View Full Version : Less powerful brakes
If you could halve the weight of your car, would you bother upgrading the brakes?
reason being:
650kg car, 145bhp, 239mm brakes? safe, or not.
Cheers
Mark
hopkinsgm
30-06-2002, 20:06
As i'm sure you know, changing anything with a Kesley Hayes caliper (standard kit with VAG 239 discs) means changing the hubs too as the pad carriers are an integral part of the hub casting. Potentially quite a big job.
You may find that there's other more effective tweaks - changing master cylinder to a larger bore one (late mk2 16v) is a common mk1 Golf mod. I'll let you know how I get on with grooved 239's and fast road pads in my mk1 - brakes are now all back together, but not bled up yet as one of the bleed nipples is f*cked...
G
:devil: my cars a polo 14se which ive upgraded brakes on and am considering a bigger master cylinder, which modern cars have a bigger master cylinder, im running 288s off mk4 golf at the moment, but find ive a lot of pedal travel.
Sounds reasonable - formula fords weigh what, 400kg approx, maybe 350kg, and have tiny solid disks and they stop really well from high speeds (and have no downforce so thats out of the equation)- less weight needs less brake to stop. Bigger brakes = more weight in the caliper/disk (more or less without going into fancy materials)= more sprung weight = deteriorating handling.
The trick is when is enough brake enough ?
Cheers
Rob
Well. the MkII Golf GTI which has the same brakes weighed in at 920kg with 112bhp
that's 121 bhp/tonne
The Polo (I'd hope) weighs in at 2/3rds that, but has more power.
BUT. just doing fag packet sums I'm looking at 200bhp+ / tonne
I think major fade would be the problem, so some super hard pagids & lots of cold air might get away with it?
It would be a lot easier than putting new hubs on if I can avoid it initially.
M
hopkinsgm
01-07-2002, 22:06
Originally posted by MarkP
Well. the MkII Golf GTI which has the same brakes weighed in at 920kg with 112bhp
Here's news for you - a mk2 Golf/Jetta 16v with a book figure of 139bhp had 239x20 vented discs and Kesley Hayes calipers up front until '89. And let us not forget, VAG sent ickle Polo G40's out of the factory with 112bhp with 239x20 vented discs, a la mk1 Golf GTi, mk2 Golf GTi, early mk2 Golf GTi 16v...
Pads, braided hoses, uprated discs and possibly investigate master cylinder upgrades as a first pass - discs can be had pretty cheap (£30+VAT for 239x20 vented grooved for my mk1), you'd be doing pads anyway (I hope!), braided hoses aren't really THAT much more than regular replacement flexies and a master cylinder upgrade would be required with bigger brakes anyway. And don't forget that it's possible to overbrake a car too...
As it goes, all the Westies I know run with solid discs, even those with power to weight fast approaching 400bhp/tonne
G
should be OK if i make it nice & light
Group A discs are solid, but maybe a better material.
I'll play it by ear (see what it's like I think)
just better to plan before doing thatn work out what to do first.
M