F1 Austrian Grand Prix Farce [Archive] - SEAT Cupra.net

djawol

12-05-2002, 17:38

Originally posted by Brian27
IMO - F1 is already boring enough without drivers following team orders on who wins or gets a higher placing.

I couldn't agree more. I've been watching the start, then barely watching the race and then catching the highlights at the end for a while now. I really can't be arsed with it anymore. Give me the BTC any day over this.

It's too much money/sponsorship orientated and not enough racing......although if someone wants to pay me £10 million to come second every race then I'm available most weekends. ;)

Cheers
Andy

robbie453

12-05-2002, 19:05

F1 isnt exciting anymore its always the same bloody people winning!
the smaller teams should have some sort of help to let them achive a pole position every now and then.
im keeping my eye on Button he's one of the best drivers out there and keeps giving coultard a run for his money!

Magnus_Anderson

12-05-2002, 21:42

Originally posted by Cupraman

Not Schumeys or Rubi's fault, just the prats that want to earn even more money.

Never been a fan of Shumey - yeah sure hes a great driver, I just think he can bit a bit arrogant.

But in response that is not Shumeys fault, then I have to disagree, Schumacher has got a mind of his own, I believe he could have held back if he had wanted too, team orders or no team orders!

Cupramax

12-05-2002, 23:10

I think the sh*t will hit the fan after this. Booed off the track is not something you usually associate with F1 but today they went a bit too far. I for one wont be watching anymore after this. Its a FARCE. :(

Ryan

13-05-2002, 07:08

Think I'll start watching the world superbikes instead, far more interesting than F1. I usually tape it as it's on bbc2 at the same time as grand prix but I'm sickened by that farce yesterday and I'm a huge Ferrari fan. Maybe not for much longer if they keep on doing things like that. :(

andyb

13-05-2002, 08:04

Fareccal.

I still believe Shuey has to accept some of the blame, as he could have parked it behind Rubens, if he wasnt happy about it (as he suggested in the press conference),,,what are they going to do, sack him :p

What really pi**es me off, is in the Australian GP, Mika was leading David (who was way ahead of 3rd place) when McLaren ballsed up called Mika in for a pit stop. Later in the race, David let Mika ovetake him back to take the lead and the win. There was a fair bit of outcry about this (even though this was justice and not a farce- but even as a McLaren-ite, I can see both sides to this).

A couple of weeks later, the FiA announced that if team orders took place and affected the championship and/or brought the sport into disripute, then the team (not sure about the drivers) would loose those points.

,,,,, seems yet another rule that dosen't affect the red cars!

a couple of questions that didnt get televised at the end of the press conference:-

Q: Michael, what is this championship worth now?

MS: I didn't know I am champion yet.

Q: If you win this championship, Michael, what is this championship worth now?

MS: I don't think that is a very nice question to ask now.

Q: Isn't this a sport? Isn't this about motor racing?

MS: (No comment)

[...]

Q: Michael. You said if you could reverse it you would. Are you then saying that if the FIA excluded both of you for bringing the sport into disrepute, you would not appeal?

MS: Thank you.

[...]

Q: Michael do you want to win the world championship because you are the best racer or because you have got the best contract?

MS: (No comment)

Q: All three of you are talking about this as a team sport. Why do we have an individual world championship for drivers?

All drivers: (No comment)

andyb

13-05-2002, 08:05

if you want decent racing, then superbikes or BTCC does it

mik

13-05-2002, 08:18

On the upside ~ it was an actual overtake.....
:rolleyes:
I really wish Ecclestone & Mosely would reconsider the current "no-overtaking" legislation. :(

ibizacupra

13-05-2002, 14:54

Originally posted by mik
On the upside ~ it was an actual overtake.....
:rolleyes:
I really wish Ecclestone & Mosely would reconsider the current "no-overtaking" legislation. :(

LOL

Shall not bother watching my taped highlights now then.
Another reason to not bother with F1.

Silly buggers. This early in the season as well.

Bill

Shaggy

13-05-2002, 18:07

Update on BBC news http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/motorsport/formula_one/newsid_1984000/1984693.stm

jaf01uk

13-05-2002, 18:13

Just go's to show what the "F" in FIA stands for, Ferrari do it again and get off scot free? The Australian thing mentioned above and the disqual of Cooturd in Brazil for fuel irregularities, Montoya getting a penalty for Shoomaker running into him!!?? the barge board "have them as big as you like" carry on, I'm sure everyone will agree that the F in FIA stands for Ferrari, Barrichello got the trophy but the cobbler gets the points and the name in the record books despite being out paced by Rubinnio the whole week end......Crap

Toonman

13-05-2002, 18:28

Same here. F1's up there with Snooker, Darts and Ice Skating in the boredom stakes...

ibizacupra

13-05-2002, 21:00

Originally posted by Toonman
Same here. F1's up there with Snooker, Darts and Ice Skating in the boredom stakes...

Don't forget Synchronised Swimming.. hmmm Really exciting!

From the BBC link>
"Penalties available to the FIA include docking Schumacher's points or banning both drivers from a race or future races."

It is the Team who should be fined.
Shuey and Rubens are both employees after all.

Fine the Team but let the results stand I say.

Bill

ibizacupra

13-05-2002, 21:04

"We controlled the race today. We told the drivers we didn't want them racing. "
^^^ from the BBC report again ^^^

Erm guys.. Formula 1 is a RACE series... perhaps you should look towards Tiddlywinks or something..????

Silly buggers.

Formula 1 needs sponsorship deals to fund it. It needs to be a spectacle for people to make it worth while for advertisers.

Keep doing this stuff and Formula 1 has its days numbered.

Bill

F2 Stu

13-05-2002, 21:54

I have been and active followere of F1 since the days when Mansell was driving his williams honda turbo, in all those years I have been intersted in F1 I have never seen such a premedditated farce in this sport, in a race where shumacher was outclassed well and proper by the revived Barichello and his previous performances proved this was no fluke, was made to move over. in the contract that barichello has it sipulates that he would not be asked to move over if he was leading a race. bollocks.

the press is over reacting as usual but the general puplic will vote with there feet, the legendary tifosie are dissolosioned(sorry for the speillling) with the result and im sure Ferari's image will be tarnished for many years to come.

Will the FIA slap there wrists?

hopkinsgm

13-05-2002, 22:34

Originally posted by MarkP
It's just not cricket.
I know - cricket's a FAR more involving and exciting sport to watch these days...

G

Toonman

13-05-2002, 22:45

Sorry, missed that one Bill! :D Fell asleep as I got to Ice Skating on my list...

Cuprasport2000

14-05-2002, 15:02

Couldn't agree more about it being a farce. Didnt think it was going to happen as Barraclueless kept the lead right up until the last minute. The only redeeming thing in Schueys favour is that he put Rubens in first place on the podium. If it wasnt for that awesome crash where the Jordan got re-modelled then the whole race would of been pants!! Seriously though, I was releived to hear that Tako Magasukiyamaha was not seriously injured afterward. The question is... will Eddy Jordan fire him now.... :devil:

Saul

14-05-2002, 15:43

i await the "breakaway" F1 series excluding ferrari

all this boring talk has only come from one thing tho, ferrari have a sh*t hot car and th best driver in the world, he's been panning them all year, this has just given them an excuse to moan.

Barrichello signed the contract, he knows what he has to do, i just think he didnt realise how serious it was. Star struck when offered a drive for ferrari IMO

Maybe if Mclaren/Mercedes spent less time designing the Merc SLR over the winter break and concentrated on the F1 team they wouldnt be where they are now.

Team orders are part of the sport, whether you like it or not, its boring not cos barrichello pulls over, its just there is no-one who can keep up with them.

We all know Schumacher/ferrari will do anything to win, remember damon hill in australia when schumey ran him off the road?

A more level playing field is required yes, 1 engine for the weekend wont work. Restricting the amount of downforce these cars produce will, along with a standardisation on tyres.

They need to do something tho, oh and ferrari rules dont count

Toonman

14-05-2002, 16:06

What, they're doing Cameras now are they? :eek: I think I'll stick with my Mamiya, Nikon etc. :)

andyb

14-05-2002, 18:15

Originally posted by Saul

Maybe if Mclaren/Mercedes spent less time designing the Merc SLR over the winter break and concentrated on the F1 team they wouldnt be where they are now.

completely different team of people,,,and company

F2 Stu

14-05-2002, 19:00

IMHO, F1 should adopt rules that the revitalised DTM and BTCC use, different points scorring systems and success ballast will makes a lot better. Get rid of the stupid groove tyres and introduce control wings, one engine rulse will be no use whatsoever

Cupramax

14-05-2002, 20:47

Originally posted by Toonman
What, they're doing Cameras now

LOL Mike. :D Think that went over everyone elses head....

hopkinsgm

14-05-2002, 22:30

Originally posted by F2 Big Stu
...Get rid of the stupid groove tyres and introduce control wings, one engine rulse will be no use whatsoever
My own opinion is that they should do away with refuelling and introduce a maximum fuel load. It forced the designers to consider engine efficiency in addition to absolute performance and demanded a whole different driving style to be adopted. That would be a far more effective way of levelling the playing field - way better than "the plank", grooved tyres or aerodynamic controls.

Would Senna make it to race distance having booted it down the straight in a gutsy overtaking maneouvre on Prost? I know this may come as a shock to the younger amongst you but there was a time when they DID actually overtake in F1, and not just because the leader was in the pits or because of team orders... I recall seeing drivers getting out of cars and pushing them across the line having run dry with yards to go. And kicking off at any marshalls who tried to help in fear of disqualification. That's the sort of action you want at the end of a tense race, not the farce we witnessed at the weekend.

G

Toonman

14-05-2002, 22:34

But not yours Max; knew I could rely on you! :)

Saul

15-05-2002, 09:27

Andy

Apparently not, when asked the question over the SLR by Autocars journalists, Ron Dennis admitted to much of their tim ehad gone into desiging and building the prototype, also backed up by the Merc racing director (norbert haug is it?) that they had dragged their heels in engine development due to the SLR project.

Could just be covering their ass, could be true, could be made up.

I dunno, im as pro mclaren as you. I just get bored of Schumacher

Bring back mansell/senna/prost/piquet/alesi et al

F2 Stu

15-05-2002, 20:09

Originally posted by hopkinsgm

My own opinion is that they should do away with refuelling and introduce a maximum fuel load. It forced the designers to consider engine efficiency in addition to absolute performance and demanded a whole different driving style to be adopted. That would be a far more effective way of levelling the playing field - way better than "the plank", grooved tyres or aerodynamic controls.

Would Senna make it to race distance having booted it down the straight in a gutsy overtaking maneouvre on Prost? I know this may come as a shock to the younger amongst you but there was a time when they DID actually overtake in F1, and not just because the leader was in the pits or because of team orders... I recall seeing drivers getting out of cars and pushing them across the line having run dry with yards to go. And kicking off at any marshalls who tried to help in fear of disqualification. That's the sort of action you want at the end of a tense race, not the farce we witnessed at the weekend.

G

I am old enuff to remember when overtaking happened!
banning refueling would work as well, but the constructers would be up in arms, the cars nower days are too technologically advanced, the cars are so fragile that one tape on the wheel from another cart and the suspension will buckle making the drivers too scared to race

CarreraGT

16-05-2002, 11:16

Fing Ferrari! I friggin hate them and my opinion hasn't got better scince Austria!

Its disgusting that Ribena Barriclueless Had to move over the ShoeMaker! They would have undoubtedly lost fans world wide and im sure their sponsers are going to super p*ssed!

Now if that was McLaren or BMW im pretty sure they would get some kinda penalty against them. But Ferrari being Ferrari im sure its freaking fine with Max Mosely, Bernie Eccelstone et al. Double standards if u ask me!

Being a McLaren fan im disappionted with the car they have this year even though Rikonnen and Coulthard are up to the job! Kimi has really impressed me this season like he did last! Out qualifying Coulthard 4 to 2! I think McLarens problem is they concentrate too much on building Mobile homes and the best canteen at the curcit rather than building the best car and all their attention going into that SLR well im sure Ron Dennis has got his priorities mixed up!

I wonder if the bookies are taking any bets to see weather Ferrari actually get penalised or not! Im sure the odds with be favouring Ferrari!

I dont think refueling should be disallowed as it will just make it even more dangerous! U dont want a 180mph accident with a tank full of fuel! I say bring the Slicks back!

P.s. Bring back the good old days!

mik

16-05-2002, 12:39

Whole thing is just processional p1sh now.

I'm all for a return to turbos and fixed fuel quantities with no stops allowed.

At least this allowed drivers to turn up the wick a bit to overtake ~ at the risk of overstressing the engine, and obviously using too much fuel....and having to turn the wick back down later.

The fact they might run out in the last few laps just added excitement. Have to admit though, that whilst it was fantastic watching drivers push their cars over the line....it's probably not the safest practice....

hopkinsgm

16-05-2002, 12:46

Originally posted by CarreraGT
I dont think refueling should be disallowed as it will just make it even more dangerous! U dont want a 180mph accident with a tank full of fuel! I say bring the Slicks back!
Consider this - how many crashes in the days of no refuelling resulted in the fuel cell going up in flames? Now compare that with the number of pit lane fires we've seen since refuelling has been reintroduced. Do you still think carrying a full load of of fuel is dangerous?

As for re-introducing slicks, this would make aerodynamics far more important to maximise the downforce and make the most of the extra grip available. Which means far more wind tunnel time, which the less well-funded teams can ill afford already.

The major fault with the rules at the moment is that they favour those that can afford to exploit them to their full extent - although this is common at ALL levels of motorsport, from clubman up. Some kind of control measure needs to be introduced to level the playing field a bit. A maximum payload of fuel is a fairly obvious control measure and one which has been used before and produced some of the most exciting RACING in my memory. Aside from everything else, the trickle down of technology would then be of some use to your man on the street, far more so than carbon fibre wing mirrors...

As for all the Ferrari bashing that's going on, every season I can recall has had a dominant team, and this often spans several seasons. So Ferrari exploit the rules to their full potential at the moment, but in years gone by it's been McLaren, Williams, Lotus, Renault, Brabham, whoever. TBH I find it refreshing to see Ferrari doing well after MANY years of being uncompetitive. Yes, a few stewards enquiries have found in favour, but this happens in many formulae also - it is just because of the profile of F1 that we're all so aware of it.

G

Toonman

16-05-2002, 14:02

I just don't care - bit of a "non" Sport now.

ibizacupra

16-05-2002, 17:12

Formula 1 is a business, major monies are contributed by sponsorhip etc.. so they do run the risk of devaluing their sponsors returns if less people watch the GP.

TV rights are a huge ££ earner for F1, but as we have seen, unless they get a return and people want to watch, TV companies will not want to pay mega money for rights to a sport that people are fed up with watching. Look at ITV Digital and the football clubs.. It was not a sustainable business. Too much money out, not enough in. Oops!

All this is good for other motorsport though, as there is a real interest in motorsport that makes for "interesting" watching.
BTCC, Superbikes, DTM, Rallying...

Be interesting to see what falls out of this if anything!

regards
Bill

bensaud

17-05-2002, 09:33

I have not read all the post but I am guessing that most people are miffed at what Ferrari did at the last race, personally I stopped following F1 about 2 years ago, I will only watch a race if I have nothing better to do, It just isn't racing any more.
I do enjoy watching the Monaco, just because it is a good road circuit that is very demanding for the drivers, oh and the women are nice :D

Brian27

29-09-2002, 20:44

It gets worse....:sick:

CarreraGT

29-09-2002, 20:58

That was quick Brain u posted that almost 0.0010sec after Barriaintgotaclue when over the line!

Brian27

29-09-2002, 21:03

Careera ;),

I had a feeling something dodgy was going to happen and had my post pre-typed. ;)

CarreraGT

29-09-2002, 21:06

Wouldn't surprise me!

BTW its Carrera not Careera but u knew that too ;)

Brian27

29-09-2002, 21:08

I'm Brian, not Brain! ;) :p ;)

F2 Stu

29-09-2002, 21:12

something tells me that was a genuine mix-up rather than a gift, it spoilt a reasonably active race:(

Brian27

29-09-2002, 21:27

Originally posted by F2 Big Stu
something tells me that was a genuine mix-up rather than a gift, it spoilt a reasonably active race:(

Maybe.....but why get into a situation where a mix-up could occur?

Have to agree it was one of the season's better races.

:cheers:

LEO LION R

29-09-2002, 21:34

and the least number of retirements too !

(accident not fix IMHO, far to close to be deliberate)

bensaud

30-09-2002, 08:36

erm one question...

What happened?

Tigger II

30-09-2002, 08:42

Didn't bother with the Grand Prix, have been a fan for more years than I care to remember but have totally given up on it now, can't even call it a sport because it is just now a big business enterprise.

Now the last two races in the World Superbikes this weekend were something else. Watching Edwards and Bayliss going for it hammer and tongs was real sport and real entertainment!

Brian27

30-09-2002, 08:42

Shoemaker had the race won, he let Barrycello catch up with him on the last bend so as to cross the line together and as they did so they misjudged it by an inch and Barrycello crossed the line first but with identical times! :rolleyes:

mik

30-09-2002, 08:45

I'm with tigger.

Used to really enjoy F1 and Touring cars in particular (back in the days of Andy Rouse & Frank Sytner....showing my age ;) )

F1 is now processional, and touring cars moving to FWD....that's lost it's appeal too. :(

Only thing that gets me excited now is 500 bike GP and superbikes. They overtake and get the things moving on the tarmac..... nuff said.

bensaud

30-09-2002, 08:46

Glad I didn't waste my time watching it.....

Nobber

30-09-2002, 08:56

Have to say the F1 GP was a good race although it is always a foregone conclusion really. The thing at the end was a joke though and I dont think schuy would really of let him win, he's too selfish for that!!! :D

But the world superbikes. Holly s**t, now there was a race. I really thought bayliss was gonna do him though. Great action from two boys who obviously love what they do and are good mates about it!

One question though:

How the hell did he hang on to that Duke when the back end was kicking out like that?!?

Cuprasport2000

30-09-2002, 18:39

Bikes :D

Pete_slim

30-09-2002, 21:05

Hi guys,

Just thought that I'd add my 'threpney bit' worth... I personally love F1 for the reason that it is the forefront of technology. Given the current legislation, rules and regultions it allows the lesser teams to 'compete' but spoils the true power that I think that F1 could have. For example, we've already pursued the traction control medium, and yet we find that the cars have it again. (that for me is a step backwards). Given the complete morbid dominance by Ferrari.... (believe me it pi$$es me off no end cos I've been a Mclaren fan since the day I can think about watching the cars go round). But, ferrari are a class above..
I watched the Highlights last night at midnight (simply becasue i was holding my chest together watching Lee Evans live in leeds last night).
We talk about torque on here, but sad as it seems, watching the Ferrari rev out through its gears was awesome. (I should really get out more).
Anyway, I can only say that it was a grave mistake by Mr Schumacher to try what he did. (bold but foolish). It didn't ruin my race because they were 1st & 2nd anyway. It's almost stupidly expected nowadays.
I agree with quite a few, I also loved the touring cars RS500 cosworth's & Sytner in his M3. (Murray spouting "Pass on the right frank" closely followed by the v's in the in-car camera......Magic).

As a Senna fan (sad but true), I think that F1 should say bollox to the rules and put big fat slicks on, 1000hp engines with no management/traction control, move the crowd back (slightly) and then lets see who's the greatest. Cos the drivers get paid lots for driving incorporating the danger, so lets give it some.

Whoa... What a novel...
Nuff said.

LEO LION R

30-09-2002, 22:01

Originally posted by Brian27
Shoemaker had the race won, he let Barrycello catch up with him on the last bend so as to cross the line together and as they did so they misjudged it by an inch and Barrycello crossed the line first but with identical times! :rolleyes:

So you don't even have the slightest bit of respect for either of them now, that is Schumacher and Barrichello :rolleyes: at least get their names right :(

Toonman

01-10-2002, 00:03

I have none whatsoever for Schumacher, no matter how anyone wishes to spell his name. A talented driver in F1 (which impresses me little anyway), but a piss poor Sportsman when you look back at his catalogue of despicable on and off track antics.

I see Michael Schumacher as vindication of my decision many years ago, to stop watching and listening to F1 on TV and Radio. It stopped being a Sporting spectacle some time ago.

If there was an F1 race in my back garden, I wouldn't bother to open the curtains...:(

LEO LION R

01-10-2002, 09:38

Are you one in the same Brian27 and Toonman :rolleyes: , or just expressing your opinion for him? :confused:

scullers

01-10-2002, 10:05

I agree that F1 doesn't hold the same interest as before- in fact I think F1 as a TV spectacle is finished- viewing figures confirm this. I've never been to a GP and quite frankly never want to either. The reason for this is that sport in the truest sense of the word went out of the window in F1 a long time ago and was replaced by big business. I can't believe the prices charged for circuit entry and merchandise.
Also, virtually all of the drivers are overpaid prima donnas- I still believe that many of them shouldn't even be behind the wheel of an F1 car.
Rallying Rules -OK!!

F2 Stu

01-10-2002, 17:15

ban all electronic aids (luanch control, traction control, automatic gear shift) get rid of the stupid grooved tyres, reduce downforce, increase the strengh of the suspension parts(so it dont break when going wheel to wheel with another car) and limit the amount of money a team can spend on a car(it has worked with the btcc)

Toonman

01-10-2002, 18:52

I can't see anything written in this Thread where Brian expresses a similar opinion to my last Post. Even if he and I had agreed, why is that a problem Leo?:confused:

I know you might find it strange that someone agrees with me, but it does happen all the time. Similarly, many in the Forum agree with Brian on a regular basis too.

Why are you making an issue out of this?

LEO LION R

01-10-2002, 19:47

Toonie with all due respect (and it is getting less everytime you make allegations like this), i am not making an issue of anything. If you feel the need to have a go, please do it offline.

With regards to my original comments, i had made a comment to Brian27 about the spelling of names (yes you correct people too) - you responded to that, not Brian27- i questioned if you were indeed Brian27 - to clear it up (hopefully) it was meant to be sarcastic (yes i know the lowest form of wit) END of story.

I can only imagine you are having a bad day or something like that.

Keep calm, relax and be happy :)

Cupramax

01-10-2002, 21:23

Originally posted by LEO LION R
Toonie, with all due respect

Thats a bit of a contradiction isn't it :rolleyes:

LEO LION R

01-10-2002, 22:09

Yes :rolleyes:

Toonman

01-10-2002, 23:09

Thanks Max.

Leo

You have shown little respect for me since the outset. You purported to be an "expert" on a the subject of Leon Cupras and Subaru Impreza Turbos, whilst at the time being neither the current or former owner of either (nor an expert). You have doubted my ability to calculate running costs of said vehicles or to post figures for them truthfully. You have even gone as far as to question my legitimacy to be in this Forum, when at the time you yourself were not an owner of any Seat whatsoever.

For some reason, you appear to have gone out of your way to challenge repeatedly, the validity of my posts, so respect is the last thing I expect from you. Sadly, all I do ex[ect from you now, is lots of hassle, whether warranted or not. As I've said several times, you would argue Black was White with me.

In your latest attempt at bullying, you're now questioning why Brian and I have similar views on F1. This does happen Leo. Friends can agree, and sometimes Brian and I disagree. It's not a problem for either of us; it's called life and friendship. It's not a conspiracy against you.

As for me keeping calm, "relaxing and being happy". Maybe you should take your own advice? You once posted, that I was lucky if I regarded this as hassle. I am lucky Leo - lovely Wife, great friends, smashing home, job to die for and the best car I can buy for the money I have available. Chuck in 3 or 4 straight EPL wins for The Toon and I'll be ecstatic!:) I can do without your hassle and snide remarks though; not what I come in here for...

I do find your comments annoying, along with many, many others and wish for once you'd contribute something worthwhile instead of being so very destructive all the time. It's not a healthy attitude.

Please do not try to turn things around, by suggesting I take this offline. I indeed suggested that many months ago, and you refused. You didn't reply to my PM, nor did you take up my offer of a telephone discussion. I'd rather not have any more PM apologies either. Were they well meant, I'd accept, but as they obviously lack any form of sincerity, it's rather a waste of effort reading them.

I've no idea if you were bullied at School, or indeed were a bully yourself, but you will not bully me. If this is yet another feeble attempt to try to get me to leave the Forum, I'm afraid that's just not going to happen...

bazzer

02-10-2002, 07:34

Leo,

Your constant snipes do make good reading on the forums.

If you have a problem, either sort it out, or take it elsewhere.

Toonman

02-10-2002, 07:56

Thanks Barry.

Cuprasport2000

02-10-2002, 08:21

I agree. Leo, its all getting a bit tedious now...

PipSqueak111

02-10-2002, 09:08

Originally posted by scullers
I've never been to a GP and quite frankly never want to either. The reason for this is that sport in the truest sense of the word went out of the window in F1 a long time ago and was replaced by big business. I can't believe the prices charged for circuit entry and merchandise.

I think you've fallen into the trap that many in this country have. You seem to see the farce that is the Silverstone GP as the be-all and end-all of F1. The circuit entry and merchandise prices at Silverstone and in the UK, are not typical of prices around Europe and the rest of the world, they are just another example of 'Rip-off Britain'.

To give you an example, I worked out that for the price of a Silverstone Sunday Grandstand ticket to the GP, I could get a grandstand ticket for BOTH days at San Marino (Imola), plus the return airfare, a hire car and an overnight stay in a B&B/Hotel.

European rounds of the F1 championship really aren't that expensive. They seem to average £35-40 for a 2-day grandstand ticket. That to my mind is good value for the spectacle you see. And believe me, until you've been to a GP and heard those engines screaming, you really don't understand the attraction to the sport.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the sport isn't in need of an enjoyment injection, it frankly is. You just seemed to be writing the sport off. These spells of domination by a team or driver have happened all through motor racing's (not just F1's) history, and have always led to rule changes that have made the sport adapt or advance. The BTCC hit a flat-spot in recent years, but they have managed to turn that around again; I think F1 will be able to do the same, but it will take time. Personally, I'd like to see slicks back and the removal of the independent front and rear wings. Anyone who has ever watched Formula Fords running without wings will tell you just how great it is watching those twitchy monsters dance round the circuit - it really demands driving skill to race one of those, and an F1 car in that configuration would be a real handful with their levels of power. Just watch a driver trying to get his F1 car back to the pits after losing a rear wing (ala Ralf on Sunday) - that takes real precision driving and a big hairy pair between your legs!

For those of you that miss the old F1 days, I can highly recommend you to go and see the Thoroughbred GP cars race or the Euro BOSS series. Both feature old GP and Indy cars, and the over-taking moves you wouldn't believe given the priceless nature of the cars!

Phill

LEO LION R

02-10-2002, 09:19

Yes i agree Cuprasport2000, tedious, frustrating and anoying. That is why i suggested to TM to save his comments for offline, i fail to see how this has got so blown out of proportion (again)

I said relax and be happy :D

Toonman, i have never said i didn't own a Subaru Impreza before (you never even asked - assumed maybe), only a Leon Cupra. I also have no real problem with the majority of things so comments on, or have to say. If i agreed with everything it would be rather boring and sad.

This seems very out of order for someone who is supposed to be responsible enough to be a Moderator, and slightly biased with safety in numbers. I am disapointed that you will not let our previous differences stay in the past, and cast them up at any opportunity. I feel it is you who will not let it lie.

The post wasn't even directed to you in the first place, and now i find myself arguing with you for no reason. I publically apologise to you if you have been upset by this, as i have appologised to you privately in the past (no comments please;) ) Can we just carry on with the relevant topics please.

Chill, be happy :D (and get on with writing something decent for a change ;) )

Toonman

02-10-2002, 10:19

Leo

Meaning I need my Pals around me to disagree with you? Was it not me that gave you my phone number and invited you to ring me? Was it not you that chose not to do that...?

As for me not letting it lie. I've been trying to ignore your comments for some time now. You are the one that's been carrying on sniping away, and it's not only me that's sick of it. Every time you start, my PM box fills with mails from members, (some that do not even know), saying they're sick of you and your bitchy comments.

Do yourself a favour and stop it. It's not necessary and not welcome.

You say this wasn't directed at me:

Are you one in the same Brian27 and Toonman :rolleyes: , or just expressing your opinion for him? :(

Seems like it was as far as I can see.

Even if you meant this as a joke, try picking the smileys more carefully, but better still, in the current climate think a bit more before you Post.

Toonman

02-10-2002, 10:28

Oh and as far as you telling me to:

get on with writing something decent for a change

:lol2:

LEO LION R

02-10-2002, 10:35

Cheers :cheers: I will :) in future :D okay

Get a grip ;) (yes sacrcastic - not a nasty comment, tongue in cheek)

( Please also remeber the comments you have directed at me and many other in the past which i don't cast up )

Moving on lets talk F1 now, can McLaren get it together for next year and make a real challenge?

They have made huge plans for a radical shake up, in a bid to move closer to Ferarri.

PipSqueak111

02-10-2002, 10:54

Originally posted by LEO LION R
Moving on lets talk F1 now, can McLaren get it together for next year and make a real challenge?

They have made huge plans for a radical shake up, in a bid to move closer to Ferarri.

I suspect that Ferrari will drop the ball next year. They know that Mclaren, Williams, et al will be going radical to attempt to beat them next season, and they won't want to be caught resting on their laurels, so will push the reliability barriers out a bit.

If it was just one team chasing them hard, they probably wouldn't perceive it as such a threat, and would just let that team push their cars' reliability over the edge, perhaps only taking a handful of wins/podiums inbetween retirements. The problem they'll have next season, is McLaren, Williams and others (Jordan with Ford perhaps? Toyota?), will all be going to extreme lengths for wins, and 3 or 4 teams all taking a win or two from Ferrari will seriously hurt their championship defence. I don't know if Ferrari will be able to hold their nerve and try and tough it out with reliability like they did for the early part of this season, when they have this looming tide of radical competitors hunting them down?!

Phill

Pete_slim

02-10-2002, 11:03

Well, I as a fan would have to admit that Mclaren tend to do well when there is a dramatic rule change. therefore when someone says you use square tyres... They'll probably be the best for a while until the others stop using rectangles!!!.

They are not very inspiring to watch either.. Prefered it when they had the red/white Marlboro livery.. rather than the grey/black/west logo ..

In all seriousness, the curent top dogs are gonna be hard to topple, unless something drastic happens. Lots of things were hoped for from Adrian Newey... radical designs and all. Be it that the car is easier on its tyres than the williams, Goodyear are not committed solely to the goal of one outfit. This factor I think favours the Ferrari's with the Bridgestones). Until Mclaren all pedal in the same direction then they're always gonna be scraping up the leftovers.

Pescimistic views (I know) but I have lost a few annual wagers to a ferrari supporting friend over the past few years and it's about time to get some back.. Come on Ron, sack Coulthard cos he's turning into a safe old grandad. (all be it getting the points though!!)

PipSqueak111

02-10-2002, 11:31

I'm a McLaren supporter too (plus any other British team or driver). I like the silver and black of the West livery. I can't see it going while Mercedes supply McLaren's engines, as it is supposed to hark back to the 'Silver Arrows' from Mercedes' motorsport heritage. (I don't want it to change either, otherwise my silver and black Mercedes Motorsport jacket will be out of date ;) )

Michelin (Goodyear?!?) working with both Williams and McLaren is a step in the right direction I think, as it may be able to produce tyre compounds for each gp that suit the cars harder on their tyres and those softer on their tyres (rather than this season, where even the soft compound seemed too hard for the McLarens and most others, but still too soft for the Williams!).

Coulthard is meant to be there as the 'safe old Grandad'. As you said, he gets the points. It lets Raikonen do his banzai bit, without too much damage to the teams overall points standings. It's the same team structure used by many teams if you look up and down the pit-lane - other 'grandads' include Panis, Ralf, Barrichello, Irvine, Salo, and to some extent, Button!

Pete_slim

02-10-2002, 12:01

Originally posted by PipSqueak111
Michelin (Goodyear?!?)

Ooops.... Still got them F1's you had for sale on my mind.. (freudian slip). And harking back to the good old days with the goodyear slicks..

Have a Goodyear F1 slick (rear tyre), really ancient, used as a hifi stand / coffee table when the girlfriend is not watching (but that's totally irrelevant).
Understand what you're saying about the silver arrows and livery, just reminiscing about the good old glory days where Senna & prost would be at it together at the front. (the images of Mclaren I want to remember instead of the current low period)..
As for the tyres, (michelin's) of course.... Yeh it is a good idea that both mclaren & williams share their data, but this has only just started happening. And how do michelin produce a tyre which suits both until they get their cars kind of identical My view is that it is a compromise & in an ideal world (oh i'm not sarting down that track).... It clearly looks like Bridgestone focus very very heavily on ferrari (and I can understand why because of the success & glory associated), but I wonder how badly compromised (the other teams running Bridgestones) are when they use a tyre designed for use on a ferrari.
Rules need changing to make ferrari use egg shaped wheels.