View Full Version : Ibiza suspension and braking question
ibizacupra
23-09-2001, 18:55
I have a question for you Ibiza cupra guys here.
How many of you have different suspension fitted to your cars, especially those of you with ABS/TCS systems on the 20VT?
How many of you have modified brakes?
I am interested to know your feelings on the cars handling with respect to the ABS coming in, and its effect on the cars stability, particularly on an undulating road.
Is it me, or does the TCS system cut the boost down to 5psi even when its switched off? (whats the point in having an off switch if it does'nt switch off!)
My own car is an RSD210 supplied through Amethyst, and as such has the EBC/Tarox front brakes and the Oettinger engine upgrade parts.
Any of you guys been on track with your Ibiza Cupra 20VT's and encountered these moments?
It is quick in a straight line, sure, but give it a corner and............. be very careful. It bites.
I am not a happy bunny at all.
Very dissapointing (other than the power delivery - and even that is ruined by the TCS/ECU system shutting boost down to 5psi for no good reason!!!!)
EBC pads are not recommended either.
Pagid fast road pads are far superior and last longer and in G60 VW format are actually the right ones for the caliper, unlike the EBC's. (19.6mm G60 vs 15.6mm EBC)
Bill
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/frown.gif
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http://www.badger5.co.uk
Petrolhead Paul
23-09-2001, 23:07
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>EBC pads are not recommended either.
Pagid fast road pads are far superior and last longer and in G60 VW format are actually the right ones for the caliper, unlike the EBC's. (19.6mm G60 vs 15.6mm EBC)
Bill
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/frown.gif
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Bill, are you experiencing fade with the Greenstuffs then? They are certainly better than the standard crap, but with 200+bhp they are going to be pushed hard.
Was thinking about Redstuff but people have said they don't bite as effectively as Greens or O.E. pads at low temps - so are best off for track use only.
Not sure how Tarox pads compare to the others.
Chungster had Pagids on his with standard discs, which stood up OK to a track day but I don't think he's had tried his Tarox/Greenstuff combo on a track yet.
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ibizacupra
24-09-2001, 12:13
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Petrolhead Paul:
Bill, are you experiencing fade with the Greenstuffs then? They are certainly better than the standard crap, but with 200+bhp they are going to be pushed hard.
Was thinking about Redstuff but people have said they don't bite as effectively as Greens or O.E. pads at low temps - so are best off for track use only.
Not sure how Tarox pads compare to the others.
Chungster had Pagids on his with standard discs, which stood up OK to a track day but I don't think he's had tried his Tarox/Greenstuff combo on a track yet.
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The EBC's did'nt fade, but they're very worn after only a few miles. The brake pedal is long. I am not surprised as they were equally as bad 3 years ago when I tried them last. I gave them the benefit of the doubt, but I wish I had stuck out for Pagid Fast road pads. They would be the correct thickness pad material and do last a lot longer. I use these on my Jetta and they're great. (these pads should be 19.6mm thick but they only come as 15.6mm)
The worst thing about the braking was the ABS getting involved too early and cocking up the whole cars balance..... Dangerous in fact.
I have used Tarox pads before also, and they were just as bad as EBC IMHO.
regards
bill
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http://www.badger5.co.uk
Petrolhead Paul
24-09-2001, 13:09
You sure you didn't cook the brake fluid?
I had that happen on a track day (pedal goes much further without anything happening, and feels really spongy) - although you'd have to be going pretty mental on a public road to boil virtually new fluid.
Bit of a shame the pads are 5mm thinner to start with.
P.S. Are you still running on the standard wheels and tyres?
I'm picking my 210 up on Saturday, but already have some 205/45x16 Goodyear F1s that will really need some 7x16 alloys to go on (slightly too wide for the stock wheels).
I'll probably upgrade as soon as I can afford it, I should imagine the standard rubber struggles to cope with putting down that much power.
They chose that size on the R so it sounds like a good compromise between grip, ride quality and acceleration (as the rolling radius goes up with 17s).
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ibizacupra:
The EBC's did'nt fade, but they're very worn after only a few miles. The brake pedal is long. I am not surprised as they were equally as bad 3 years ago when I tried them last. I gave them the benefit of the doubt, but I wish I had stuck out for Pagid Fast road pads. They would be the correct thickness pad material and do last a lot longer. I use these on my Jetta and they're great. (these pads should be 19.6mm thick but they only come as 15.6mm)
The worst thing about the braking was the ABS getting involved too early and cocking up the whole cars balance..... Dangerous in fact.
I have used Tarox pads before also, and they were just as bad as EBC IMHO.
regards
bill
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[Message edited by Petrolhead Paul on 24 September 2001.]
rriveroll
24-09-2001, 18:21
Ive done alot of track on my Ibiza with the TCS switched off and it works fine. It soukdnt be cutting down on boost at all with the switch in Off. In ON I would say yes it slows you down alot.
I think these cars also have some kind of electronic or mecanical non slip differential that does not turn of when you turn off TCS. I know this for a fact because I went to get my wheels balanced with a dinamic balancer (Wheel on the car) and even with the TCS off the car would just transfer power to the other wheel in weired bursts.
With regards to ABS Ive had no problem on or off the track. By the way you can turn off the ABS (and TCS) by simply disconnecting the sensor on the front wheel brake. Maybe this helps to troubleshoot.
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2001 Seat Ibiza Cupra
KKK K04 Turbo + Chip
HKS Intercooler + Custom Pipes
Seat Sport Brake Calipers
Bilstein PSS9 Coil Over Suspension
Extra Oil Cooler
K&N Air Filter
The ABS on my old cupra16v use to come in quite frequently, too. Though, i have to admit that our roads are quite bumpy and the suspension of the old cupras are somewhat stiffer (so practically better http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/wink.gif than the new one. It was causing me some headache until i did not get use to it (i was terrified when ABS cut the braking power nearly to zero), but now as (i think) i can handle it and watch out not to brake on bumps, it is OK. I think that it is operating correctly, you can't blame the car -- you gotta be careful and learn how to drive such a powerful motor.
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ibizacupra
24-09-2001, 23:06
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by audiosim16v:
The ABS on my old cupra16v use to come in quite frequently, too. Though, i have to admit that our roads are quite bumpy and the suspension of the old cupras are somewhat stiffer (so practically better http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/wink.gif than the new one. It was causing me some headache until i did not get use to it (i was terrified when ABS cut the braking power nearly to zero), but now as (i think) i can handle it and watch out not to brake on bumps, it is OK. I think that it is operating correctly, you can't blame the car -- you gotta be careful and learn how to drive such a powerful motor.
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I can drive and race a VW Jetta with the same power but normally aspirated. Back to back driving the cars on saturday, the ibiza was awefull handling. suspension is too softly sprung on the ibiza allowing too much roll and pitching under hard braking. This is upsetting the other systems like ABS IMHO. Non ABS braking in the Jetta was much llater and deeper into the corners and remained composed throughout unlike the beezer.
Hopefully some decent suspension will get it to handle nearer the Jetta and not a Citroen 2CV.
regards
Bill
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http://www.badger5.co.uk
[Message edited by ibizacupra on 24 September 2001.]
ibizacupra
24-09-2001, 23:21
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rriveroll:
Ive done alot of track on my Ibiza with the TCS switched off and it works fine. It soukdnt be cutting down on boost at all with the switch in Off. In ON I would say yes it slows you down alot.
I think these cars also have some kind of electronic or mecanical non slip differential that does not turn of when you turn off TCS. I know this for a fact because I went to get my wheels balanced with a dinamic balancer (Wheel on the car) and even with the TCS off the car would just transfer power to the other wheel in weired bursts.
With regards to ABS Ive had no problem on or off the track. By the way you can turn off the ABS (and TCS) by simply disconnecting the sensor on the front wheel brake. Maybe this helps to troubleshoot.
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I am blaming the TCS for coming on even when off, as the TCS does wind back the boost to 5psi when on. Should off be off?
Do I have a fault do you think?
Bill
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http://www.badger5.co.uk
Well, as you know i have got a cupra 16v and already placed my order for the new one. Having driven both old and new, i can tell you that the suspension of the old 16 valver is much much better than the new one.
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Seat do a suspension kit (Blisteins I think) for the Cupra @ £499 + around £200 fitting.
This should help he handling quite a bit. Has anyone got this kit/
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rriveroll
27-09-2001, 16:40
Bill, I think you have some kind of fault in your TCS. It should completely turn off when you hit the switch.
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2001 Seat Ibiza Cupra
KKK K04 Turbo + Chip
HKS Intercooler + Custom Pipes
Seat Sport Brake Calipers
Bilstein PSS9 Coil Over Suspension
Extra Oil Cooler
K&N Air Filter
seats suspension is shite as they say it lowers it 20mm where as it only lowers it 7mm. and at 499 its wank. buy the pss9 coilovers much better. Then get a set of four pots you won't be dissappointed
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