would be awfully rude of me not to attend :D
...later...
after a quick search of seat.nl the options list appears as: (all prices are in euros)
5 deuren + elektrische ramen achter 649 ???
CD-wisselaar
Alleen te bestellen in combinatie met radio/CD-speler of navigatiesysteem. 410
CD Player?
EDS + TCS + ESP 595 Makes sense in english (just!)
Elektrisch bedienbaar schuif-/kanteldak 615 dunno?
Leerpakket
Leerpakket omvat: lederen bekleding op stoelen en zijpanelen, lederen sportstuurwiel en lederen pookknop.Leerpakket omvat: lederen bekleding op stoelen en zijpanelen, lederen sportstuurwiel en lederen pookknop. 2275 Leather Pack ?
Metallic lak 395 Metallic Paint
Navigatiesysteem + volautomatische airconditioning 1195 Navigation system
Radio/CD-speler met 6 speakers 495
Radio/CD-speler met MP3 + multifunctioneel stuurwiel 625 This is the steering wheel option - looks like an MP3 compatible CD player is here too!
Regensensor + automatisch dimmende binnenspiegel 185 Rain sensor
Signaalkleur rood 175 Red something or other??
Volautomatische airconditioning 300 Air-Con
Volumetrisch alarm 230 Alarm
Winterpakket
Winterpakket omvat: verwarmbare voorstoelen, verwarmbare ruitensproeierkoppen en koplampreinigingsinstallatie. 150 WinterPack - dont know about the contents, perhaps headlamp washers and heated seats???
Xenon koplampen
Inclusief koplampreinigingsinstallatie. 750 Xenon lamps
If anyone has a Dutch translator and could fill in the gaps i'd appreciate it. :)
looking at the costs though the list price over there of 22795 euros for a diesel FR translates as £15,142.73 which seems a tad high. :(
Well - just had a call from the dealer - huge problems with the Ibiza Cupra test drive....
....first of all earlier in the week they rang to say the car hasn't been taxed/registered, no problem i said - a demo on trade plates would be fine..
...eventually they agreed to a short test on trade plates. But today they phone to tell me that Seat UK have taken the car to a show today, and as such its unavailable, also the salesman told me that as they have not had chance to fit a Tracker to the car they would be uninsured to take the car out on trade plates.
The initial query with the dealer was to look at an FR, which they can't offer to me on a test drive, the best thing thaey can come up with is a Cordoba TDI next week.
I think this dealer doesn't want me to spend any money with him :-)
I'll have a ring round the other dealers to see whats available for test drive.
BeezerDiesel
25-07-2004, 12:46
_Steve contact Pieter at United on the imports section and he will talk you through all the options availible from the factory and is Dutch to boot.
Toxxin has said his Ma has got her Cupra for just over £14k which is a good deal, personally I think I would be tempted by the Fab vRS but a Cupra for £14k makes a whole lot of sense.
Cheers Andy - i'll certainly have a look at the import situation, if only to be able to have a ibiza with a multi-function steering wheel, the whole"import" thing doesn't really worry me, my father bought a 1.4S/Stella Leon from "The Car People" as an import back in the spring of 2002, he's had the odd niggle, and after an accident he's had perfect service from UK main dealers, he's keeping the car for more than 3 years, so the 'import' tag doesn't really matter - on a 5 year old car the difference between a UK car and an Import car is going to be negligible, if anyone is bothered at all at that age.
What i need to do though is have a go in one ! The Golf i have at the minute is sprung like a Slumberland Deluxe mattress, with a big heavy diesel lump up front this makes the handling ratehr interesting, meanwhile a colleague has the same chassis, and the same engine in his Audi A3 1.9 TDI Sport, which has stiffer springs and 17" factory alloys, and that car is like a roller skate, heavier steering, very taught through corners, but no give at all when going over bumps and ripples in the road - the yellow bands on the road to get you to slow down for the next roundabout are like going over kerbs when you're driving his A3.
I'd like the cupra (or indeed the FR) suspension to be somewhere inbetween - a better chassis than the old Golf/A3/Leon combined with better tuned suspension components perhaps?
My mum got her Cupra TDI in Platinum with lots of extras for £14200...push a dealer for that figure, if you don't get it I'll put you in contact with the dealer who did it.