View Full Version : Which product for new Black metallic?
I've been reading a lot on the forums here about Swissol products -the key selling point used justifying the price seems to be the use of carnuba wax, right?
I'm buying a new Leon FR in metallic black magic and wondered if someone can shed any light on which wax is the best to use. Whats the difference between Onyx wax £69.90 and with Saphir wax £98.90? (Starter kit prices)
Also how often do you apply the products i.e the wax 4-6 times a year or less?
Has anyone any experience of other waxes maybe less pricey with similar wax content, protection and shine?
I use the saphir wax and it is very good, I beleive the saphir has a higher canuba wax content. During the summer I use it every week, have a search through as theres loads of infor on it also http://www.swissol.com/E/GB/Produkte_Lack3.htm it tells you everything.
Tony spears
15-05-2005, 20:39
CH1 this is Tony i sponsor this forum and give 10% discount on swissol products.
Onyx wax has 30% carnauba wax compared to saphir at 40% ,the more carnauba wax the deeper the shine and protection.
Saphir is very popular on this forum but i have just got some zuffenhausen wax and that too contains 40% and i am well impressed with the results, it is very easy to apply and comes off with no effort also the shine is excellent .
Once you have done the full treatment and applied a couple of coats of wax i recc to top it up every 3 months and do full treatment once a year.
Zuffenhausen is only £1 more than saphir and i personally think its top stuff .
Give us a shout if you require any products
Cheers
Tony
Thanks Tony.
I was thinking to perhaps start with the Onyx wax..
In the description of the Onyx wax it says..
" Onyx Standard wax for all colours.
The perfectly balanced oil concentration prevents hazing on dark paint finishes, produces a brilliant, streak-free gloss and the high level of yellow Brazilian carnauba wax (30% by volume) gives dark colours (especially black) protection from scratches caused by dust and washing. "
emphasizing on the wording 'dark colours' I found in the description of the other waxes it doesn't mention dark colours,
http://www.swissol.com/E/GB/Produkte_Lack3.htm
I'm assuming the more the wax % the more the shine for all colours, but with dark colours can you get away with less % wax and more % wax for lighter colours eg platinum grey?
Thanks for your help. Will give you a mail when I get my car...which should be soon!
Tony when u do the full £200 valet would i get any product with that or is that just a valet price?
someone said u get the remainder of a starter kit?
Cheers
Alex
Tony spears
24-05-2005, 13:36
Tony when u do the full £200 valet would i get any product with that or is that just a valet price?
someone said u get the remainder of a starter kit?
Cheers
Alex
Thats for doing a full swissol treatment inside and out i will throw some car bath in.
Since posting this message I have had my Black Leon about 3 months now and from the other off topic thread http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65388 you may know my cars picked up a few scratches.
I have used some Meguairs nxt tech wax which says its supposed to elminate fine scratches and swirls. I have rubbed some on the scratches and its a bit better; well its coated, looks shiny so obviously the scratch is less visible. But the scratches are still visible to me.
before Meguairs nxt:-
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/connoisseur_h/Before.jpg
and the single long horizontal scratch down the side:-
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a...ghorizontal.jpg
after Meguairs nxt:-
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a...terDscf0335.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a..._h/Dscf0334.jpg
So as you can see its a lot better. My question is this as my car is still quite new
What products do you recommend for black metallic cars to clean, wax etc whilst protecting it and cover those small scratches?
So far I use: Triple wax car shampoo, Meguiars nxt tech wax, and recently bought some Turtle wax wheel clean -as I get an enormous amount of brake dust build up on front wheels which is a pain to clean -if anyone has any better recommendations for scratch cover up, general cleaning and cleaning alloys let me know! Cheers.
NXT contains fillers and just hides the scratches, after a couple of washes they come back.
If you're after some good stuff that doesn't cost alot, try some Poorboy's blue polish with carnauba and some blue Natty's wax, they only cost £10.49 and £13.99 each, the polish will remove minor scratches and deepen the colour, while the Natty's wax adds protection and a 'wet' look shine. Both are very easy to use, can use in direct sunlight on hot panels too, they give very, very good results. Here's mine after using the blue polish then blue Natty's wax at a recent car show:
http://www.20v-turbo.co.uk/images/events/kames/kam1.jpg
http://www.20v-turbo.co.uk/images/events/kames/kam2.jpg
The blue versions are for darker cars, regular for lighter colours. P21S is also an excellent wax that came top in a recent test of 50 waxes, only costs £18 too!
http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/sp/products/polish_wax.php
Tallpaul
05-09-2005, 19:46
NXT contains fillers and just hides the scratches, after a couple of washes they come back.
If you're after some good stuff that doesn't cost alot, try some Poorboy's blue polish with carnauba and some blue Natty's wax, they only cost £10.49 and £13.99 each, the polish will remove minor scratches and deepen the colour, while the Natty's wax adds protection and a 'wet' look shine. Both are very easy to use, can use in direct sunlight on hot panels too, they give very, very good results. Here's mine after using the blue polish then blue Natty's wax at a recent car show:
http://www.20v-turbo.co.uk/images/events/kames/kam1.jpg
http://www.20v-turbo.co.uk/images/events/kames/kam2.jpg
The blue versions are for darker cars, regular for lighter colours. P21S is also an excellent wax that came top in a recent test of 50 waxes, only costs £18 too!
http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/sp/products/polish_wax.php
As a preference, not worrying about price, would you use the Poorboys or P21-S Wax? I currently use Meguiars deep crystal wax on my Black Magic Leon - would i notice much difference?
I know it's fairly subjective but your opinion would be appreciated.
Having tried both I prefer Poorboy's Natty's wax. I'd say it's a league above the Meguiars.
Another outstanding product is Optimum Spray Wax, getting rave reviews everywhere, I have some and now use it alot, it combines sealant and wax in a spray, SO easy to use and leaves a very slick finish, I love it - seal and wax your car in 15 mins!
http://www.optimumcarcare.com/images/bluebottle2.jpg
http://www.optimumcarcare.com/optimumwax.html
I get it from Motorgeek, only £10.95: http://www.motorgeek.co.uk/exterior-polishes-waxes-sealants-c-21_26.html
Cheers Robdon. Will look into getting some Poorboy Polish to remove the scratches.
Just finished waxing my car (with the usual Meguairs Nxt tech wax) car looks great but...on a clean car the former scratches show up more clearly!No doubt I'll see how bad they are and if I missed bits in the morning! too dark now and was using a torch..
NXT contains fillers and just hides the scratches, after a couple of washes they come back.
If you're after some good stuff that doesn't cost alot, try some Poorboy's blue polish with carnauba and some blue Natty's wax, they only cost £10.49 and £13.99 each, the polish will remove minor scratches and deepen the colour, while the Natty's wax adds protection and a 'wet' look shine. Both are very easy to use, can use in direct sunlight on hot panels too, they give very, very good results. Here's mine after using the blue polish then blue Natty's wax at a recent car show:
http://www.20v-turbo.co.uk/images/events/kames/kam1.jpg
The blue versions are for darker cars, regular for lighter colours. P21S is also an excellent wax that came top in a recent test of 50 waxes, only costs £18 too!
http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/sp/products/polish_wax.php
Just to confirm again will the Poorboy's blue polish with carnauba be ok to use on a newish car 4 months old? So far I have been using the Meguairs NXT which is ok short term but as you say after a few washes the scratches are still there.
So any suggestions on how I would start? Wash car, then apply this polish followed by Natty’s wax or P21-S Wax? Any preference over Natty’s or P21-S wax on dark metallic colours? or need to remove previous wax with anything else?
Lastly, been hearing about this Klasse A10 would this be better than using the Natty’s Blue polish for small scratches and base before waxing?
Another problem I constantly have is smearing when I am waxing any tips to void smearing ??–guess I need a totally clean surface void of damp/other grease to work on before I wax!
NickSmith
18-10-2005, 14:37
Hi CH1,
I have a '52 Black Magic Leon, with the usual, expected scratches and very light swirling etc; I asked RobDon for his recommendations, and it's all been good so far:
To wash it: if you're putting waxes etc. on, you don't wanna strip them off! Either Poorboys or Optimum shampoos leave waxes alone, apparently - I have the Optimum, and it smells like some sort of sweets, very nice.
Waxing etc:
- I used Klasse AIO (All In One) sealant as a base-coat; this leaves the 'bare' paintwork with a glassy finish, and a deep, cold black shine; it also smoothed out the many small scratches I had inside the "wells" behind the door handles, possibly made by people with rings on opening the doors. Apparently, this has a very minor cutting action, which should lift off old waxes etc. Very easy on/off - quarter-panel at a time with an applicator pad, a minute or so to 'haze', then buff off with a microfibre cloth.
- Step 2: Poorboys EX sealant, with carnuba wax; again, a sealant, but I suppose this will start to repel water etc (which the Klasse did); after this layer is on, I'd say the shine was just as "shiny", but slightly softer. It's hard to explain, sorry!! Apply as above, but you can apply to a couple of panels before it hazes properly.
- Next week: Poorboy's "Natty's Blue" paste wax - now the car is sealed, the paste wax will build up protection over the sealants, I suppose. Application looks easy, kind of like the others above. Then, the Optimum spray wax specified above, after every couple of washes.
I'm just really happy that I'm gonna be keeping the old girl in rude health over the winter. There are some pics of mine in the 'SEAT Pictures' forum - "Leon Cupra with fresh Klasse AIO".
With regard to smearing - some products recommend dampening your applicator pad, and 'less is more' - just a little on the pad (maybe a little splodge the size of a 2p), spread it out as far as you can, let it haze properly, then buff off with a microfibre. If it's dry, it should polish straight off, rather than you having to chase it off the paintwork. It should feel dry, rather than sticky, when you buff it off.
WX51 TXR
20-10-2005, 20:53
Very nice advice Nick, spot on, except on metallic black I would got for Poorboys EX-P rather than EX. EX is great on flat colours, but EX-P really brings out the flake, especially when topped with Natty's Blue. :)
I agree, EX has carnauba in it which tends to mute flakes, use a pure sealant like EX-P, Detailer's Pride, Wolfgang Deep Gloss, etc. and it will sparkle!
Thanks!
So here’s the plan after 1) washing ...
2) Polishing -I use either PoorBoys blue polish with carnauba or Klasse AIO (to prepare the surface for waxing and hide some of the minor scratches I have on drivers side door opening).
3)Optional –I may or may not use a sealant e.g. Poorboy’s EX-P SEALANT followed by some. Whats the advantages?
4) waxing
e.g. blue Natty's wax,
It’s a long job isn’t it?!
I’ve been tempted by some of the Wolfgang products anyone tried these? Are they easy to use/apply with great results?
I’m wondering why the most successful car detailing products are American hence almost double the price when bought in sterling pounds like Poorboys for example that stuff only costs about 10-11 dollars compared to the £12-£13 in UK!
anyone doing discounts for SCN members for any of the above :D
mark@carsparkle
25-10-2005, 23:29
If you are going to do all of the above and if you do it properly it can take a good 5+ hours to do [B)]
As for the $ > £ prices, we do tend to avoid that cliche as much as we can (eg $33 dollars for the P21S wax but 18.50 over here - not including 15% discount etc) but the shipping and vat (they actually charge vat over the shipping cost too!) can take up a serious slice of the total cost.
Mark
I wouldn't use PB blue polish under a sealant, it contains wax and the sealant will not bond to the paint properly. AIO is fine though as it doesn't contain any wax.
good point about the sealant. I've decided to skip the sealant (and Klasse for now as the brand name is a bit too expensive in UK for me anyway) so for now will just do Poorboys, what an appropriate name :D
If you're after some good stuff that doesn't cost alot, try some Poorboy's blue polish with carnauba and some blue Natty's wax, they only cost £10.49 and £13.99 each, the polish will remove minor scratches and deepen the colour, while the Natty's wax adds protection and a 'wet' look shine. Both are very easy to use, can use in direct sunlight on hot panels too, they give very, very good results. Here's mine after using the blue polish then blue Natty's wax at a recent car show:
<snip>
The blue versions are for darker cars, regular for lighter colours. P21S is also an excellent wax that came top in a recent test of 50 waxes, only costs £18 too!
http://www.seriousperformance.co.uk/sp/products/polish_wax.php
Hey, My Poorboys Order just turned up -as promised from the above site. I'm so excited can't wait to get started hope it doesn't rain much today :)
dont forget www.motorgeek.co.uk who are giving a 5% discount to SCN Members
cheers for that. Though in my case even after 5% or 10% discount it worked out a few quid cheaper at the other site as 1st class delivery was included.
What can I say I am amazed after using Poorboys polish -it’s so easy to use and apply and the results very shiny. And eh yeah it does have that funny fruity small a bit like bubblegum!
The application of Nattys wax afterwards didn't enhance the shine further in my experience but added another layer of protection. It took so long washing, drying, polishing the car and making kebabs and baking a cake in between that I only waxed the front (Nattys)... too tired after 5+ hours.
Although the shine was great with Poorboys it didn't do anything for the scratches I'd say in fact that the Meguiars NXT covered them up better, the PB polish seemed to highlight them further :rolleyes:
ok this is before cleaning , note a very dirty car!
[IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/connoisseur_h/Dscf0838.jpg
then after washing and polishing one half (Left side):-
[[IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/connoisseur_h/Dscf0839.jpg
and overall after PB polish -sorry pic is a bit out of focus![IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/connoisseur_h/Dscf0841a.jpg
and close up of PB polish + PB Natty's on front only:-
[IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/connoisseur_h/Dscf0840.jpg
So shiny -yes, but cover up scratches No!
sad thing is as soon as I finished it...it rained and I got slashed in mud driving on the A50 at the weekend, so its not quite like that anymore...still not bad till it lasted.
Will take some more pics when its more clearer.
oh yeah the cake didn't turn out too bad either :) (tasted a lot better than it looks!) a bit snowed under..
[IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/connoisseur_h/Dscf0843.jpg
Tallpaul
01-11-2005, 14:44
looks good mate. I use the same products on my black magic leon, but i've found much the same as you - you'll get the car looking beautiful and shiny but it doesn't stand up to really close inspection. from what i read it takes a lot of work to get down to that level of perfection, plus i've got some deep scratches that show through to the white undercoat [:@]
i'm happy with the finish the poorboys blue polish and wax gets, i really don't have the time to spend getting it any better than that.
WX51 TXR
01-11-2005, 19:08
Ok, now you've seen what the sealant and wax can do, next thing to sort out is the swirls and fine scratches (obviously deeper scratches can only be gotten rid of by respraying). Pure polishes and sealants/waxes shouldn't be relied on to fill all of these imperfections, as the fillers will be progressively washed out and all of the flaws will become visible again within months. Poorboys products are actually thought of highly because they don't contain a high percentage of fillers - lower quality products rely on them to give the appearance of working miracles, but who wants a miracle that disappears over time? It isn't as hard as you think to remove swirls, but you will need to invest in a randon orbital buffer, preferably a Porter Cable 7224. Use one of these with Poorboys Super Swirl Removers prior to polishing and the swirls will be gone for good. Shame I'm so far away otherwise I'd give you a free demo and sort it for you. Since I got my PC last summer I've not looked back - it's an easy tool to use, not that expensive, and allows you to fairly easily achieve a perfect finish. All it would take is an afternoon. :)
Ok, now you've seen what the sealant and wax can do, next thing to sort out is the swirls and fine scratches (obviously deeper scratches can only be gotten rid of by respraying). Pure polishes and sealants/waxes shouldn't be relied on to fill all of these imperfections, as the fillers will be progressively washed out and all of the flaws will become visible again within months. Poorboys products are actually thought of highly because they don't contain a high percentage of fillers - lower quality products rely on them to give the appearance of working miracles, but who wants a miracle that disappears over time? It isn't as hard as you think to remove swirls, but you will need to invest in a randon orbital buffer, preferably a Porter Cable 7224. Use one of these with Poorboys Super Swirl Removers prior to polishing and the swirls will be gone for good. Shame I'm so far away otherwise I'd give you a free demo and sort it for you. Since I got my PC last summer I've not looked back - it's an easy tool to use, not that expensive, and allows you to fairly easily achieve a perfect finish. All it would take is an afternoon. :)
Cheers WX51. I didn't use a sealant at all in the end, just wash, polish and wax.
I don't have any swirls, just some scratches (and chips!), some scratches are superficial just on the surface, one scratc has taken the paint off so you can see the white. I had thought about the swirl removers from the PB range for the scrtaches but do you have to use a PC?? or can it be done by hand?
(I am actually going to see SEAT about the high rate of chips on paintwork as it seems to higher than what I expected in a car just a few months old, maybe the paint is too soft?!)
WX51 TXR
11-11-2005, 13:42
You can remove swirls and scratches by hand but (a) it's bloody hard work and (b) you risk adding more swirls, as your hand action is not as random as a buffer. I'd have a go at small scratches with Megs Scratch X by foam applicator. Brazo posted the link below which is excellent...
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7011
:)