View Full Version : Deadbolt turbo's
http://www.boostplanet.com/product.htm
KONG
KONG2
ZILLA TD05H
ZILLA TD06H
These look intresting turbo's. ZILLA TD05 looks okay. Anyone know much about these turbo's. The kong range are BB by the looks of it. :cheers:
Wonder how the free rebuilds for life work?????? Which you getting Gary? :p
All 4 look good for 375-400bhp. 1818f, 1820f, 18g, 20g. Not sure which is best 18g-20g looks good. But the kong range are Ball Bearing so may spool quicker and make as much bhp.
john banks
07-09-2005, 22:38
Real world UK dyno and road use info, but on a Subaru, but I would treat the 1.8T like the EJ20, not the 2.5 though...
I've had a turbo very like an 1818 and it didn't really do much better than a VF34, in the end I changed to a TD05H-16G and this did 358 BHP with less lag with a bit of octane booster. Despite sleeve bearing and being a junkyard turbo it was far better than the 1818 equivalent. The 16G allowed my car to put 4-6 car lengths on an Evo with a built engine and 25G turbo that had +80 BHP on the same rollers on the same day. Different drivers swapping over, same results, this turbo has fantastic torque and response despite no ball bearing. The limit on the IHIs on Subaru engines at least is the turbine wheel not the compressor IMHO. The P20 housing is generous and can support 520 BHP on race gas BTW.
The TD05H turbine (with a 20G) took my car to 434 BHP and 395lbft (virtually all of that from about 3000-5000 RPM) at Star with octane booster or 10% methanol. It was 2.5 litres though, but the spool up for this sort of power was fabulous, instant hit at 3000 RPM, pretty strong at 2500 RPM by which time it reached 1 bar on the way to 1.4 bar. It did 121mph trap speeds on road tyres with gentle launches and 4 gearchanges in the first 8 seconds - ie not ideal drag stuff!
More relevant to the 1.8T, I also ran this turbo on a 2.0 with 1.8 bar midrange, dropping to 1.5 bar at the top and it did 406 BHP at Star. Was quite laggy IMHO in 2nd gear, not really hitting hard until 4500 RPM. In a high gear, there was 1 bar at 2900 RPM. Apart from the lag in 2nd gear, the other issue was compressor surge if I pulled the boost in too hard before 4000-4500 RPM (over 1.4 bar).
The TD05H-18G is quite rated on the 2.0s now as it doesn't seem to surge. But because the TD05H turbine is a little small to get the most out of the 20G compressor, it runs similar power it seems.
On the Subarus there is an oil feed restrictor on the IHI VF cores that there isn't on the Mitusubishi TD cores. Run without the restrictor on the VF and you get (even more ;) ) sluggish spool up, run with one on the TD and you may run the bearing.
So whats the next step John, 16g would only gain minimal amounts of power etc. It sounds like surge and lag maybe an issue with the 20g. 18g aint that much better than 16g. Is the best choice the 18g?. The 1818 and 1820 seem to have been ruled out straight away.
john banks
08-09-2005, 08:51
Agree, 16G change is probably not worth it any more than 1818 or similar is, it is pointless doing a turbo swap for a small improvement. To ensure you had no compressor surge you'll have to go bigger on the turbine side to match the larger compressor, but the turbine wheel and housing are the main factors in lag. Trouble is then you are on an 06 or 06H wheel, and I think they would be about right for a nice power band on a 2.5, even then I think the 05H wheel on that would have the edge for everyday use.
What I may be getting at is that from here I think you are on the dimishing returns slide big time just from power band, never mind reliability/breakages of engine/drivetrain, costs.
I know they are a pig, but supercharged-turbo combination or sequential turbos (pair of K03s ??) is the only way with present technology to really move your power band forward once you're at about 200 BHP/litre. And then you end up with control problems, lots of custom work etc.
It is fascinating to read up on how the 535d, 2JZGTE, EJ20 (in B4 Legacy) and FD3S do it.
However, at least you have a short, neat manifold to work with, the nightmare of doing twin turbo on a flat four doesn't make it worthwhile. I could go to a 3.3 flat six which will take 6 of the 2.2 (22B) rods and pistons, poor man's Porsche turbo. Trouble is that it would come a little far forwards in the engine bay, custom rad required and then a TD05 hung off either side would be nice - parallel not sequential. But the engine will go on the mounts and the gearbox... I keep dreaming of lots of traction and six cylinders without the flash of Pork.
Cheers John, so 2 IHI vf34's .18's in a twin turbo set up would be a half decent setup. Would it spool like it does now, and what bhp would be possible, any idea's.
Cupra_power
08-09-2005, 17:51
kong ??? zilla ?? geez what with the names of these things.
Shock_Xe
08-09-2005, 17:58
kong ??? zilla ?? geez what with the names of these things.
Japanese Films :roflmao:
john banks
08-09-2005, 21:56
Gary, you should be able to make the double the power if the pipework is efficient, and it should spool up as well as a single turbo since one turbo is isolated on both sides at low engine speeds. Lots of ifs and complications though. You could go better still if you use a small primary turbo - say a K03 or similar, followed by something big enough to explore the knock limits of your chosen fuel and the strength of your internals. Or even get inspiration (or parts??) from VW Golf GT with 1.4 and a supercharger followed by a turbo with about 170 BHP. The fabrication of these sorts of setups if beyond me, but I can draw what I want and do all the electronics for it no problems.
Jabba mentioned a pe1820f and vf34 working together.
ibizacupra
08-09-2005, 22:24
Jabba mentioned a pe1820f and vf34 working together.
TD05 and VF34 was'nt it :)
Cupra_power
09-09-2005, 07:27
Give this a read on the 535d . quite a complex setup with the two turbos, seems there is two diverter valves, one on the engine exhaust side and also on the intake manifold side.
535d (http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/driving-impressions-2004/B/bmw/535d-2.html)
I think 380bhp is the max we can achieve out of the 1.8t with a single turbo while still retaining decent driveability.
The next step is Twin Turbo's which will yield around 500-550bhp while maintaining vf34 spool up....be paitient...start saving!!
TD05 and VF34 was'nt it :)
There was a few combo's mentioned yesterday. Vf34 pe1820f, tdo5 and pe or vf. And a vf23 was mentioned at one point.
I think 380bhp is the max we can achieve out of the 1.8t with a single turbo while still retaining decent driveability.
The next step is Twin Turbo's which will yield around 500-550bhp while maintaining vf34 spool up....be paitient...start saving!!
10k burning a hole in my pocket, this would be my last move though so it really needs to be the best/final upgrade power wise. :cheers:
10k burning a hole in my pocket, this would be my last move though so it really needs to be the best/final upgrade power wise. :cheers:
:) PMSL if Elton reads this, he will coming up monday to personally pick up your car from smoggie land. :clap: :mobile:
:) PMSL if Elton reads this, he will coming up monday to personally pick up your car from smoggie land. :clap: :mobile:
A true word is often spoken in Jest. :roflmao: :cheers:
15 boiler swaps to get that cash Vern, weekend work though, nice combi to combi swaps.
hey gary,a bit off topic but have you guys ever run at santa pod?
Nah, i cant see it doing any better than a 13.3 anyway. No point the MLR 30-130mph tests looked good/intresting.
ibizacupra
10-09-2005, 10:56
There was a few combo's mentioned yesterday. Vf34 pe1820f, tdo5 and pe or vf. And a vf23 was mentioned at one point.
LOL, going to be a monstor when it comes alive..
wondering who the 1st customer will be... and I hope its 4wd..
Won't be me!!
You know you won't be able to resist bill!!
I know one person who wants it and can afford it.
hey gary,a bit off topic but have you guys ever run at santa pod? bill has run a 13.4 before but with high terminals,with traction definately got 12's in it :)
how high where the terminals?
I've been thinking about all this 1/4 stuff,how is the tt/s3 geared compared to evo/scoobies as i've noticed that i'm at 84mph through the 1/8 while there quicker with less speed?
they are quicker because of less gearchanges,every gearchange will cost you a bit of time. my mates standard scoob did a 14.1@95mph the same time as you but 10mph slower over the line! if you had an uprated clutch to take the power ryan you will shave at least 1/2 a second off your time :thumbup: i take it you've got the bug now ;) i bet you've played your runs over and over again in your head :blink:
Yeah ,i was chatting with that guy with the evo and he had 340bhp and managed a 13.372@104.18mph.
Even if you got my 60ft's down to 2seconds i'm still going to do a 13.6@104/5??
I suppose there a tad lighter and bettered geared to acceleration.
My best terminal was 105.65!!
Yeah ,i was chatting with that guy with the evo and he had 340bhp and managed a 13.372@104.18mph.
Even if you got my 60ft's down to 2seconds i'm still going to do a 13.6@104/5??
I suppose there a tad lighter and bettered geared to acceleration.
My best terminal was 105.65!! your 60ft times dont always reflect you overall times mate,it helps but put it this way i did a 13.4 pass with a 60ft of 1.84.when i did 12.97 my 60ft was 1.98! it's all very frustrating :blink: get that clutch sorted and we'll get a few more runs in :thumbup:
I thought you would have been quicker than that? How does your S3 launch?
With great difficulty with a worn out clutch sticking to the floor!!
As caney says i need to sort the clutch out and get some runs in,the practice helps too.
Ive been up against a couple of S3's and they have both absolutely spanked me off the line. Im not sure if this is correct, but am i right in saying that the S3 has a 90 / 10% torque split, hence the front wheels still take 90% of the power? Am i also right in saying you can get a torque splitter for it so you can feed more power to the rear wheels?
Hi steve basically i couldn't give it more than 2500rpm off the line otherwise the clutch slipped/not engaged ,so i bogged down everytime.
LOL, going to be a monstor when it comes alive..
wondering who the 1st customer will be... and I hope its 4wd..
I know 1 car it will be going on along with a 1.9L conversion.
I know 1 car it will be going on along with a 1.9L conversion.I'm going with the 2L
2L on twins?.Yeh thats the plan I leave the engine/turbo specs to Mike and Elton.Can't decide what to put it in yet. Think it will prob be A3 quattro caged out to make things simple,can't be bothered making another 4wd mk2 golf.
I thought the 2L would not rev high enough.
Different crank and pistons to make 2L lightend crank aswell sould rev hard with cams.
Good luck with it,sounds awesome!!
John which turbo would spool quicker and have the best bhp between the PE1820 and the 18g?.
Gary,how much does a ibiza weigh?
They say 1119kgs in the book but more like 1150kgs in real life i would think.
ibizacupra
11-09-2005, 11:01
mine was corner weighted, no rear seats, caged @ 1153Kg
sound proofing all in place still
john banks
11-09-2005, 17:05
Gary I think they would be very similar. 18G is cheaper and rebuildable though.
Thanks Bill.
mine was corner weighted, no rear seats, caged @ 1153Kg
sound proofing all in place still
Different crank and pistons to make 2L lightend crank aswell sould rev hard with cams.
I was advised not to go with the 2litre conversion as the longer stoke would mean the engne wouldn't rev as well.
What power outputs are you hoping for?
BTW, doesnt having 2 turbos increase the lag unless you have fancy lag/control to make sure only one is engaged at lw revs and the other cuts in later?
Ben
BTW, have I missed something, have Jabba announced plans for Stage 4, 5 and 6 conversions (again)?
Ben
Mike T has been working on control valve for a while.Yep Jabba talking bigger and better things.
Engine wont rev as high but with loads of boost i'm told will have loads of torque.
I fancy doing something fresh i've had IHI for a while and I want more now.
[QUOTE=BenS1]
What power outputs are you hoping for?
I'd be happy with 480bhp any more and it's a bonous.
Sounds good. I wonder if it'll fit in an Ibiza.
Hmmmm.
ibizacupra
30-09-2005, 10:23
[QUOTE=BenS1]
What power outputs are you hoping for?
I'd be happy with 480bhp any more and it's a bonous.
He he he.... thats going to be so much fun :D
Fun, and insane! Any news on the development of a 4WD system?
A 500bhp s3 sounds fun,but expensive!!
mine was corner weighted, no rear seats, caged @ 1153Kg
sound proofing all in place stillmine weighs 1420 kg with the rear seats removed :( a difference of 270 kg! that's like having 3 14 stone men in your car :wtf: i'd still rather have 4wd though :D
Fun, and insane! Any news on the development of a 4WD system?
From Jabba? Dunno, but JBS told me that they would be happy to convert my Ibiza to 4WD but it wont be cheap.
Hmmmm, do I keep modding the Ibiza or do I get a 2nd track car like an Atom or 2nd hand Noble?
Ben
Learn to drive the beezer aswell as bill ,or buy a porsche 911,best of both worlds.
ibizacupra
03-10-2005, 08:58
From Jabba? Dunno, but JBS told me that they would be happy to convert my Ibiza to 4WD but it wont be cheap.
Hmmmm, do I keep modding the Ibiza or do I get a 2nd track car like an Atom or 2nd hand Noble?
Ben
I may well be appraoching the level of power in a lighter ibiza which i smore power than is practically applied to the ground... (sh1t! did I just type that! :doh: )
New motor is being installed now so in a few weeks when run in I will know if I have made a mystake on bigger turbo choice or not. hopefully not but you never know. I can always fall back on the VF34 if it does'nt work out as I want.. but I am hoping its not going to be ultra laggy, worse than my relatively lazy motor has always been compared to others.
I drove mikeT's A3 quattro saturday, IHI'd, FMIC, ME7.5 ecu and it rocked! 4wd, A3 quattro chassis which actually aborbs bumps and undulations (anyone knowing Jabbaville, knows how bad those roads are!) - Warp speed in every gear without any fuss or scrabbling. Ibiza would have been in the field on this same stretch of road, same full throttle up the gears, bouncing off one bump onto another & into a field. A3 quattro chassis (road car) was much better at applying the 350bhp onto the ground. Accelerating from standing start gave whiplash, but 1st gear is sooooo short such is the acceleration. Not even a chirp, just thrust. :D
Sound like I am smitten? well yea I was.
As mikeT said tho it felt a bit boring in the delivery of the power, not that it was slow because it was'nt, but it delivered it in a very refined manner in a very capable chassis. 500bhp would bring the manic grin factor back, into "scareville" scenario with the a3 quattro chassis I would think, but gear ratios on 1st would be on my list of mods to make 2st longer.
Once rolling, and on smooth road (read track), the lighter ibiza with similar power would no doubt be faster, but talking road cars, practical, sleeper, an A3 quattro with this performance would be somthing else.. (anyone want an S8?)
bill
Good info bill,
swap the S8 for an S3, ;) great starting point
Am i right in assuming Bill M.E 7.5 is DBW has Mike T cracked/perfected this then mate?
ibizacupra
03-10-2005, 09:54
Good info bill,
swap the S8 for an S3, ;) great starting point
Am i right in assuming Bill M.E 7.5 is DBW has Mike T cracked/perfected this then mate?
From what I drove I would say yea... it seems pretty darned cracked.. He's being his usual perfectionist self and wants to tweek a little more on it for smoothness on light throttle progression etc, but it drove very nice as it was I thought. The usual problem is time on rollers to do the development as they're almost always fulyl booked weeks in advance.
What weight can an A3/quattro or S3 tow?
A3 Quatrro 5 speed O2M gearbox and 480BHP:) Here I go with both feet!
What weight can an A3/quattro or S3 tow?
LOL Dunno, probably not a yellow beezer, may do a lupo though ;)
ibizacupra
03-10-2005, 11:01
LOL Dunno, probably not a yellow beezer, may do a lupo though ;)
Needs to be able to tow ibiza which goes racing next year @ Combe.
ibizacupra
03-10-2005, 11:02
A3 Quatrro 5 speed O2M gearbox and 480BHP:) Here I go with both feet!
you should of had a go Dan... it was really nice to drive. refined and power just went to the ground fuss free.
>400lbft to chuck it down the road faster tho... :)
Can you get torque splitters for the A3 quattros to send more power to the rears? I heard as standard it was only about 10%
That thing must have a drinking problem!
you should of had a go Dan... it was really nice to drive. refined and power just went to the ground fuss free.
>400lbft to chuck it down the road faster tho... :)
I'll have a go in two weeks (if you haven't bought it by then). Just got car booked in for remap. mmm more power around 3000rpm:)
ibizacupra
03-10-2005, 12:37
I'll have a go in two weeks (if you haven't bought it by then). Just got car booked in for remap. mmm more power around 3000rpm:)
Hehe. deffo in need or remap... syncro will go like stink from progressive throttle then.. woo haaar
mike & elton were listening I guess. better late than never I guess. (Mrs B got in a strop waiting as I did'nt leave mike until gone 6.30, chatting as we do. - Woops. Bill in dog house again :whistle: )
i dont think mike would part with his a3 tho.. tempting as it is. (for me)
needs to be able to tow my ibiza to track and back.
S8 being heavy enough to do that without any probs being the barge that it is.
Hi bill,
Just looked in my s3 brochure and trailer weight is 720kg unbraked or 1600kg braked on gradient on 8 or 12% gradient.
Must admit my 360bhp s3 is great fun and has the luxury that evos and the like can't match.
ibizacupra
03-10-2005, 18:39
Hi bill,
Just looked in my s3 brochure and trailer weight is 720kg unbraked or 1600kg braked on gradient on 8 or 12% gradient.
Must admit my 360bhp s3 is great fun and has the luxury that evos and the like can't match.
1600Kg.. blimey, makes the S8 figure seem enormous. 2800kg braked!
maybe be just on the limit of legal towing on a lighter ibiza.
Hmmm. S3.... :) :) :)
What championship will you be racing in Bill?
Scrap the Noble.... I beat 2 of them easily at a trackday on Monday... but admittedly I couldn't quite keep up when an instructor was driving one of them!
Ben