View Full Version : Max power from a 2L 16V
Hi All
Following a prompt from Mark P - I looked through the latest CCC last night and Dave Walker replied to a letter from an Aussie asking whats possible with a 2L 16V. Dave reckons 200BHP is the max you will get without forced induction.
Now I know thats not the max but who else has or knows of people with normally aspirated 2L 16V's with 200bhp or more ? Please try and limit guesses and stick to proven power outputs. Ta.
I feel a response letter coming on ......
Cheers
Rob
ibizacupra
18-06-2002, 11:04
Originally posted by RobT
Hi All
Following a prompt from Mark P - I looked through the latest CCC last night and Dave Walker replied to a letter from an Aussie asking whats possible with a 2L 16V. Dave reckons 200BHP is the max you will get without forced induction.
Now I know thats not the max but who else has or knows of people with normally aspirated 2L 16V's with 200bhp or more ? Please try and limit guesses and stick to proven power outputs. Ta.
I feel a response letter coming on ......
Cheers
Rob
I read that..
Total horse shite I thought.
Someone should tell VW motorsport and Lehman (sp) engines that they did'nt actually get 270bhp in tarmac spec and 300bhp in tarmac spec from their Grp A engines.
Even the Grp N motors produced 220bhp I believe. (somewhere I had the VW Motorsport catalogue and specs... You could buy these engines out of a catalogue !!! given sufficent wedge :D
regards
Bill
I can't see it's all that different from the Vauxhall Ecotec which has similar figures once you start to tune it - it's just that MORE people retrofit them into Westies etc.
Yeah i read this in CCC, got it here in front of me.
And i qoute for all those interested :)
Q. I have a 1998 SEAT Cupra (2 Litre 16v 150bhp) which i use for supersprints and the like, and was wondering how well these VW engines respond to a little careful massaging: such as heads, cams, EMS etc. i am looking for 220bhp-240bhp, and I am seriously considering turbocharging, as reliability is still very high on the agenda.
Mr Walkers answer:
A. I believe this is the Golf 16v engine here and i have to say that it isn't a brilliant engine in aspirated form. If you want over 200bhp you are going to havce to pressure charge the engine. Personally i don't like turbo engines for competition use, they are hard to drive perhaps you are a much better driver than i am.
Have you thought about nitrous oxide?
In my opinion that seems a pretty half arsed answer :p
cordobabrendy
18-06-2002, 12:07
but tell me how many miles to the gallon are lost!! apart from money to have it done, thats whats stopping me!!:devil: :mad:
even though its 200+ brake, what is the torque figures like ?
Originally posted by ZBOYD
In my opinion that seems a pretty half arsed answer :p
He is seeming to come up with some not useful answers. which is a shame. mine you he used to work for fast car some years back :p
cordobabrendy
18-06-2002, 12:32
surely nitrous is even harder to drive seeing as it comes in pretty hard , suppose you could fettle it to be more gently to start with, but then you can do that with a turbo too, supercharging is like that from standard as the more you rev it the more charge it throws into the engine.
hopkinsgm
18-06-2002, 12:54
Originally posted by cordobabrendy
surely nitrous is even harder to drive seeing as it comes in pretty
Difference is that you can control use of nitrous to a much greater extent than a turbo. Either way, nitrous is a bit of a fiddle (IMO) and doesn't do much for the life expectancy of your engine.
We all know Dave Walker is talking @rse, 200+bhp is quite possible from a 2.0 16v. He seems to go through phases, sometimes his advice is enormously useful, sometimes it's somewhat less than constructive...
G
ibizacupra
18-06-2002, 14:47
Originally posted by cordobabrendy
but tell me how many miles to the gallon are lost!! apart from money to have it done, thats whats stopping me!!:devil: :mad:
even though its 200+ brake, what is the torque figures like ?
Mines 174bhp @ wheels and 152lb/ft torque, with >130lb/ft available from 2700rpm
Rob T's is 217bhp @ flywheel, with 170lb/ft (I think).
30mpg on motorway milage on mine.
Bill
cordobabrendy
18-06-2002, 16:53
how many miles out of a 45 litre tank would you manage on a usual run then, my calculator head was left at home today!!!
I'm bored - find attached mpg calculator
Originally posted by cordobabrendy
how many miles out of a 45 litre tank would you manage on a usual run then, my calculator head was left at home today!!!
Have I missed something here ? We are talking about >100 bhp per liter out of a normally aspirated engine and all you can ask about is how many mpg it does ? Anyone who can be bothered to get this performance does so to go FAST - the idea is not to go quietly, or cheaply or snuggly wuggly - FAST ! sod the mpg, I want another 0.5sec reduction in lap time etc etc.
Sorry if this sounds rude but this is a fairly high state of tune - what do you expect ?
Cheers
Rob
cordobabrendy
18-06-2002, 17:57
well if that chart is correct..im looking at you mark phelps!!, my mpg is pretty bad, if i do my usual 240 out of a tank that means im getting approx 24 mpg, even on my best days 280, 28mpg!!! the sooner they manage to get diesel to scream to 7k revs the sooner ill be better off!!
lol @ Rob
Brendy - they're the numbers I have used [I even checked the conversions today]
At best I get 36mpg from my car (which is about right)
bear in mind that your 240 doesn't take into account the reserve - so get the litres off the receipt
M
cordobabrendy
18-06-2002, 18:03
hehe rob , mate, im not getting at that, what im saying that my personal circumstances are such that i use my car for work (im a field engineer) doing varying amounts of mileage, but the killer is that my work only pay me 12.5 p per mile and then a car allowance to cover wear and tear, id love to have your setup in my cordy mate id not even have to think twice about it!!
You are right, if you tune your car then expect to lose mpg's but i was just wondering for everydeay use what it would be like.
No offence intended by that other post btw!!:cheers:
Updated to include pence per mile (off subject) apols
CustardCupra
18-06-2002, 18:18
Originally posted by RobT
Have I missed something here ? We are talking about >100 bhp per liter out of a normally aspirated engine and all you can ask about is how many mpg it does ? Anyone who can be bothered to get this performance does so to go FAST - the idea is not to go quietly, or cheaply or snuggly wuggly - FAST ! sod the mpg, I want another 0.5sec reduction in lap time etc etc.
Sorry if this sounds rude but this is a fairly high state of tune - what do you expect ?
Cheers
Rob LOL , Well said , Power does't equal good MPG.
have one or the other , the choice is yours :D
jools
ibizacupra
18-06-2002, 20:08
Originally posted by jools
LOL , Well said , Power does't equal good MPG.
have one or the other , the choice is yours :D
jools
cue someone with a chipped TDi to rub our noses in it.. :D :D
LOL
Bill
can someone tell me if the f2 ibiza was N/A, they produced 270 odd bhp,according to the "complete guide to rallying"that SEAT produced for the f2 rally seasons,didn't they run TB's???:cheers:
oh yeh bill"total horse shit"subtle;) but affective
ibizacupra
19-06-2002, 08:02
Originally posted by jason
can someone tell me if the f2 ibiza was N/A, they produced 270 odd bhp,according to the "complete guide to rallying"that SEAT produced for the f2 rally seasons,didn't they run TB's???:cheers:
oh yeh bill"total horse shit"subtle;) but affective
Normally Aspirated yes.
2ltr 16v F2 Ibiza's. VW Motorsport engines were Lehmann built (sp)
They ran throttle bodies, strangely enough too :p
regards
Bill
Theres a guy with a chipped tdi in a mk2 golf getting 6.5s (280lbs/ft)to 60 and 700miles from a tank, over on club gti. Cake and eating it I'd say.
Rob/ Bill you should give Dave walker a ring at emerald and explain your engines. Talked to him a few times at shows and he seems ok. He's mapped a few on throttle bodies, but I think they had poor or no headwork, and probably mangoletsi inlets. Good chance of getting a feature.
ibizacupra
21-06-2002, 21:45
Originally posted by prof
Theres a guy with a chipped tdi in a mk2 golf getting 6.5s (280lbs/ft)to 60 and 700miles from a tank, over on club gti. Cake and eating it I'd say.
Rob/ Bill you should give Dave walker a ring at emerald and explain your engines. Talked to him a few times at shows and he seems ok. He's mapped a few on throttle bodies, but I think they had poor or no headwork, and probably mangoletsi inlets. Good chance of getting a feature.
Cheers.
Might well do that,
RobT - you up for that?
Bill
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Cheers.
Might well do that,
RobT - you up for that?
Bill
Count me in :devil:
Tried to speak to him Fri last week but he was apparently busy 'cutting a hole in some perspex'. It would be useful to see what he thinks - he's wrong in his comments this time but obviously knows his stuff (generally) so we may get some tips for further mods.
Cheers
Rob
Think he's just a bit obsessed with the K series at the moment. Just got the new CCC, don't think I'll be buying it again (unless u get your cars in) as there is even less to read than last time, Whats happening to car magazines?
Originally posted by prof
Think he's just a bit obsessed with the K series at the moment. Just got the new CCC, don't think I'll be buying it again (unless u get your cars in) as there is even less to read than last time, Whats happening to car magazines?
I agree - CCC has gone right down hill as have most car mags - big wheels and stereo's is all thats in them (not that I'm putting that down, each to his own, but why do we have to have this in ALL mags - nice to have the choice. Fastcar used to be very tuning orientated back in early 90's and the focus of that changed, CCC is also going over slowly but surely. Race car engineering is too far the other way for me (specs of metals etc) - seems the stuff in the middle is in short supply.
However - have just taken advantage of CCC's offer - subscribe for 1 year and get £18 book on Engine Management systems free - good deal.
Cheers
Rob
ibizacupra
24-06-2002, 16:40
Originally posted by RobT
I agree - CCC has gone right down hill as have most car mags - big wheels and stereo's is all thats in them (not that I'm putting that down, each to his own, but why do we have to have this in ALL mags - nice to have the choice. Fastcar used to be very tuning orientated back in early 90's and the focus of that changed, CCC is also going over slowly but surely. Race car engineering is too far the other way for me (specs of metals etc) - seems the stuff in the middle is in short supply.
However - have just taken advantage of CCC's offer - subscribe for 1 year and get £18 book on Engine Management systems free - good deal.
Cheers
Rob
I got that book last year. Its a good read and you get demo Emerald software to play with.
Informed and well written for ejits like me :D
regards
Bill