View Full Version : AMD chip?
i guy's, what are you say on the AMD chip for the 20vt?.
or what chip do you recomend?
CambridgeBlue
10-04-2002, 13:48
Hi
I had my Cupra remapped by AMD, very pleased with the service and the results.
M
CustardCupra
10-04-2002, 15:44
Originally posted by eyco
i guy's, what are you say on the AMD chip for the 20vt?.
or what chip do you recomend?
Had mine done @ AMD 193BHP , 232 Torque .
Very good service , very proffesional and good customer relations.:)
Jools
CambridgeBlue
10-04-2002, 15:51
Jools is that a Leon or a Ibiza 20VT?
I agree very good professional service, Scott is a really nice guy. From what I've read on here they seem a little more expensive than some places but I'm happy with the work they've done for me, and I think it was good value.
Mark
Mark,
What do you think about the ride quality now you've had the Koni Adjustables and ARB fitted - harsher? firmer but tolerable? about the same as the standard setup?
The reason I ask is that I've played around with suspension before (my current car - Cav GSi - has Bilstein non-adjustables with H&R springs) and have never been truly satisfied with the ride quality. I know there's a trade-off between handling and comfort, but my Cav now tends to be harsher over bumps as it get older (kit now 3yrs old).
Last thing - was it not worth fitting an Eiback ARB to the rear?
Cheers,
Gaff.
CambridgeBlue
10-04-2002, 17:03
Hi Gaff
At the moment the konis are set up, half a turn on the back and front, the quality of ride is about the same really, maybe a fraction firmer, but handles infinitely better. I was going to upgrade the springs as well, but Scott at AMD recomeneded that it would be too harsh a ride if I did, apparently the springs on the Leon are firmer than the Golf or A3 (don't know how true this is) so it is not necessary.
I only have the standard 16 wheel so this probably help the ride quality
Mark
I recomend the APR chip! I had mine done at www.starperformance.co.uk in Glenrothes Scotland, But APR is a world wide company. AS you can see below the torq and bhp are great. Look at the apr v the ottenger chip forum!:devil:
Anyone got an APR'd Leon Cupra? I'd be interested in some kind of APR vs AMD on a Leon Cupra comparision :D
I've read the results of the APR vs Oet. chip on a Ibiza 20VT - do we have anything similar for APR vs ??? on a Leon?
Peter
PS: anyone got any dyno plots of the APR? That would help!
Main (and major) difference between the APR & AmD chips are the shape of the torque curve & therefore how it drives
the AmD chip will produce a similar graph to the Oettinger graph (with a big spike then lower torque) - extenuating the std setup
The APR chip has been altered to feel more like a bigger capacity engine (that's how it felt to me). no sudden kick up the arse - just a heck of a lot of speed, very quickly.
also the APR has the switchable option via a cruise contol stalk.
Speak to ZBOYD about it - he has APR now.
CambridgeBlue
11-04-2002, 13:40
Well I'm afraid I have to disagree with the 'big spike then lower torque' of an AmD torque curve, mine has no such thing, and they specifically map them so they don't do this, just progressive power. I will try and post my plots if I can get hold of a scanner. From the plots on the apr website it looks like there's a significant roll off in torque after 4000rpm, I can't remember if mine is like this, but I don't think so, but it might just be because of scaling! However the APR curves do seem a bit too smooth and are probably just for a guide line
I'm not saying anything bad about APR, on the contrary, from what I've heard they provide a quality service and people are well happy.
Basically I think the performance will be very similar, however APR do offer the addition features but at the cost of replacing and installing new HW, so there's an issue with warranty. However what I liked about AmD was that there is no HW change only SW, which is alot more difficult to detect when it come to warranty issues! the SW is also encrypted so can't be viewed or altered by a third party,
I think it comes down to personel preference at the end of the day, plus also what plays a major factor is where you live? i.e. if I'd of lived in Scotland then I would of gone down the APR road.
There just my thought but are probably b*llocks!
Mark
Are you saying that you believe they left your chip alone and reprogrammed it? What H/W do APR install? You already have cruise fitted. All the issues that surround APR apply to AmD - do they not?
CambridgeBlue
11-04-2002, 14:12
I don't 'believe' they left my chip alone they did leave it alone! they just reprogrammed the EPROM on the fly (RR) and made sure the address check sum was OK so the ECU was happy.
I'm not sure what APR do exactly as I haven't had it done, if I have got it wrong then I apologise but it implies on there there web site that they change the chip, that's all I was saying
ibizacupra
11-04-2002, 14:23
Originally posted by CambridgeBlue
Well I'm afraid I have to disagree with the 'big spike then lower torque' of an AmD torque curve, mine has no such thing, and they specifically map them so they don't do this, just progressive power. I will try and post my plots if I can get hold of a scanner. From the plots on the apr website it looks like there's a significant roll off in torque after 4000rpm, I can't remember if mine is like this, but I don't think so, but it might just be because of scaling! However the APR curves do seem a bit too smooth and are probably just for a guide line
I'm not saying anything bad about APR, on the contrary, from what I've heard they provide a quality service and people are well happy.
Basically I think the performance will be very similar, however APR do offer the addition features but at the cost of replacing and installing new HW, so there's an issue with warranty. However what I liked about AmD was that there is no HW change only SW, which is alot more difficult to detect when it come to warranty issues! the SW is also encrypted so can't be viewed or altered by a third party,
I think it comes down to personel preference at the end of the day, plus also what plays a major factor is where you live? i.e. if I'd of lived in Scotland then I would of gone down the APR road.
There just my thought but are probably b*llocks!
Mark
Check out some real dyno's on a real car.
Tests were on my own Ibiza 20VT at Stealth Racing.
Comparison of Oettinger vs APR.
Interesting results.
http://www.badger-5.go-plus.net/images/apr-oettinger.jpg
http://www.badger-5.go-plus.net/images/apr-oettinger-torque.jpg
No modifying of results... just as performed.
Smoother and longer torque delivery from APR.
regards
Bill
CambridgeBlue
11-04-2002, 14:27
Wow that's a big spike you have Bill!
Mine have roughly the same profile as your APR one. I will try and post it soon, been meaning to do it but a house move stalled the scanner hunt
Mark
CustardCupra
11-04-2002, 15:24
Originally posted by CambridgeBlue
Wow that's a big spike you have Bill!
Mine have roughly the same profile as your APR one. I will try and post it soon, been meaning to do it but a house move stalled the scanner hunt
Mark Have to disagree with the Big spike theory as well. Bill posted up my power graphs for allto see. My AMD Torque curve is also very similar to APR ,
JOOLS:devil:
OK - don't shoot me - the only AmD chipped car I have driven (and saw the plot after it was run up) had similar characteristics to the Oettinger one.
Prolly find that Geoff refined the program?
AmD got some good reviews in CCC on a journo's TT - good back up etc and warrantee & also R&D work (like the cover for the ECU & the inner hose on the TT)
Thanks for the info (I hope no-one thinks I'm highjacking the thread!)
I was interested in if anyone had done a direct comparision, like Bill has with his Ibiza; of say APR vs Oet vs AMD, with all else being equal (car, RR etc), but on a Leon Cupra.
ZBoyd has the APR chip, but then also has other mods, whilst still useful to see Zboyd's dyno plot, it would be extremely helpful to me (seeing as I'm a picky b*stard!) if we could get close to just directly comparing the chipping differences. Maybe this hasn't been done yet by anyone on a Leon...but it would be good to try and eliminate as many differences as possible.
Thus far:
- APR and AMD seem to offer very good customer service
- AMD seem to do a tailored RR remap of your car, whereas APR have a one size fits all replacement (I think this is correct!). Not sure if this is good or bad....
- both offer cruise control, but APR offer some more features (switchable programs).
So final piece of the jigsaw (for me!) is a dyno plot comparision, and then its time to figure out how much to spend, and what features to pay for!
So........at the expense of being flamed: "I've posted them on the forums before!" it would be useful to perhaps have a dyno plot picture post section on the front of SeatCupra.net, as these things tend to get lost through the midst of time amoungst posts like mine!
Peter
ibizacupra
11-04-2002, 16:24
Originally posted by CambridgeBlue
I don't 'believe' they left my chip alone they did leave it alone! they just reprogrammed the EPROM on the fly (RR) and made sure the address check sum was OK so the ECU was happy.
I'm not sure what APR do exactly as I haven't had it done, if I have got it wrong then I apologise but it implies on there there web site that they change the chip, that's all I was saying
These are'nt "Flash" Eproms are they? - Not programmable on line.
Remove old device, fit socket
Run on emulator and map.
Commit program to new Eprom, fit new device into socket. Done.
Or something like that?
regards
Bill
That's it - the ECU does have to come out (or it did on Dave's)
ibizacupra
11-04-2002, 16:39
Originally posted by PeterS
So........at the expense of being flamed: "I've posted them on the forums before!" it would be useful to perhaps have a dyno plot picture post section on the front of SeatCupra.net, as these things tend to get lost through the midst of time amoungst posts like mine!
Peter
They have... its here>> http://www.seatcars.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=50
regards
Bill
Err... thanks - I should have made myself clearer. I meant a section perhaps away from the forums, like
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/ ..then click on "Dynomite Scoobies".
The prob with having it on the forum is they get kinda lost....maybe I'm just being pedantic....
Peter
CustardCupra
11-04-2002, 20:15
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Check out some real dyno's on a real car.
Tests were on my own Ibiza 20VT at Stealth Racing.
Comparison of Oettinger vs APR.
Interesting results.
http://www.badger-5.go-plus.net/images/apr-oettinger.jpg
http://www.badger-5.go-plus.net/images/apr-oettinger-torque.jpg
No modifying of results... just as performed.
Smoother and longer torque delivery from APR.
regards
Bill Hi Bill , when you say "real dyno's on a real car " are you refering to the correction factor (DIN 70020 ) that is used by tuning company to get a higher figure , if so my own car only made 184 BHP instead of the quoted 193 BHP.
How many other chipped cars by different tuners have had this equation applied ??????
What is the true output 184 or 193 ?????
Jools
:confused:
ibizacupra
11-04-2002, 21:59
Originally posted by jools
Hi Bill , when you say "real dyno's on a real car " are you refering to the correction factor (DIN 70020 ) that is used by tuning company to get a higher figure , if so my own car only made 184 BHP instead of the quoted 193 BHP.
How many other chipped cars by different tuners have had this equation applied ??????
What is the true output 184 or 193 ?????
Jools
:confused:
Real dynos and real car is meant results as recorded on he same rollers on the same car, any corrections if applied are against both type of chip tuners, with the tests carried out under the same conditions.
We all see website power curves that look oh so smooth, and yet don't really do that in a real installation.
Look at the APR power and torque curves and they are representations of results. However theirs do match reality. Compare those to for example the chip I actually have installed at the moment, and their posted power curves. Not the same.
regards
Bill
ibizacupra
11-04-2002, 22:01
Originally posted by PeterS
Err... thanks - I should have made myself clearer. I meant a section perhaps away from the forums, like
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/ ..then click on "Dynomite Scoobies".
The prob with having it on the forum is they get kinda lost....maybe I'm just being pedantic....
Peter
Oh right I see.
Your right.. :D
How about making them all sticky then Martyn? anyone?
regards
Bill
yer...sticky is a good idea :D
hopkinsgm
11-04-2002, 23:34
Originally posted by PeterS
yer...sticky is a good idea :D
I know some of you lot get excited by dyno plots, but... eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww! :devil:
G
Yes i would not take every dyno readout as gospal. As someone else has allready mentioned I believe that there could be some dynos which are lets say more acurate than others .
An example of this is that your Jap 1000BHP Skylines would stuggle to keep up with a 700 BHP ( Shown on a UK Dyno ) due to the atual way that the dyno calculates how powerfull the car is different over here.
A resent example of this is that as a standard R ( DaveMcGo's at Star performance a month or so back ) managed well over the 180BHP which it must have . Now you are not going to tell me the the cars are producing more than 180 BHP are you ? I think the chances are that the dyno might be slightly out but hey I could be wrong !
Just I hear this from every other forum im on about how many RR 's are a not measuring acuratly.
ibizacupra
12-04-2002, 08:28
Originally posted by hopkinsgm
I know some of you lot get excited by dyno plots, but... eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww! :devil:
G Dyno plots done on the same dyno on the same day in VAG friendly side mount intercooler fans, at a VAG specialist are the only way of seeing whats actually doing what.
Claims are plentyful, reality can be very different.
The choice will be dependant on many things, with the dyno only being one of them I suspect.
Other factors in the choice mix likely to be:-
Price
Features
Warranty
Customer Service
Power
Reputation
Technical Support and Understanding of ther product sold
Best to try before you buy. Where there are demo cars, they should be tried for real to support the dyno data and power claims. Figures are a guide, but driving experience is more real.
Been there - Done that...
Bill
All points valid - dyno's still v useful though especially when all else is equal etc. When all else is not equal, they are still useful as a guage to the kind of delivery you get (ie boost spikes etc.)
Last call.....anyone got any APR plots for Leon?
:cheers:
In my oppinion you'd be hard pushed to beat the Jabbasport chip, especially on price and power. The knowledge and service is 1st rate and the chip mapped to suit you and your car.
PeterS, as you are in Cambs you are only a few miles away, as they are 10mins from Peterborough.
Bill
Have you anymore info on RR session at Jabbasport?
Do you know how Mike's getting on with 4WD roller setup?
hmmm local eh? Ok worth consideration! So....add Jabbasport to the request!
Anyone got a Jabbasport dyno plot for the Leon?
:cheers:
Have you talked to APR?
I know they should have one as they RR'd Z's Leon with the chip
M
Originally posted by PeterS
Last call.....anyone got any APR plots for Leon?
Nope...not talked to anyone yet. Still have to get my motor...then run it in b4 I plan to get anything done.
Regs
Peter
Jabba Sport ........... Nuff said!
Si
hopkinsgm
12-04-2002, 14:00
Didn't mean to open a whole can of worms about the validity of dyno plots with my post last night - it was just a stupid comment about boys getting excited and bits of paper getting sticky...
Yes, if tested on same car on same RR under same conditions then you can compare plot against plot as you've only changed only one control variable - that being the chip (which I know changes many factors...). If this is not the case, a dyno plot can be used to give an idea as to the general 'shape' of the power delivery and to give a ballpark idea of expected output, but that's about all.
G
Originally posted by CupraSi
Jabba Sport ........... Nuff said!
Si
:D :D :D :D :D
:cheers:
This is a Dutch tuner who has much experience with tuning impreza's.
For about 8 months he started with his own manufactured software for the 1.8 20VT engine (Leon and Ibiza)
He drives an Leon 20VT himself........
It's in dutch but i hope it's clear to you all.
If anyone got some questions feel free to ask them.
Cuprasport2000
12-04-2002, 18:39
Goku,
I can't open that link, do you have the website for them?
It's not a link but a bmp file.
You just have to save the zip file and after that you will see a bmp file.
Cuprasport2000
12-04-2002, 18:49
Looks pretty good. Any idea of price for a 20VT ibiza?
Groete,
Sean.
Ha ha ha know a little bit dutch???
I will have mine done next week.
For the ibiza it's 725 Euro that's 439 pond.
that's including vat and 12 months of guarentee.
Cuprasport2000
12-04-2002, 19:53
Let us know how you get on after the car has been done. Good to see so many places tuning the 1.8T motor. We are spoiled for choice! Can understand Dutch but not very good at speaking it!
That's for sure.........
By the way how much is 1 lbs/ft in NM ???
Do you often come to Holland ???
Because you can undertand a bit Dutch........or ???