View Full Version : Whats the difference???
Can anybody tell me the difference between the 180, 210 and 225 bhp VAG 1.8 turbo engines?
FYI Skoda are putting the 225 bhp engine into an Octavia RS.
:devil: see many previous threads(and arguements )on this question.look at recent cupra vs cuprar thread for example.
FYI Skoda are putting the 225 bhp engine into an Octavia RS.
When is this happening? Will they keep the RS the same otherwise, or are they bringing out a new model?
Cheers,
Steve
Was given this info by a friend who'd gone to test drive an RS, salesman told him there would be a 225 bhp version within 12 months. I can only assume for racing/rallying homologation.
I've searched through the cupra vs cupra r threads and such like, and can only conclude you work for microsoft. As while the information is correct it is of no practical use whatsoever. If the 180 has a hybrid turbo based on the 150, what turbo is it and what trim is it in and what pressure is it boosting at. The 210 has two intercoolers, is the turbo same as 180? Boost level? Different cam overlap? Bigger Valves? From 210 to 225 there is obviously a difference again what are these? I've heard that the 225 TT boosts at around 2 Bar!! but find this hard to believe. The reason I want to know is I am considering a Leon Cupra R and want to know whats possible with the original equipment before the need for bigger turbos and/or serious head work are required. Perhaps someone who knows all of this relevent info could put it together and get it put on the website, save newbies like me asking these questions.
Shock_Xe
27-04-2002, 16:55
Ive been asking the same questions and for the most part i found that the likes of the 150/180 bhp (200bhp with chip) engines are the same setup and turbos just running different software (chip) thus increasing power through boost using the same triple k-k03 turbo, which with this turbo and 3"exhaust system, hi flow cat and manifold & chip can produce upto 220bhp-230bhp, however the audi 225 uses the triple k-k04 turbo which is bigger and runs around 1.0/1.1 bar with biger exhaust and manifold system and intercooler. So the way to go is bolt on a k04 turbo upgrade to a 3" exhaust system and have it chipped/remapped, bigger intercooler, however fuel injectors/regulators may need to b upgraded as they are at 100% at 230bhp.. this should produce power in excess of 250bhp. the k04 turbo will not bolt on to your manifold (slight custom work) but the k04-1 will, this is an earlier version and slightly smaller but pretty much the same...
Think the internals are beefed up on the higher output versions, stronger rods, and tougher pistons etc, check out the part nos on etka or whatever they have now. So although you can bolt on the extra intercooler etc and hit the same power levels, I dont think they will last quite as long. But hopefully someone will explain otherwise. Contact Jabbasport as they seem to have got a lot of pwer out of these units, and have a seriously powerful demonstrator.:rockon:
I thought the engines which ran the K-04 also ran bigger injectors than those with the K-03?
Definately pushin a k-03 to the limit at over 200bhp, even a k-04 would struggle much over 240 due to its design.
Its confusing tho, the 156bhp ibiza does not run the same turbo as the 180bhp leon (i am led to believe) nor does it have the same injectors or manifold.
BUT the TT (225) runs a bigger turbo again as does the new S3.
These have the twin intercoolers where as we have ickle piddly ones.
IMO anymore than 240 in an ibiza will make it undriveable, unless your mad and talented like a certain Mr Brockbank.......nutter
IMO anymore than 240 in an ibiza will make it undriveable, unless your mad and talented like a certain Mr Brockbank.......nutter
When i was looking to buy my Ibiza I had a choice for the RSD 210 bhp conversion through amethyst, or the 240bhp AMD conversion throught SJBSport.... everyone said that an Ibiza with 210bhp is right on the limit of drivability and 240bhp would be too much! BOLLOCKS! I bought the 210bhp version and its noway near the limit of drivability.... in fact, Bill drove the 380bhp Jabbasport Golf and said that its very drivable and mike from Jabbasport said that he expects the Ibiza to be even more drivable than the golf with the same conversion.
So, I've got my name down for one! :)
Sorry if i sounded a bit agressive but I really wish i had bought the 240bhp cnversion but i took people advice, which i now consider to be bad advice. :(
Cheers
ben
Originally posted by Saul
Definately pushin a k-03 to the limit at over 200bhp, even a k-04 would struggle much over 240 due to its design.
BUT the TT (225) runs a bigger turbo again as does the new S3.
These have the twin intercoolers where as we have ickle piddly ones.
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Does anybody have the performance graphs for these turbos?
I assume the tt/s3 with twin intercoolers are the same as the 210 leon cupra r? As it's the same engine as the outgoing s3.
ibizacupra
30-04-2002, 09:32
Originally posted by BenS1
When i was looking to buy my Ibiza I had a choice for the RSD 210 bhp conversion through amethyst, or the 240bhp AMD conversion throught SJBSport.... everyone said that an Ibiza with 210bhp is right on the limit of drivability and 240bhp would be too much! BOLLOCKS! I bought the 210bhp version and its noway near the limit of drivability.... in fact, Bill drove the 380bhp Jabbasport Golf and said that its very drivable and mike from Jabbasport said that he expects the Ibiza to be even more drivable than the golf with the same conversion.
So, I've got my name down for one! :)
Sorry if i sounded a bit agressive but I really wish i had bought the 240bhp cnversion but i took people advice, which i now consider to be bad advice. :(
Cheers
ben
I am surprised that Mike Truluck would have said thwe 380bhp in an Ibiza would handle it better than the Golf.... No Way hosay!
Golf platform is far better than the 'Ibiza one.
Drivable, yes I expect so, a handfull, probably in the wrong hands and the wrong conditions.
Bill
I should clarify my use of the term "Handle"... I guess I shouldn't of used the word handle/handling, coz what I actually mean was acceleration... the Ibiza is front heavy and lighter than the Golf, which means the Ibiza will get better front end grip and therefore acceleration in a straight line (With decent sized tyres.). Thats what Mike told me anyway.
Also, if the Golf handles better than the Ibiza and I've read in a few places that the Golfs handling is really bad compared to other cars like the Focus, then that implies that the Ibiza handles like crap! :(
Mind you, I still read people saying that the 205 GTi is fast and handles well... I have one and its slow and has really bad handling, bur maybe thats just a matter of opinion.
Cheers
Ben
ibizacupra
30-04-2002, 13:00
Originally posted by BenS1
I should clarify my use of the term "Handle"... I guess I shouldn't of used the word handle/handling, coz what I actually mean was acceleration... the Ibiza is front heavy and lighter than the Golf, which means the Ibiza will get better front end grip and therefore acceleration in a straight line (With decent sized tyres.). Thats what Mike told me anyway.
Also, if the Golf handles better than the Ibiza and I've read in a few places that the Golfs handling is really bad compared to other cars like the Focus, then that implies that the Ibiza handles like crap! :(
Mind you, I still read people saying that the 205 GTi is fast and handles well... I have one and its slow and has really bad handling, bur maybe thats just a matter of opinion.
Cheers
Ben
I would advise you drive the Golf demo they have Ben if you have'nt doen so already. It is brutal power when you plant your foot and let it rev.
Imagine that in the little Ibiza and you have a missile. Guiding it may be the challenge though :p
The Golf is a better more stable platform than the Ibiza, not as chuckable no, but when you have mucho power it will live with it better.
Both yours and my Ibiza have PSS9's and this is a must have IMHO (suspension kit not PSS9) to make the best of what it has available and to make it usable power. I am talking handling not just point and squirt.
It will sure be fun to have though...
Makes me smile just thinking about it. :)
regards
Bill
LEO LION R
30-04-2002, 15:06
Presumably then the Cupra R will then have th k04 turbo from outgoing S3 as well as the engine ?
There is very little difference between all the engines. All internals
are basically the same, forged pistons and rods. The engine is extremely strong and is quite capable of producing quite large amounts of power without any internal mods. The turbos are what restricts the output, both the KKK03 and 04 are very inefficient turbos which produce lots of heat for little output. There are hybrid turbos available which are smaller lighter and much more efficient which produce less heat and much more output.
The 180 engine used to have a KKK03 turbo fitted but now have
the impellor from a KKK04 fitted to a KKK03, the blade has a more agressive cut and angle, this explains why newer models when chipped have slightly higher outputs.
The 210 & 225 engines have a KKK04 turbo and an extra intercooler. Internaly they are identical except for lower compression pistons, ie. they have a slightly different top to each piston.
The Ibiza 156bhp has a much smaller intercooler which restricts their tunning capabilities but I think it still has the KKK03 turbo.
Pretty sure I remember reading that the internals of the 225 TT engine are different to the 180 one.
Found this.
The 225 engine also features dual intercoolers, new pistons, a lower compression ratio, cooling water afterrun pump, new exhaust manifold, piston cooling via oil injectors, hot-film air mass meter with reverse flow detector, and single-flow throttle valve unit that is integrated in the electronic throttle control positioner. All of these modifications are made to reliably run 225hp and 207 lb. Ft. of torque with a maximum boost of 2.1 bar as compared to the 180-horsepower unit's 1.8bar.
The pistons are exaclty the same only lower compression, I have seen them ! So the only difference is the piston cooling via oil injectors, can any one confirm that the 180 engine doesn't already have this ?
I would have though they all have piston oil cooling as the old 1.8 kr engine and the ABF have it
Nah the Ibiza Cupra R has just the same engine as the 156Bhp ibizas , just chipped really !