View Full Version : Temporary Rollcages???
Is there such a thing as a temporary rollcage that you can put in for things like trackdays and take back out afterwards?
Obviously I wouldn't want any welding or mods to the car, although I wouldn't mind attaching the cage to existing bolts etc.
If there is such a thing, then where can I get one?
Cheers
Ben
heard that dimma do cosmetic ones for the saxo clan, but not sure if they are functional or not,worth a look though:cheers:
ibizacupra
29-05-2002, 18:48
Never seen one to be honest.
Even bolt in cages need welded plates to reinforce to bolt to, and installing them is'nt an easy or quick job.
You planning on rolling then Ben? :(
Bill
hopkinsgm
30-05-2002, 01:28
As anyone who's ever tried to fit one will know, even bolt in cages are a pain in the ass to fit, and as Bill says you'd need to weld in mounting points. Think about it - any structure is only as strong as its' foundations. In the case of a rollcage, the foundations are the shell, and specifically the mounting points. To provide any protection, a roll cage needs to be very stong. A strong thing which is not strongly attached is useless. Mounting plates spread the loads exerted on the cage (MSA Blue Book specifies minimum plate sizes for competition use).
In an ideal world, a rollcage should also strengthen the structure as a whole, giving a stronger platform for the suspension to operate from. It may sound bizarre but this can actually work against you - I have a friend who drives a Westfield with a full FIA cage which has stiffened the chassis up no end, making the handling far tighter. The downside is that the car is now so stiff that it rattles the wheelnuts (and just about everything else) loose. Bear in mind also how a cage acheives it's aims - by spreading forces, so in the event of an incident the whole shell would be damaged rather than localised damage. A well designed half-cage MAY offer some roll protection if properly attached (not a temporary job) at the expense of the rear seat.
It's not the answer you want to hear but as far as i'm aware there is no such thing as a temporary rollcage and if there were, i'd have grave doubts about how effective it would be. Sorry Ben,
G
Originally posted by jason
heard that dimma do cosmetic ones for the saxo clan, but not sure if they are functional or not,worth a look though:cheers:
The dimma ones are made of cheese - purely cosmetic and a PILE OF SHITE WASTE OF TIME
Cheers
Rob
you should be able to get one without the rear diagnol, or a bolt in diagnol that would not be too intrusive.
http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL97/465862/737945/9104675.ptp
check this in Paul horrocks 4wd vr6 mk2
http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL97/465862/737945/9104546.ptp
try this if the pic doesent work
You planning on rolling then Ben?
Not planning on it no, but I've seen and heard of a few people rolling their cars on track days and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm too good to make a mistake. Most people that goto track days will occasionally go off or spin, and then its just down to luck on whether or not the tyres dig in whilst you're going sideways and flip you over.
I have a good avi of a bloke in his Impreza on a trackday with an in car camera... goes around one corner (Powersliding deliberately), then the next and then on the 3rd he powerslides as per normal but for some reason the outside wheels just got too much grip and the car rolled over!!!! After a couple of seconds upside down the bloke shouts "F*CK!!!". I hope he had trackday insurance!
Anway, one thing I noticed on the ENCAP crash tests was that they showed concerns over the Ibizas build quality, which means that two identical cars car behave completely differently in identical accidents because different parts would give way first.
hopkinsgm, I hear what you are saying about needing a good foundation and I agree, to an extent. The fact still remains that you occasionally see very nasty accidents on the roads where the whole car has been flattened to about 1 foot high... if there was an unsecured rollcage in there then the car would probably be in better shape... maybe not as good as with a proper secured one but still better than none at all.
Cheers everyone,
BTW, prof, your link says forbidden.
Thanks
Ben
ibizacupra
02-06-2002, 11:07
Originally posted by BenS1
Not planning on it no, but I've seen and heard of a few people rolling their cars on track days and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm too good to make a mistake. Most people that goto track days will occasionally go off or spin, and then its just down to luck on whether or not the tyres dig in whilst you're going sideways and flip you over.
I have a good avi of a bloke in his Impreza on a trackday with an in car camera... goes around one corner (Powersliding deliberately), then the next and then on the 3rd he powerslides as per normal but for some reason the outside wheels just got too much grip and the car rolled over!!!! After a couple of seconds upside down the bloke shouts "F*CK!!!". I hope he had trackday insurance!
Anway, one thing I noticed on the ENCAP crash tests was that they showed concerns over the Ibizas build quality, which means that two identical cars car behave completely differently in identical accidents because different parts would give way first.
hopkinsgm, I hear what you are saying about needing a good foundation and I agree, to an extent. The fact still remains that you occasionally see very nasty accidents on the roads where the whole car has been flattened to about 1 foot high... if there was an unsecured rollcage in there then the car would probably be in better shape... maybe not as good as with a proper secured one but still better than none at all.
Cheers everyone,
BTW, prof, your link says forbidden.
Thanks
Ben
I take your point Ben, but the tracks I have been on, and track days, I have only seen 2 rolls. One at Goodwood earlier this year with a Mustang 5.0ltr.... Too fast into the first corner, slid wide, onto grass, into tyres and armco, and a slow roll - Oops! 100% driver error.
The 2nd one was this year at Blyton of all places in the most weird place... A scirocco (well shagged to begin with) somehow drove/slid wide on a very wide exit corner, caught a small verge and rolled into the adjacent field. Minimal damage and the driver was OK. He carried on in the PM around the track also.
I would be very surprised if the stock wheels/tyres could generate enough grip ro flip the car due to grip. I think I have seen the video/mpg you mentioned and it looked well nasty. (somewhere in France was'nt it?)
If you want a cage for piece of mind, Custom Cages have doen them for Seat UK for their track Ibiza's and these were bolt in, with removable door bars I believe. Maybe a removable diaganol would also be possible.
regards
Bill
hopkinsgm
02-06-2002, 22:26
As Bill says, the odds of rolling are fairly low. The main point of a rollcage is to make the whole structure more rigid, and if it's a temporary installation you're unlikely to achieve this.
As for an improperly installed cage being of more value than no cage at all, I can kind of see where you're coming from Ben and to a point I agree. However, a cage will not be able to do its' job if it breaks loose of a mounting point, and you run the risk of holing the floorpan.
Rollcages, as with all safety items, are an area where it is foolish (IMO) to compromise, so it's either a full time cage with removable diagonals and/or door bars to make it a bit more practical or no cage at all. Also bear in mind that the vast majority of insurers would run a mile if you mention that you have a cage fitted in an everyday road car. And those that don't will gladly relieve you of a substantial chunk of cash...
G
Only info i could find on rollcages was on the omp site where they list a full-on weld in jobby, bit OTT methinks.
APR did have one out of their Ibiza (ex-SEAT track car) dont know what happened to that. Could of been sold
I know Pete Croney of Scoobysport was doing one for Imprezas. You needed to have the relevant mounting points fitted - thereafter it bolts down and diagonal bolts accross.
Never seen one "in the flesh", but I believe they are pretty good (cost approx £350 I believe....depended on a "group buy" type of thingybob).
Worth remembering that you can only fit at the event ~ your insurance will be invalid if you have a cage fitted. This seems crazy, but I guess it does alter the structural integriy of the car (hopefully to better protect you!), but it'll cause crumple zones to collapse in different ways etc etc..... (?)
Cheers everyone.
I guess I'll take my chances like everyone else. I wouldn't really have a problem with a perminant cage, except I take passengers in the back so I can't remove the back seats and I don't want to do anything that will make the car more difficult to sell when I eventually want to.
Ben
ibizacupra
05-06-2002, 08:24
Originally posted by hopkinsgm
As Bill says, the odds of rolling are fairly low. The main point of a rollcage is to make the whole structure more rigid, and if it's a temporary installation you're unlikely to achieve this.
G
Amazingly there was a roll yesterday at Bedford Autodrome.. Palmer Motorsport.
A Cossy powered 4x4 Mondeo (special) managed to roll itself in the only gravel on the whole 3.6 mile circuit..
So it can happen!
Never seen any rolls in my 9 years of track days/sprinting.
3 this year to date! Oops!
Too much Red Mist perhaps?
Bill
Originally posted by ibizacupra
If you want a cage for piece of mind, Custom Cages have doen them for Seat UK for their track Ibiza's and these were bolt in, with removable door bars I believe. Maybe a removable diaganol would also be possible.
regards
Bill
These cages require quite a few weld-in plates etc for fitment, as has been said earlier its not a simple bolt in job - how do I know, I have one of said cars.
Cheers
Rob
RobT
have you still got the old management setup? I'm after some stuff for my ABF transplant.
Originally posted by prof
RobT
have you still got the old management setup? I'm after some stuff for my ABF transplant.
What bits are you after ?
Rob
ibizacupra
06-06-2002, 15:54
Custom Cages available.
I know of a "Custom Cages", Full Ibiza 20VT cage and rear half cage is available. Prices to be posted shortly.
Previously fitted by Seat UK to their track cars.
Also other parts to be available as a clearance sale of sorts. I will post the details also shortly when they are listed etc.
Ben.. Its worth an enquiry perhaps?
They are proper cages.
regards
Bill
Rob, were you running Luminition ECU before the throttle bodies?
I need original Throttle body/airbox, ECU, Potentiometer, loom etc. My ABF came without quite a few bits to get it going.
Cheers
ps personal message thingy dosen't seem to work
Originally posted by prof
Rob, were you running Luminition ECU before the throttle bodies?
I need original Throttle body/airbox, ECU, Potentiometer, loom etc. My ABF came without quite a few bits to get it going.
Cheers
ps personal message thingy dosen't seem to work
I changed my car to lumenition ecu prior to throttle bodies. Then, when I fitted the TB's, the lumenition system was remapped and wired up to run them.
Bits I have is the original ECU, the intake manifold (upper and lower parts) with throttle body, throttle potentiometer, airbox and various bits of ducting (airbox fitted with a K+N and the bottom drilled). The original loom was cut up for the lumenition ECU install.
If you want any of the bits make me an offer.
Cheers
Rob
Rob, I've no idea what they are worth, Do you know if the ECU uses a transponder in the key like the VW one?
Probably just need t`body,t`pot and airbox, e-mail me and we`ll haggle.
cheers