View Full Version : 250cc Kart
One of the guys I live with just bought a 250cc go Kart yesterday
we took it up to a local 'private' industrial estate today to see what it was like.
nice few corners & a long straight (400m ish)
this thing is rapid. I mean 5 speed sequential that I only got into 4th just before mashing on the brakes. a long first gear makes you think it is slow - then the power band kicks in & all hell breaks loose - rear wheels scrabble for grip & your head gets kicked back - punch the lever forward for 2nd & you think you didn't change cos it's got no lag & just does the same, ditto for 3rd.
then hard on the 3 discs to brake HARD before the road & dip the clutch & dump it to get the back end snaking everywhere.
Luckily he has another one in bits to build up - but he wants to find a 500cc Crosser engine first!
Anyone any ideas on how fast these little things go cos we reckoned on the 400m being done in very few seconds from standing....
Mark (still shaking)
Originally posted by MarkP
One of the guys I live with just bought a 250cc go Kart yesterday
we took it up to a local 'private' industrial estate today to see what it was like.
nice few corners & a long straight (400m ish)
this thing is rapid. I mean 5 speed sequential that I only got into 4th just before mashing on the brakes. a long first gear makes you think it is slow - then the power band kicks in & all hell breaks loose - rear wheels scrabble for grip & your head gets kicked back - punch the lever forward for 2nd & you think you didn't change cos it's got no lag & just does the same, ditto for 3rd.
then hard on the 3 discs to brake HARD before the road & dip the clutch & dump it to get the back end snaking everywhere.
Luckily he has another one in bits to build up - but he wants to find a 500cc Crosser engine first!
Anyone any ideas on how fast these little things go cos we reckoned on the 400m being done in very few seconds from standing....
Mark (still shaking)
I have had a go on these several times and they are without doubt the fastest car I have been in to 60mph - the top speed depends on the bodywork - there is high downforce 'longtrack' bodywork that is used for regular car racetracks and then 'short-track' bodywork for regular kart tracks - 130-140mph is possible with the right gearing at car tracks and a 250cc twin cylinder 'international superkart' still holds the lap record of oulton park I think - it did for some time.
Anyone interested in trying this you can do so for £250 for 4 x 15min sessions at Jade Karts near Daventry.
Cheers
Rob
only up the road. I think that's where we're off to on Saturday in it.
140.... hmmm - I can see a use for the new unopened bit of the A43 already :D
M
hopkinsgm
10-06-2002, 12:57
Gearbox karts? I shudder to think... Oi Phelps! Nutter! :D
G
I tell you Glyn - it was amazing how fast this thing accelerated. we'll have to stick the fairings & wings on for next time - the wind was too much for the Crosser helmet as it got too high & lifter your head back.
Reckon I might borrow it for Curby if the Polo isn't ready :D
M
mark bring it to curby,rather drive that than my car:cheers:
He said I can borrow it as he can't be arsed to drive there
Mad fool
just can't work out how to get it there as it's not small :p
superkarter250
27-07-2005, 16:37
Hi all,
thought this thread worth while to register so that i can fill you in on some details of superkarts
A "gearbox kart" or superkart as they are known in long circuit format either come in 125cc 210cc or 250cc 2 stroke engine formats from 45bhp up to a staggering 90bhp for a 250twin cylinder. The engines are usually motocross engines such as CR250 and then ragged up in power from 45bhp (stock) to 64bhp for a cr250. A SGM twin are pushing over 90bhp, but suprisingly only will lap silverstone GP circuit a sec or two quicker like for like driver than a single for an extra 30bhp!!!!
To say these are fast is an understatment. They lap most UK long circuits in around the same time as a modern F3 car (donnington without melbourne superkart - 1:07 F3 - 1:04. Its not the top speed (although a twin driven by shaw at hockenhiem was clocked at 171mph) or its acceleartion (a Zip Eagle twin driven by Martin Hines in motorsport news 2003 beat the jordan F3 standing start to 100mph) but its stopping power and cornering that counts. It stops so violently tears are pulled from your tear ducts. It corners like a jet fighter plane and truley pulls G force only seen on a track from F1.
I have seen a video with a not really sorted kart out accellerating a R1 up to 120mph. It has been said that a superkart has been geared to go under 2secs to 60mph. Absolutely rocket stuff and without a strong headrest your brain will liable to do 180deg in your skull.
The most successful chassis manufacturer at the moment is anderson, but F1, PVP, Raider and Jade all make them.
You can purchase a used one from £2500 complete or up to £7000 for a new complete single CR250 on an Anderson chassis. A twin Zip eagle complete are around £12000. so F3 speed performance for £2500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can race either long circuit club at Darley moor or the F250 challenge after getting your kart licence natB at Silverstone GP circuit, Donington, MAllory, brands or race in the British Championship with NatA (providing you qualify and are good enough) you can also go onto the European championship or World championship (based in Usa) and race along side Eddie Lawson, Wayne rainy and former 500cc world motorcycle champions.
A superkart takes seconds of MOTOGP at cadwell and hold the OUTRIGHT lap record.
You either need to have a numb brain, balls made of titanuim or plenty of pairs of spare pants to race these things! :-o
They are not recommended for short gokart tracks, the highway or airfields but at home at silverstone GP circuit 1inch from the floor and not that far off F1 lap times.
David coultard said its the scariest thing he has ever done.
see www.superkart.org.uk
www.superkarttrackdays.com
A Seatcupra.net kart championship me thinks
Is this the oldest thread ever dragged up?
I was about to say "since when did you have lodgers" to m0rk! :D
It does sound fun though!
It's that old it's nearly before m0rk developed sarcasm!
Ive had a go of my mates british championship 125cc gearbox kart. With a 6 speed sequntial box and have to say it is bloody rapid.
I can only imagine how much faster a 250 is! I was told the 250cc karts go round silverstone faster than F1 cars :-o 150+ my mate mentioned.
I was seriously considering racing one but couldn't justify the expense. It would cost more than buying a leon plus mods to a least having a chance of winning for one season.
Oh i've also seen a 125 kart crash at a race meet. It was a rolling start and the guy smashed into the back of another kart. Ripped off the front disc brake an wheel. It must of been some acceleration.
Seen the guy get taken away in an amublance. The guy had whip lash.
i have a friend who used to be some sort of uk karting champ a few years back , 80's or so i think ........... all of em are crazy , he is a superb driver too.
He has a kart now .. i think 250 .. and says it does about 140 or so ... nuts...
superkarter250
28-07-2005, 08:43
Yumann - you can buy a used outfit from ebay for £900 (i wouldnt) or a decent ex race winners for around """"""""£2500""""""""". race fees are £75 darley or £150 silverstone GP circuit. set of new tyres £40 ex race old or new £120. Yes its money but for F3 performance and in motorsport terms its peanuts.
I would say £500 per meeting is a good allround figure to budget to include fees, fuel a hamburger, tyres etc etc etc
another benefit is that you can do 90% of the work yourself without major mechanical capability (2 stroke) as they are really like a big mechano sets.
To win in these things its not about expense so much its about driver skill / bravery and most important experience.
- quicker than F1 around silvesrtone is an exaggeration but i only think around 7 secs on GP slower so not that far off the slower drivers.
Brett - whats his name i might know him?
£500 a meet thats not bad actually cheap. My friend Gino was spending at least double that in the british championship meets.
His engine even has a name. Think it was called shearer. Very speical engine it was too.
Its a works engine if thats what you call it in kart racing.
He races in the tkm class now.
Guys name is Mick ... cant remember his surname now , he is 40 now i think and raced in the eighties i believe...
I'm surprised Mark Sheerin hasn't had an input in this thread, as he did, or still does kart.
He's probably too busy flirting with Nyteshade to notice! ;) (just kidding!)
Tavia4x4
28-07-2005, 11:31
So, instead of proper race meets, is there a kart equivalent of a trackday, testing day etc, to get some use on a budget before commiting to a race series?
superkarter250
28-07-2005, 11:58
Tavia4x4 - yes they have been to silverstone, teeside autodrome, donington.
i think next it is croft on 26th August and cadwel on the 2nd sept.
Get one... plonk it upright against a garage wall..buy a small trailer....a set of leathers of ebay....and go and rip your head off... :-)
superkarter250
28-07-2005, 12:10
yumann- £175 entry (top circuit)...£60 controlled fuel...£60 tyres(only the very best and where money no object swap them every meet)...£100 budget new piston/rings for top end...£100 fuel expenses to get to meet / food etc...£495.00 the other real expense is wear and tear general £200 per meet max??? and depreciation of machine.... Generally the newer the machine the less each meet will cost if that makes sence. i.e my new motor and chassis last time out only needed a new powervalve pin all meeting which cost £12:50 with the brand new 2004 engine and chassis total cost was £5900 but in a season will depreciate maybe by £1500-£2000
superkarter250
28-07-2005, 12:37
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9883&item=4565057587&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9883&item=4564305554&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
mark sheerin
28-07-2005, 12:47
I'm surprised Mark Sheerin hasn't had an input in this thread, as he did, or still does kart.
He's probably too busy flirting with Nyteshade to notice! ;) (just kidding!)
Oh my karting is in a much lower league to these guys.......
cheaper and slower....
I do short circuit racing where costs and speed are much lower...
My enjoyment is from the overtaking and beating of the other drivers....
The thrills don't come from the outright speed allthough cornering is still fairly physical compared to driving any road car..much more grip...
So much so that its hard to breathe in on long fast bends where I usually just hold my breath till I'm on the next straight..
Tavia4x4
28-07-2005, 12:59
Tavia4x4 - yes they have been to silverstone, teeside autodrome, donington.
i think next it is croft on 26th August and cadwel on the 2nd sept.
Get one... plonk it upright against a garage wall..buy a small trailer....a set of leathers of ebay....and go and rip your head off... :-)
Been thinking about a track toy (car) that would not be mot'd etc and off the road, but would take up room in the garage, that sounds like a much much better bet for track fun.
Who organises the track sessions, any links?
yumann- £175 entry (top circuit)...£60 controlled fuel...£60 tyres(only the very best and where money no object swap them every meet)...£100 budget new piston/rings for top end...£100 fuel expenses to get to meet / food etc...£495.00 the other real expense is wear and tear general £200 per meet max??? and depreciation of machine.... Generally the newer the machine the less each meet will cost if that makes sence. i.e my new motor and chassis last time out only needed a new powervalve pin all meeting which cost £12:50 with the brand new 2004 engine and chassis total cost was £5900 but in a season will depreciate maybe by £1500-£2000
Isnt there 3 heats to a meet and require 3 sets of tires?
mark sheerin
28-07-2005, 19:24
Isnt there 3 heats to a meet and require 3 sets of tires?
Most meetings allow only one set of tyres per race meeting and they stamp them after qualifying where I race so you can't use more than one set..
Even the tyres for my slow kart are £110 a set..
But they aren't totally ruined after a meeting and you can still use them for practice days..
Wets are worst because its impossible to get a set to last a full meeting..
My race day consists of
practice
qualifying
1st heat
2nd heat
3rd heat
prefinal
final
about 1 hr 45mins track time for me in a race meeting entry fee £30
I wonder how much it costs to put Mr Schumi on a track for the 2hrs of a grand prix?
Most meetings allow only one set of tyres per race meeting and they stamp them after qualifying where I race so you can't use more than one set..
Even the tyres for my slow kart are £110 a set..
But they aren't totally ruined after a meeting and you can still use them for practice days..
Wets are worst because its impossible to get a set to last a full meeting..
My race day consists of
practice
qualifying
1st heat
2nd heat
3rd heat
prefinal
final
about 1 hr 45mins track time for me in a race meeting entry fee £30
I wonder how much it costs to put Mr Schumi on a track for the 2hrs of a grand prix?
Yeah my mate says the wets get ruined on a semi dry track.
What class do you race in Mark? Rotax
Don't the f1 cars cost like £1500 a lap in qualifying. And thats why they scraped the old 12 lap qualifying sessions.
mark sheerin
28-07-2005, 23:38
Not Rotax but a new class just started this year..World Formula...
The chassis are good but the engines are Rubbish...
I'm swapping to Rotax for next year...
superkarter250
29-07-2005, 08:46
i wouldnt bother with the ebay stuff not modern and liable to be a pile of crap!!! best place to buy is ex racers, superkarttrackdays or www.karting.co.uk
Tavia4x4 - www.superkarttrackdays.com
mark - "So much so that its hard to breathe in on long fast bends where I usually just hold my breath till I'm on the next straight"
We tend to have to hold our breath for the 20minute race. as corners we pull near F1 g force and straights when you change gear its like a horse kicking you in the back and when you brake then its shovel in the face time...:-). Its almost funny at the end of a superkart race as all drivers are doubled over without an ounce of energy remaining - you dont get that in F1 just shows you how fit they are.
With regard to tyres... The ~~TOP~~ boys will use a set of slicks or wets per meeting. cost £120.00. Me at say darley being a mid runner will use either a new set for around 2/3 meets or an ex top boys tyres for one meet cost £40.00. For a trackday user an ex top boys tyres will last maybe 3/4 trackdays.
the starting point is to trackday and then from there darley moor clubman racing and from there who knows.
http://www.longcircuit-racingkart-club.co.uk/
To give you another idea of costs i have just got a 2nd hand Cr250 for a spare..........
(2001 as that is what all the racers have due to its tunability - 2002 swapped to crankcase induction and down around 5bhp on power but much more durable..good for trackdayers)
................. for £1100 which included 2 piece head, 39vhsb carb, Vforce reed block, brand new gearbox parts/rebuilt with new main shaft, PVL ignition tuned barrel and making around 64bhp ready to go.
Doesnt make sense, does it, an engine for £1000 that will ultimately be quicker in its format than an F3 engine and machine for £100k..or more???
In general the ~~~~top~~~~ boys can run the Brtitish championship on £10,000 per year budget. Viper racing will hire you a machine for all rounds just turn up and go for £7000 a year. You could do Darley for maybe £2000 per year.
The pinnacle of "gokarting" is FormulaA (route for kids to F1) where there a budget is up to £100k per year,
Superkarts are almost a void from "gokarting" and it is the intermediate between single seater and karting... but will pummle most single seaters up to F3
superkarter250
29-07-2005, 08:49
""""""""""""ultimately be quicker in its format than an F3 engine and machine for £100k..or more???"""""""""""""""
sorry thats obvoiusly on certain tracks not all tracks..