View Full Version : help!! sparkplug has sheared off leaving thread in head.
cordobabrendy
14-04-2005, 20:28
Zoes ka was running like it wa son 3 cylinders last night so tonight i was checking the plugs.
this (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post?v=i&t=6520) has happened to our ka, bloody thing looked welded in but got first one out no probs, second one sheared off with very little effort. how the FCUK do i get it out? motorcraft make schitt spark plugs btw, if you have a ka for a second car, change them, use plenty of wd40 first regardless of how they look to get them out.....
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Cylinder head off job IMO
Bad luck
Rob
ibizacupra
14-04-2005, 21:04
thats bad luck. dunno a way without having to yank of cyl head like rob says
3rd opinion the same here sorry mate :(
REAL long shot but has worked in past
Holts Kurust bathe it in that for an hour
then a good soak of Plus Gas (not WD40 it sux) and leave soaked overnight
worst case worth a try warming it up if the nut part is in complete but doubtful
gis a piccie ?
RichardBW
14-04-2005, 21:20
Leyland/Rover dealer parts depts used to sell an Ally/steel seperator spray. iirc it was for head studs on Rover V8s/TR7 type things when the head was still stuck on even when nuts removed. This had to be left on overnight but when you returned in the morning you could simply lift the head off as though it had never stuck on. Miricle spray was the term the techs used for it, no idea of the real name tho. Sorry. There must be similar sprays/chemicals around today.
Sorry to say though in all reality it looks like a head off jobbie :(
cordobabrendy
14-04-2005, 21:54
push rod engines, what alls involved in getting the head off? haynes manual here i come!!
Head off job.
I changed a head gasket on a ford push rod engine many many years ago.
fiarly easy job from what I remember, no need to faff around with any belts or timing chains.
cordobabrendy
14-04-2005, 22:22
was worrying whether there was any timing to go wrong with...
monkeynuts
15-04-2005, 17:14
was worrying whether there was any timing to go wrong with...Timing as long as you line up the crank marks Brendon before you start......lift off rocker sharft and push rods keeping note of which one went where and lift off head......if you do not turn crank nothing should move ...if you naff up the thread in the head no probs just get it helicoiled(thread insert)this is easy most engine shops should be able to do it .Good luck brend any probs post again... :thumbup:
mark sheerin
15-04-2005, 17:36
You may be able to get it off by liberal wd40 / plus gas overnight...make a plasticine funnel to hold it in place.
Then next morning a GOOD quality screwdriver with a square or hex shaped shaft so you can push the slot end into the remains of the plug and use grips or spanners on the screwdriver shaft to turn it whilst keeping pressure on the handle keeping the slot tight in the plug remains.
I'd try that before removing the head .. being careful not to cause further damage..would be wary of heating anything up with a blowtorch etc with the head being alloy presumably it may warp or get damaged by excess local heat.
with the head being alloy presumably it may warp or get damaged by excess local heat.
the HCS is an old ohv kent derivative - cast iron head aint they :confused:
mark sheerin
15-04-2005, 20:39
the HCS is an old ohv kent derivative - cast iron head aint they :confused:
I think the block will be cast iron but they prolly made the heads ally when they changed them to 16valvers???
sparkus2
15-04-2005, 21:15
Its Defo A Head Of Job Plug Will Need To Be Drilled Out I No This Have Done Heaps Of These At Work The Plugs Are A Bad Design They Corode And Weld Them Selves To The Head.
gary bocking
16-04-2005, 13:53
I wish i'd seen this thread before...
Hope you haven't pulled off the head, no need.
What we do is, take the broken ceramic part out, tap around the seat of the broken plug with a punch.
Get some square tool makers steel that fits inside the broken plug. The stuff we have at work is a bit larger than 1/4" square. tap that in then heat up the seat with the gas-axe (blow torch/oxy acetelene call it what you want), then with a tap wrench or reamer wrench on the tool steel - undo the broken plug.
Done literally hundreds of these over the years.
sparkus2
16-04-2005, 15:04
ah you learn something new everyday i will need to try that one next time we gt a head in see i work in a engine recon place and the customers usually send in the heads with the plugs allready broken.
Happened to me with the wife's KA too :censored: approx 18 months ago.
Extractor tool wouldn't work. :censored:
Eventually got it out using a punch to deform an edge to allow me to "spin" the thread out as described above.
Bast4rd of a job. Had no idea they were known for it. :censored:
cordobabrendy
16-04-2005, 18:54
cheers gary, not done it yet, any pics, particularly of the kind of punch you use as ive not got one i dont think.
mik, yea i didnt know either until doing a web check, got one plug out ok, the other two are looking like they are going to snap too so im going to steep them in wd40 kinda stuff.
steep them in wd40 kinda stuff.
plus gas all day long mate - wd40 SUX
cordobabrendy
16-04-2005, 21:02
thats wehat iw as meaning, didnt know exact name so used generic term!! wd40 haha
cordobabrendy
22-04-2005, 19:34
managed to get the bolt extractors and a 14mm long barrel fitment for my socket set, ran some wd40 into it (couldnt find anything better in t'shed) no better, ran some heat onto it for a min or two, still didnt budge, after deciding a couple of shredded knuckles wouldnt matter i managed to get it out, then tried to ease the other intact plugs out after brushing all the rusted bits of plug/manifold, ER ERRRR , wrong answer, three out of the four plugs sheared in half!
check out the middle left plug the shape of it!!! Nedless to say the wee ka is running 100% again
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/cordobabrendy/PICT2012.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/cordobabrendy/PICT2008.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/cordobabrendy/PICT1993.jpg
saved a head off though eh :p
lol
well done mate
cordobabrendy
22-04-2005, 20:22
yes mate, i had i dont know how many people saying its a head off job, then three come along and one recomends a specific tool, bobs your uncle and 2 hours later i managed to get them out, i brushed as much of the rust away but some did get into cylinder 2, will it just be a oil change this week or fuel flush treatment?
Good news - I got the impression from your original post that the plug had sheared off - i.e nothing left to get hold of hence my 'head off' comment - good to hear its sorted though
:thumbup:
Cheers
Rob
cordobabrendy
23-04-2005, 14:17
yea rob the entire ceramic bit (i take it its ceramic anyway) came away, leaving the top bits in the photos welded in practically.
car is still running funny under load, im off out now to try cleaning the idle valve.
cheers for all the suggestions.
ibizacupra
23-04-2005, 16:24
so you still had flats to get on...
I see now..
cordobabrendy
23-04-2005, 17:07
yea bill wasnt as bad a job as i was expecting, had torch and everything sitting on standby!
fords are truely awful, makes you appreciate SEATs even more!!
ibizacupra
23-04-2005, 17:17
glad you got it sorted m8
when you put the new ones in use a bit of nickel grease not copper, it has a higher heat rating and may prevent that from happening again.
what brand plugs were they?
cordobabrendy
21-05-2005, 02:34
baomo the copper grease seems ok so far, its actually a problem with the ford motorcraft plugs being crap and not rustproofed, they can sieze inside a year and a half apparently, they recommend loosening and tightening them again every year or so, instead of paying 15-20 quid and not having to worry, i chose the 20 quid route!
Not just motorcraft Brendy ~ it was an NGK that sheared in the head of ours. :(
cordobabrendy
21-05-2005, 13:52
really? from the research i did i only saw motorcraft (ford rebadged apparently)
its not got a shiney set of champions which will be getting reseated yearly til she gets rid of the bloody thing. its still not running right, leads and fuel filter next.
this is a common thing on these mate, all of the ohv ford engines are the same ka's, fiesta's etc. the plugs are a poor design, as others have sed all i would do is lubricate the threads of the new plugs with copper grease or similar.
cordobabrendy
21-05-2005, 15:21
your preaching to the converted mate! haha the first thing i did when it happened was get onto the net as i really didnt put much force onto it when it happened. the worst bit of the design is that its self sealing and doesnt have a washer to act as a go between, if it had a proper washer it wouldnt happen as the two non treated surfaces (plug and head of the engine)wouldnt be touching anyway.
yeep they have no compression washer and the fact the head is made of cast dosent help. i work as a mechanic and as sed above this is all to common. just down to poor design and cheap manufacturing costs. main thing is you got um out.
cordobabrendy
21-05-2005, 15:28
hehe yea and i might offer to service fiestas and kas with a huge warning making them shit themselves into rushing round now that ive got the bolt extractors! hehehe
hopefully theyll all be in scrap yards soon and wont have to be maintained, oh well suppose cars like these keep me in a job, not the most exciting things to work on but thats life
cordobabrendy
21-05-2005, 15:37
known mechanical/design faults are ten times better than ropey leccy faults etc though!
yep agree there, electrical faults really get to me dont like um at all. give me a hammer and chisel and im alrite
yea. maybe dielectric grease would have kept it from rusting so bad.
i've never had one seperate like that, could just be the crappy ford plugs.
Bunglebonce
23-05-2005, 11:20
baomo the copper grease seems ok so far, its actually a problem with the ford motorcraft plugs being crap and not rustproofed, they can sieze inside a year and a half apparently, they recommend loosening and tightening them again every year or so, instead of paying 15-20 quid and not having to worry, i chose the 20 quid route!
Yeah, this is the old fiesta engine and it's notorious for this.#
Best thing is to lube the thread and scrap and replace the plugs every twelve months - may seem excessive if the car's only doing 4k a year or something but defiantly a wise idea! :)