View Full Version : new FMIC on - phew!
ibizacupra
19-12-2004, 18:37
Fitted new core off Adam (AM Motorsport boys) today..
What a blummin job.. you know the ones.. little job turns into bigger an bigger job.. LOL Glad the weather was friendly..
Started 10.30 finished 5.30 in the dark :drool:
Knackered.
Some pics of the install and comparison on previous core ~(std FMIC core AM offer)
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-2.jpg
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-3.jpg
comparison on size and end tank designs
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-1.jpg
diagonal slam panel braces are removed, but this leaves slam panel without enough stiffness and would cause bonnet closure probs and lift @ speed.
New section of 25mm box section bolted across from headlamp surround to other surround which acts as both brace for panel, but also mount for FMIC and brace for slam panel.
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-4.jpg
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-5.jpg
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-6.jpg
Bumper needed hacking about even more so now no honey combe mesh remains.. and the rear was ground off repeatedly until the bumper fitted without being stressed into place.
Initial road test showed a difference in boost level, which may be ecu having to learn different airflows again. Max boost level has fallen :confused: which I was'nt sure about.. but could be controller have a "working" moment. No logs or anything, but intake side of end tank was warm to touch, wheres outlet end tank was stone cold after some ragging on full boost.
Disconencted ecu so tomorrow will do TBA and see what it thinks of its new airflow.
Glad you know how it all goes back together, still cutting the bumper and grill more will make her lighter ;)
Even though I know it's BIG, the *little* AM Fmic, looks dinky.
is that an Air Con rad I can still see behind that?
ibizacupra
19-12-2004, 19:25
Even though I know it's BIG, the *little* AM Fmic, looks dinky.
is that an Air Con rad I can still see behind that?
Yea m8 it is... almost ripped it off.. almost!
I need some more room really... airflow to radiator is on my mind at the moment..
Ducting needed to shroud airflow I think..
job for another day.
Kev's done a proper job before me.. no a/c and made space to get FMIC done.
I am guessing this core is EVO type sizing from what I've seen so should be adequate for me now and future. Ibiza packaging is a 'mare. Too small a package and everything is touching everything. Nightmare city.
End tank on inlet has deflector plate inside to help distribute air to top cores. Airflow measurements showed an increase from approx 120cfm to 147cfm on previous core and end tank design. (figures are maybe give or take a bit.. Senior moment.. and memory fades.) - Addo or Mike can correct my memory when they read this.
Air con rad was easy peasy to get rid of. - I can lie to you & tell you it's heavy :)
makes a pretty cloud too...
ibizacupra
19-12-2004, 19:31
Air con rad was easy peasy to get rid of. - I can lie to you & tell you it's heavy :)
makes a pretty cloud too...
LOL.. compressor weighs a bit.. Got a couple here form other 1.8T motors I've collected of late.
I am stil amazed at what I'm doing to me car... bought new and here I am ripping and grinding bits off it.. Something I could never bring myself to do on a £1600 Jetta 16v! DOH!
Its me age I swear it is. Sinelity is creaping in. :hide:
Yea m8 it is... almost ripped it off.. almost!
I need some more room really... airflow to radiator is on my mind at the moment..
Ducting needed to shroud airflow
Thats the 1st thing i thought. Air flow to rad. Nothing a bit of trialing wont sort out.
ibizacupra
19-12-2004, 19:44
Will be getting a different shape front number plate too. EVO stylee... (seem to have a bit of an EVO thing these days don't I... :p - Must keep taking the pills!)
"Evo Time" Anyone ever see the vid of the guy in his Rs Escort (modded) handing a spanking out to an Evo going down a dual c. The Escort guy shouts out with delight "Evo time Lets get the bastid" in a southen Accent it cracks me up. I had noticed u turning a little to the dark side Bill. Fmic looks go though. Should do the bizz for vf22.
ibizacupra
19-12-2004, 20:37
i'm turning japanese I think I'm turning japanese, I really think so.................
i'm turning japanese I think I'm turning japanese, I really think so.................
lyrics which popped into me head...
I need help!
I have to admit i seriously considered an Evo6 in the summer. I have had some time driving Evo's and yes the grips fannytastic. But they draw to much attention. My de-badged ibiza cupra with 344bhp does the job nicely. And i found the evo's lacking in straight line grunt. It will be intresting to see how the new fmic does it looks the bizz.
max_torque
19-12-2004, 22:50
Blimey Bill, you sure thats large enough???
Looks like i'll have to make do with my ickle one. (although spotters out there will notice the proper end tank design and wiggins connectors!)
space is a luxury you have with a mid engined setup :D
i like the "dukes of hazard "horn set up paul :)
cpufreak
20-12-2004, 00:54
interesting comments in regards airflow to radiator...been forced into doing a bit of research of my own recently - the new ibiza cupra (which has a fmic) has a different (higher) spec radiator to that on lesser ibizas...which is something other people with fabia vRS's or ibiza's who are planning on fitting the cupra FMIC should think about...
looks nice (fooking huge) bill. Looking forward to seeing the results. Hope the additional size isn't gonna cause too much boost drop or lag for you....
ibizacupra
20-12-2004, 08:05
Blimey Bill, you sure thats large enough???
Looks like i'll have to make do with my ickle one. (although spotters out there will notice the proper end tank design and wiggins connectors!)
Your core looks nice and deep.. deeper than mine :)
End tanks are cool.. :D
Mine are'nt too bad either... much better than previous incarnation, with internal flow deflector too :)
Hoping it proves adequate... cos it will have to be.. no more space. LOL
ibizacupra
20-12-2004, 08:06
interesting comments in regards airflow to radiator...been forced into doing a bit of research of my own recently - the new ibiza cupra (which has a fmic) has a different (higher) spec radiator to that on lesser ibizas...which is something other people with fabia vRS's or ibiza's who are planning on fitting the cupra FMIC should think about...
looks nice (fooking huge) bill. Looking forward to seeing the results. Hope the additional size isn't gonna cause too much boost drop or lag for you....
I can report no more lag that I can tell.
Power is difficult to determin at the moment as is boost.... keeps wheel spinning :roflmao:
Shock_Xe
20-12-2004, 08:59
Cool glad it all went on ok, I like the bar you made bill :thumbup: yum, may have to adopt that myself, good idea
It does make the 10 core look small doesnt it, but then you compare this:
http://www.am-motorsport.co.uk/mambo/images/zoom/VQYGMP/ibiza-am-comparison.jpg
one that bill took previously, puts it all in perspective how big the new core actually is
Flow rates on the 10 core were 112cfm on 10 core and 147cfm on new core, (LCR one was 135cfm @ 15core) The first 17core which i have was 127cfm (smaller 1 piece end tanks)
Hopefully there will be a good increase in performance/cooling seen as this is pretty much as good as its gonna get with removing/cutting a whole lot more bits!!!
any pics with the bumper on??
Adam didnt need as much cutting as you bill, although i think this may be because he cut the center bar out of the bumper a while ago
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-4.jpg
Shock_Xe
20-12-2004, 09:18
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-4.jpg
lol!!!
Wouldnt of liked to tidy that lot up
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-4.jpg
I see im not the only one to scatter all ones tools all over the place :)
"wheres that 10mm spanner, Oh im sitting on it :redface: "
ibizacupra
20-12-2004, 12:28
Cool glad it all went on ok, I like the bar you made bill :thumbup: yum, may have to adopt that myself, good idea
It does make the 10 core look small doesnt it, but then you compare this:
http://www.am-motorsport.co.uk/mambo/images/zoom/VQYGMP/ibiza-am-comparison.jpg
one that bill took previously, puts it all in perspective how big the new core actually is
Flow rates on the 10 core were 112cfm on 10 core and 147cfm on new core, (LCR one was 135cfm @ 15core) The first 17core which i have was 127cfm (smaller 1 piece end tanks)
Hopefully there will be a good increase in performance/cooling seen as this is pretty much as good as its gonna get with removing/cutting a whole lot more bits!!!
any pics with the bumper on??
Adam didnt need as much cutting as you bill, although i think this may be because he cut the center bar out of the bumper a while ago
Remember my bumper support bit the dust at Adams place on the original FMIC install. :D
Cut away the diaganol braces and the bonnet catch is left flapping in the breaze.. Not something I would relish when doing 160mph! LOL
Pipework fit was awkward on the inlet side to outlet side.. and bumper needed serious grinding away to clear the inlet hose and end tank.. Does'nt sit centrally in the hole as outlet pipework prevents it moving further.
On there now, and cross beam worked out well for both support of bonnet catch and FMIC mounting lugs.
ibizacupra
20-12-2004, 12:41
Golfys FMIC just before I sold the car.. Big old core, 80mm deep too.
Good route for pipe run I thought.
Easy to move radiator stack back 50mm to make space. Minimal bumper trimming req'd on it. BIG core.
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/Golf4-fmic.jpg
max_torque
20-12-2004, 14:00
i like the "dukes of hazard "horn set up paul :)
Well, as my 'bitza is gonna be SO much faster than all the other cars that go out on stage before me, i thought i'd better have a nice loud horn to "remind" then to "Get the F**K outta my way!" :roflmao:
My I/c core is fairly deep in section, normally this would not be as good as increasing the frontal area (with the coolest airflow being at the front of the core and warming up as it travels through it, a reduction in DeltaT, and hence less heat loss) BUT, with a water sprayed I/c, testing we have done for the scoobies suggests that you can actually improve water usage efficiency with a deep core, because it tends to trap the water longer.
My end caps were designed on GT flow / GT power, an industry std fluid dynamics modeling suite, what you can't see from those frontal pics is the way the cones actually initally reduce in thickness in the horizontal plane, while increasing in width in the vertical plane, maintaining a constant increase in sectional area, and forcing the air to spread out across the core, whilst recovering the dynamic pressure component from the incoming velocity. ( I was astonished at how a tiny change in profile had major effects in the % pressure recovery).
My other consideration was engine cooling, after all something like 30% of engine flywheel power is lost to coolant, and a rally car spends a lot of time going relatively slowly, in a low gear, and often sideways! All of which is rubbish for cooling performance.
Once again it's a game of comprimises!
ibizacupra
20-12-2004, 15:29
http://badger-5.com/bin/intercooler/new-fmic-4.jpg
I see im not the only one to scatter all ones tools all over the place :)
"wheres that 10mm spanner, Oh im sitting on it :redface: "
LOL its jobs like these which progressively gets all me tools out and about...
Got a tool cab coming to help organise me things.. and can work off the top of it then.
Needing more space urgently for this stuff and engines.
Too many sets of wheels hanging around the place..
Takes ages to clear up again.. DOH!
Shock_Xe
20-12-2004, 16:56
Remember my bumper support bit the dust at Adams place on the original FMIC install. :D
Cut away the diaganol braces and the bonnet catch is left flapping in the breaze.. Not something I would relish when doing 160mph! LOL
Pipework fit was awkward on the inlet side to outlet side.. and bumper needed serious grinding away to clear the inlet hose and end tank.. Does'nt sit centrally in the hole as outlet pipework prevents it moving further.
On there now, and cross beam worked out well for both support of bonnet catch and FMIC mounting lugs.
yep all noted, Bear in mind tho we prolly wont release this intercooler due to the hassle for us and the fitters with structural mods, Can affect the road legality of it without the slam panel i think.... but as yours is track use it shouldnt matter.
ibizacupra
21-12-2004, 08:30
yep all noted, Bear in mind tho we prolly wont release this intercooler due to the hassle for us and the fitters with structural mods, Can affect the road legality of it without the slam panel i think.... but as yours is track use it shouldnt matter.
I mentioned it for Adam.. as he's removed the diagonal also has'nt he? You an expert on legality now Mike?
Its not like metalwork does'nt have to be removed as it is... even on the smaller core. For those of nervous disposition and aversion to removing metal off their car... avoid.. LOL
For the rest of us who want no compromise cooling... come join in.. the airs nice and cold.
Slam panel and high speed relys on the bonnet catch.. best to check Adams before Vmax speeds attempted. :thumbup:
You don't need a reinforcer to be road legal
take all you like off the front
Shock_Xe
21-12-2004, 17:42
I mentioned it for Adam.. as he's removed the diagonal also has'nt he? You an expert on legality now Mike?
Its not like metalwork does'nt have to be removed as it is... even on the smaller core. For those of nervous disposition and aversion to removing metal off their car... avoid.. LOL
For the rest of us who want no compromise cooling... come join in.. the airs nice and cold.
Slam panel and high speed relys on the bonnet catch.. best to check Adams before Vmax speeds attempted. :thumbup:
Yes he has removed it, and so will I as i also have a 17core FMIC, Nope Im not an expert on legality nor I claimed to be. Just seemed like comman sense that every car has one fitted from factory so assumed that this is backed up by manufacturing law, after all its not as if its a bracket, its quite important. but hey evryone is allowed to be wrong once in a while without a fuss
RE little core, very little metal work has to be removed in comparison, (probably about 2/3" worth of metal its more dressing of the bumper than anything, unfortunatly the curse of the Ibiza and the tight spaces.
yeah vmax could be a worry if bonnet decides to open at 1**mph
CupraR-Rog
21-12-2004, 20:05
My 2p worth on the cutting of parts out...
May not be any legal issues arising from cutting parts out, but the reason all cars may be fitted with the diagonal beam might be more to do with crash testing on the cars... I've had a structual member replaced on the front of a car, and the only time it was realised the member was bent was when the bonnet couldn't be aligned properly!! One of the works vans didn't have a front member replaced after a front end shunt, and the bonnet ripples above 50mph, and it's bound to fail its 1st MOT due to headlight alignment (the one on the side it had the shunt points pretty much straight down!! :-o)
So, what I'm saying is, cutting the front of the car **might** have an effect in the unlucky event of an accident... what the effect **might** be, well, your guess is as good as mine!! Hopefully there are no bad effects!!
lmao - remind me not to use your bodyshop
if it helps bill - lots of cheap aluminium tubes with a facility to manufacture help to replace em ? ;)
Shock_Xe
21-12-2004, 21:03
lmao - remind me not to use your bodyshop
if it helps bill - lots of cheap aluminium tubes with a facility to manufacture help to replace em ? ;)
looking into a slim line version at the moment
i can safely say my front member is intact
i'm turning japanese I think I'm turning japanese, I really think so.................
i'm turning japanese I think I'm turning japanese, I really think so.................
lyrics which popped into me head...
I need help!
While you're on that thought.....
Time to adapt your Badger 5 TBs to fit my Honda Integra ;)
http://www.evoposters.net/carpics/dolphin_boy_itbs/P1010037.sized.jpg
Pretty please!! :)
marts, that pic makes the tb's look like they're floating mid air :blink:
CupraR-Rog
22-12-2004, 01:16
lmao - remind me not to use your bodyshop
I could go on for ages about the state of some cars (and vans) I've seen leave body shops...
ibizacupra
22-12-2004, 09:11
.... dressing of the bumper than anything, unfortunatly the curse of the Ibiza and the tight spaces.
LMAO... 'Dressing'.. now thats an odd description for bumper trimming.. LOL
Made me smile.
How about you doing a bonnet and wing extension for Ibiza's :D :thumbup:
ibizacupra
22-12-2004, 09:15
My 2p worth on the cutting of parts out...
May not be any legal issues arising from cutting parts out, but the reason all cars may be fitted with the diagonal beam might be more to do with crash testing on the cars... I've had a structual member replaced on the front of a car, and the only time it was realised the member was bent was when the bonnet couldn't be aligned properly!! One of the works vans didn't have a front member replaced after a front end shunt, and the bonnet ripples above 50mph, and it's bound to fail its 1st MOT due to headlight alignment (the one on the side it had the shunt points pretty much straight down!! :-o)
So, what I'm saying is, cutting the front of the car **might** have an effect in the unlucky event of an accident... what the effect **might** be, well, your guess is as good as mine!! Hopefully there are no bad effects!!
In the event of a frontal accident I suspect you will also be crying about the $$ trashed FMIC also... The diagonal is a slam panel support not frontal crash protection. The removed bumper bar is the structural bit for crash protection.
In the ibiza, and frontal impact will ruin the whole radiator stack..
The things we do for mods eh? :)
ibizacupra
22-12-2004, 09:16
if it helps bill - lots of cheap aluminium tubes with a facility to manufacture help to replace em ? ;)
Cheers m8
Will likely do this to improve my setup and planned mods.
cheers :cheers:
ibizacupra
22-12-2004, 09:19
While you're on that thought.....
Time to adapt your Badger 5 TBs to fit my Honda Integra ;)
http://www.evoposters.net/carpics/dolphin_boy_itbs/P1010037.sized.jpg
Pretty please!! :)
easy peasy m8
Manifold; Honda B16 & B18 C5 -SF See flange MH03 £ 180.00
Manifold; Honda B16 & B18 C5 -Twin Bodies See flange MH06 £ 175.00
Manifold; Honda B18 C1 & C4 -SF MH04 £ 180.00
Manifold; Honda S2000 -SF. See flange MH05 £ 195.00
Manifold; Honda K20 -SF. See flange Requires mod to w/pump housing. MH07 £ 180.00
AND
Honda B16 & B18C5 + SFs CKHA01 £ 939.00
Honda B18 C1 & C4 + SFs CKHA02 £ 939.00
Honda B16 & B18 C5 + TBs CKHA03 £ 685.00
Honda S2000 + SFs See Power graph CKHA05 £1022.00
Honda K20 + SFs CKHA07 £1007.00
Which one fits your Integra? Got a choice. :thumbup:
LMAO... 'Dressing'.. now thats an odd description for bumper trimming.. LOL
Made me smile.
How about you doing a bonnet and wing extension for Ibiza's :D :thumbup:
I prefer 'easing the profile'
ibizacupra
22-12-2004, 15:38
with an industrial belt sander and or angle grinder...
Sweet! Bring it On..... :D
Honda B16 & B18 C5 + TBs CKHA03 £ 685.00
Didnt realise they were Jenvey ones....
How much for the mapping etc too? I take it i'll have to flog the unichip and go DTA?
Shock_Xe
22-12-2004, 18:13
LMAO... 'Dressing'.. now thats an odd description for bumper trimming.. LOL
Made me smile.
How about you doing a bonnet and wing extension for Ibiza's :D :thumbup:
its a nicer way of saying hack the feck out of the bumper ;)
ibizacupra
22-12-2004, 20:08
Honda B16 & B18 C5 + TBs CKHA03 £ 685.00
Didnt realise they were Jenvey ones....
How much for the mapping etc too? I take it i'll have to flog the unichip and go DTA?
If your unichip is reprogrammable you might be able to reuse it.. alternative being something stand alone like DTA tho yea.
Jenvey quote some big gains on the S2000 motor on their new bodies..
I am a Jenvey dealer after all.
Prices are +vat but we could work something out I dare say ;)
Bill, the unichip is reprogrammable but isnt there a few extra sensors with the ITBs?
Can you drop me a mail with some more details as this is something i'm definately interested in doing next year....
Cheers bud.
P.S My friend Matt with the 1.8T Golf is still awaiting a call back from you ;)
ibizacupra
23-12-2004, 08:55
Bill, the unichip is reprogrammable but isnt there a few extra sensors with the ITBs?
Can you drop me a mail with some more details as this is something i'm definately interested in doing next year....
Cheers bud.
P.S My friend Matt with the 1.8T Golf is still awaiting a call back from you ;)
Your friend Matt? (EAK... something I've forgotten?? can you remind me m8? Westover Matt? If so, I'm due down to autoT early in the new year to collect a 16v Scirocco I bought)
No extra sensors with ITB's mate... just throttle pot, which you would have now. Does your car have an airflow meter now? T'bodies would need a plenum and intake added if so so air can be metered in.. Extra bits but these can be got.
would need to see if your existing injectors would fit the t'bodies or other ones needed..
Bill
New FMIC looks nice Bill. Hope the results are good in the long run. Seems like it was a mare to fit.
I'm gonna stick with my Chargecooler for now. Its working amazingly well. Even after a trackday session the water is ambient temperature..... ie. there is no noticable heatsoak at all. I think this could be partially down to the cores not exchanging enough heat with the water though, so some more cores may be in order, which in turn may require a bigger pre-rad.
How do you intend getting more air to the FMIC as much of it is behind the rag plate etc? I guess the clue is in the fact that you are getting an Evo style number plate, so I guess you are cutting a big hole in the front?
Ben