Beeza Cupra vs Beeza Cupra R [Archive] - SEAT Cupra.net

Digby

02-04-2002, 22:22

I wanted one too but didn't have the extra 5K, even 2nd hand were pricey.

From what I gathered the differences were:-
17" alloys
Lowered suspension (7mm) from Cupra
Brembro front brakes (supposedly off the 911)
180 BHP engine
extra dials
better stearing setup
and a few badges and cosmetic stuff

I'm sure you could get a better car for an extra 5k spent aftermarket tunning.

Know doubt there will be a few of you disagree but I'm a newbie so don't shoot me just yet.

_____________
Digby

mstew20

02-04-2002, 22:24

I thought the cupra was group 14 and r was 17. I wouldn't trust topgear any way.

Mark

Shock_Xe

02-04-2002, 22:57

well as far as i know (parkers car guide) cupra group 15 cupra r group 17. neway i know bout the cosmetic stuff but y is it 180bhp???? is it engine mods or just on board management system (Chip)

Crofter

02-04-2002, 23:02

16" Alloys , insurance group changes depending apon insurance company you speak to , and I doubt many payed the full asking price :D Should hold its money a bit better than the average cupra ( Fingers crossed ).

They excell on a back road , but mine seems to be limited to 140MpH it fly's up until then and then at like 5600 RPM it will not rev any higher . Therefore I believe its limited.

Might be wrong........ its happened before ................I think it was a thursday :D

mstew20

02-04-2002, 23:15

Probably just wind resistance or engine tight cos my standard cupra has had 145 on the clock and still puppling slightly, had to slow down for a corner though so never got the full speed. Car has 12000 miles and there didn't seem to be any wind.

Regards

Mark

Shock_Xe

03-04-2002, 00:25

But y is it faster?????????????

mstew20

03-04-2002, 02:57

its faster because its got 24 extra bhp.

mark

Shock_Xe

03-04-2002, 12:03

yes i know but y does it have 24 extra bhp??? what gives the car this???? i.e uprated turbo?? uprated cams?? what oh god what is it????

ab3

03-04-2002, 12:42

I believe its just a different ECU, possibly similar to the Leon setup, as thats running 180 bhp also. Apart from the ECU the rest of the engine system is identical.

Shock_Xe

03-04-2002, 13:05

so if its just the ecu then y when going for a chip (apr for example) they have different chips for different cars. 1 for the cupra and 1 for the cupra R. With the cupra R chip going higher than the cupra. surely then you could have the cupra r upgrade which gives you more power for the same price if no engine parts are changed???

ibizacupra

03-04-2002, 14:03

Originally posted by Shock_Xe
so if its just the ecu then y when going for a chip (apr for example) they have different chips for different cars. 1 for the cupra and 1 for the cupra R. With the cupra R chip going higher than the cupra. surely then you could have the cupra r upgrade which gives you more power for the same price if no engine parts are changed???

Are you sure the Ibiza Cupra R upgrade gets more power than a regular Ibiza Cupra?

Only software difference to my knowledge.
Bill

Shock_Xe

03-04-2002, 14:11

yes the cupra has a 1.0bar upgrade 196bhp 240lb tourque and cupra r has 1.1bar upgrade 207bhp and same tourque. Both same price aswell

ibizacupra

03-04-2002, 14:16

Originally posted by Shock_Xe
yes the cupra has a 1.0bar upgrade 196bhp 240lb tourque and cupra r has 1.1bar upgrade 207bhp and same tourque. Both same price aswell

Hmmm.
personally I am sceptical. You will see more variances than that across different, identically spec'd chipped cars.

Bill

davemcgo

03-04-2002, 15:01

When I went looking at new cars - here's what made me get the R (apart from extra power)...

For an extra £1500 ish, I got a Cupra which has the following extras.
: Track 7mm wider on each side
: Lowered by 7mm on standard Cupra
: Bad-Boy brakes
: 16" Superturismo's (+ spare alloy to fit over brakes)
: Oil Temp and Voltmeter gauges
: Re-chiiped ECU (180bhp) - although mine said 192 on the RR :D
: Blue indicator bulbs
: Tasty red 'R' badges on front/rear and on centre console

So - you can save £1500 by getting the standard Cupra, but if you want it chipped, I guess you'll be spending cash on better brakes (which still won't be as good as the Brembo's) and suspension to start with. Then the cost of the chip on top of that.

On top of all these differences, you also get a pretty rare car.

I think I made the right choice ;)

ibizacupra

03-04-2002, 15:47

Originally posted by davemcgo
I guess you'll be spending cash on better brakes (which still won't be as good as the Brembo's)

I hear that.. my chipped "210" Brakes are not a match for the performance.

Gimme the R's brakes any day. Shame about the price though.

regards
Bill

davemcgo

03-04-2002, 16:16

Gimme the R's brakes any day.
I can't praise them highly enough. Absolutely amazing.

Pity it'd cost about £1200 for them. Precisely one of the main reasons for getting the R...

Did you see the thread about the Porche brake upgrade for the Ibiza? I reckon they'd be just as good, but again, it's all down to pennies ain't it?

THE BEST £1500 EXTRA I'VE EVER SPENT :)

Shock_Xe

03-04-2002, 20:55

only £1500 extra for a cupra r???? u sure cause an average y plate cupra is about £11k a cupra R is at least £13500 if not £14k or more. and lowered 7mil aint gonna make that much difference thats like the thickness of a mouse mat not even a centermeter. so no diference there really. pads lets face it not alot £100 or so, blue bulbs £65 the gauges say another £100 at most, badges mean **** all and for £600 you could have yer standard cupra chipped over 20bhp and double the tourque more than the cupra R so it is out performed and lastly alloys £600 - rsale on yer old ones say £250-300 for them so we looking at an extra £1,200 on yer standard cupra to make it better than a cupra R and u still save another £1-2k after mods and insurance is still a group 15 and not a 17 like cupra r so few hundered quid there if not £1000 for some of us. Is it really worth it then???

Crofter

03-04-2002, 21:58

Shock_Xe are you looking for a fight ? :D

Put your hand up if you own a Cupra R < Look's very closely > Nope I dont see your hand raised shock_Xe , so from that small experiment i can devise that perhap's we the owners of the said vehicles are maybe just perhaps in a better position to comment on the price's they bought there Cupra R's for !

Ohh yeah and if you think slamming a Cupra on the deck with Big wheels on low profiles and expect it to handle as good if not better than a R you are wrong my friend .

Seat-Sport didn't spend a lot of time and money on developing a car which would be both comfortable on the motorway and yet razer sharp on a back road !

When was the last time you drove a Max'd car which was bearable on any F_ckin road .

Do you think im biased , My last car was running 17's droped on Koni's all round and lets just say when compared to the R it was less than sh_t hot.

The Cupra R wasn't a big seller at £18,000 due to compitition such as the Civic type R ( Beast ) and of course the clio 172 which to be fair is a better package all round than the Cupra R . Bargains where to be had and when the price's where reduced to under £15K and there still is .......

.....so get your wallet out Shock_Xe , you wont get a better car at the price :cool:

Shock_Xe

03-04-2002, 22:20

ok hairy muff, but i've seen a y reg cupra for £11k and a y reg cupra r for £14.5k at rylands seat. So can u say that its honestly worth another £3.5k and another 2 years of debt for something that in comparison is slightly better. And yes i have had a maxed car (Got one aty the moment dropped, upgraded breaks new bumpers/spoiler/vents/stainless etc etc)

Crofter

03-04-2002, 23:12

And yes i have had a maxed car

Congratulation's , Im pleased for you however I never asked you if you did and in regard to the R shop about there is better deals out there mate.

Shock_Xe

03-04-2002, 23:36

oh yeah...sorry neway how much u paying on insurance??? cause its like 2 groups higher?? if u dont mind me asking....

Crofter

03-04-2002, 23:48

Just under £1300 per/year , 3 years no claims , 23 , but magistrate choose to relieve me of my licence due to silly driving hence my premium.

One thing to bear in mind is that if you bought a standard cupra and modifed to the R spec would it be less than the 2 gropus of difference ? Doubt it :(

Shock_Xe

04-04-2002, 08:07

would i tell insurance about modifications????? "Urrrrrm It was like that when i bought it honest! I thought that is how they were!!!"

DaveP

04-04-2002, 08:39

When they are refusing to pay up just because somebody opening their garage door has left their keys in the ignition and the car was nicked - I don't fancy your chances...

ibizacupra

04-04-2002, 08:42

Originally posted by Shock_Xe
ok hairy muff, but i've seen a y reg cupra for £11k and a y reg cupra r for £14.5k at rylands seat. So can u say that its honestly worth another £3.5k and another 2 years of debt for something that in comparison is slightly better. And yes i have had a maxed car (Got one aty the moment dropped, upgraded breaks new bumpers/spoiler/vents/stainless etc etc)

£14.5K for a Y plate R....
You can get a new 02 registration one for that money now... according to Amethyst.

Prices seem a bit off to me.

regards
Bill

redcupra

04-04-2002, 08:45

You have both spoken about the insurance comparing the R and a modified Cupra, from my experience it really does pay to find a company that is a real specialist in the field of vehicle you are looking at. For example before I purchased my RSD210 Cupra I looked at the standard cupra, and the R, and got quotes accordingly, now my insurance on my modified car is just over £500.00 a year fully comp, protected no claims etc, etc, with the same modified specialist, the standard cupra was £300.00 extra and the R took my quote to over £1000.00 !!!!!!!! the reasoning is simple, if a car is modified then generally it makes that vehicle more unique, with a company like Adrian Flux they do not grade a modified car in a group, they work out its theft value! and guess what, because it is more unique, they have less records to compare it to, i.e Impreza Turbo, get stolen all the time making it a bigger "risk" even though it is a standard car!

I have always owned modified vehicles, and on the whole my insyrance has always, and I mean always been cheaper than the standard vehicle, IF you go to the right company to start with!

davemcgo

04-04-2002, 10:56

OK Shock XE - I have obviously mis-judged the price of the standard Cupra, but when I went looking at Cupra's, it was gonna be £13k brand spanking. Then I saw the black type R there for £14,488. Do you think I made the right choice?? Ask me any day of the week and I'll tell you the same thing.
"I'd rather buy the car with everything already done, than have to start modding a brand new motor (by this I mean brakes, suspension etc...)"

I could go out tomorrow and get a chip and intercooler without having to worry about uprating other parts first. How much do you think you'd need to spend on a standard Cupra before taking the power up over 200bhp? A few quid anyway....

I'd also like to point out that my FC insurance for the Cupra R (£820) is exactly £20 more than I was paying TPFT on my last car - 1988 VW Scirocco. Work that one out......

If you really wanted to add the various bits and pieces together, I'd say you've underestimated the values (i.e gauges are £300 - not £100) and the Brembo's aren't just pads - they're 4-pot calipers on there too mate. You're looking at close to a grand easy for them. I can't be arsed to go through the rest of the bits, but I reckon you should be able to see why we got an R instead now - yeah?

Shock_Xe

04-04-2002, 14:59

Originally posted by blackcupra
You have both spoken about the insurance comparing the R and a modified Cupra, from my experience it really does pay to find a company that is a real specialist in the field of vehicle you are looking at. For example before I purchased my RSD210 Cupra I looked at the standard cupra, and the R, and got quotes accordingly, now my insurance on my modified car is just over £500.00 a year fully comp, protected no claims etc, etc, with the same modified specialist, the standard cupra was £300.00 extra and the R took my quote to over £1000.00 !!!!!!!! the reasoning is simple, if a car is modified then generally it makes that vehicle more unique, with a company like Adrian Flux they do not grade a modified car in a group, they work out its theft value! and guess what, because it is more unique, they have less records to compare it to, i.e Impreza Turbo, get stolen all the time making it a bigger "risk" even though it is a standard car!

I have always owned modified vehicles, and on the whole my insyrance has always, and I mean always been cheaper than the standard vehicle, IF you go to the right company to start with!

Hmmm i had shit experience with adrian flux i currently have a maxed car and my insurance is £1100 fully comp with all mods declared, adrian flux wanted £2500 fully comp... f*>k that

Shock_Xe

04-04-2002, 15:02

Originally posted by davemcgo
OK Shock XE - I have obviously mis-judged the price of the standard Cupra, but when I went looking at Cupra's, it was gonna be £13k brand spanking. Then I saw the black type R there for £14,488. Do you think I made the right choice?? Ask me any day of the week and I'll tell you the same thing.
"I'd rather buy the car with everything already done, than have to start modding a brand new motor (by this I mean brakes, suspension etc...)"

I could go out tomorrow and get a chip and intercooler without having to worry about uprating other parts first. How much do you think you'd need to spend on a standard Cupra before taking the power up over 200bhp? A few quid anyway....

I'd also like to point out that my FC insurance for the Cupra R (£820) is exactly £20 more than I was paying TPFT on my last car - 1988 VW Scirocco. Work that one out......

If you really wanted to add the various bits and pieces together, I'd say you've underestimated the values (i.e gauges are £300 - not £100) and the Brembo's aren't just pads - they're 4-pot calipers on there too mate. You're looking at close to a grand easy for them. I can't be arsed to go through the rest of the bits, but I reckon you should be able to see why we got an R instead now - yeah?

true, true.... insurance is an extra £300 for me that takes it to £1560.. bit pricey... aint seen many cupra R's but compared to cupra's they are still relitivley expensive but they are a limited edition..... so its the old saying "6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other"

davemcgo

04-04-2002, 15:08

so its the old saying "6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other"
A personal favourite of mine ;)

Again - I reckon the R is worth every extra penny (if only for the brakes), and with it being a limited run - here's hoping the price will hold a bit better that the Cupra when selling time comes along (a while yet).

So - if you're seriously looking at the Ibiza - I'd carefully consider the R before handing over your hard earned...

t18con

04-04-2002, 19:17

:devil: polo owner here(about to start 18t conversion). ive been keeping an eye on all the 18t websites trying to gain as much info as possible. dont know if this is true of european spec 18ts but this is the yank view: the 180bhp version is fitted with a hybrid turbo and puts out more than 180 brake. vw actually downtuned it by putting a more restrictive downpipe on compared to 150. the cars were still putting too much h.p. so they were termed 180 to slot halfway between 150 and 225 but in reality the cars are putting out nearer 200 bhp. in the yank case that would have put the 2002 spec gti(180bhp) too close to the 4motion(the 4motion costing 3k more!)so they were termed 180 and not 200!:devil:

Crofter

04-04-2002, 20:30

I understand redman , however visually when compareing the 180 Leon engine and the cupra R engine they appear to be different. The side at which the arir enters the plenum chamber size revered on the R and I belive it to be a different tubo etc.

I supspect that it is a remaped ECU more than anything else . However I have been wrong in the past ...... It was a Tuesday :D

Shock_Xe

05-04-2002, 14:08

just found out the difference from apr europe... chipping company read below:

Sorry but that is actually a mistake on our website and literature, The Cupra R is also 1 Bar and the power is no different to the Cupra.

The Cupra R in Factory trim only has a software change to give the 180bhp and as you say there is no other mechanical difference.

We use a 1 Bar configuration to keep the Turbo and ancillaries working well within their capabilities and therefore cause no undue stress or premature failure.

I am not sure when you intend to have the chip install but we are now booking from Monday 15th April onwards.

Thanks for your enquiry,

Regards,

Richard.

Technical Manager-APR Europe

Mark Yates

Director of APR Europe Limited

www.apreurope.com