View Full Version : Badger-Mobile-new1900 5v Turbo motor
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 17:11
The Badger-mobile is back... collected from my friends @ Jabba Saturday. (why I could'nt make to the SCN Awesome RR day)
Engine is now running 83mm 8.5:1 JE pistons, forged rods, ported largeport head, Supertech valves, PE1820 turbo, 3" DP (Dans), Dual Plenum intake manifold, oil cooler, 520cc/3bar injectors and RS4 MAF (last 2 to be fitted prior to mapping)
Runs without ABS now and aircon system has been removed. - mucho weight reduction.
Some pictures below:
http://badger-5.com/bin/new-ibiza-engine/new-engine-6.jpg
http://badger-5.com/bin/new-ibiza-engine/new-engine-8.jpg
http://badger-5.com/bin/new-ibiza-engine/new-engine-9.jpg
http://badger-5.com/bin/new-ibiza-engine/new-engine-10.jpg
http://badger-5.com/bin/new-ibiza-engine/new-engine-14.jpg
Running in new motor at the moment to a self imposed 4K rev limit.
Its no laggier than the previous VF34 on ported smallport, if anything slighty faster I think.
Has an atmo sound to it in revving terms... very responsive to rev. Lightened & balanced engine. Kinda got s suk to it. :p
Running Stage 3+ SPEC clutch now as a change from Helix. 6 puk paddle again, but extremely HD cover plate with dual pressure plate springs. Pedal no heavier than Helix was.
Hoping it runs as well as hoped for when unleashed and mapped up in a weeks time.
Rock and Roll
:rocker:
Ruddmeister
23-10-2005, 17:14
Jeeez that's one wierd looking Manifold, be interesting to see what figures you get. Nice work Bill
I have high hopes for this engine setup, pe1820f etc. Whens it getting mapped Bill.
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 17:19
Jeeez that's one wierd looking Manifold, be interesting to see what figures you get. Nice work Bill
Its nice work from James & Elton @ Jabba.
They built and assembled it into the motor for me.
Some fuel mods to do (extra fuel pump, RS4 MAF and larger intake piping, 520cc injectors)
Difficult to restrain myself to 4K I can tell you. It really wants to rip. :D
Jobs to do before it goes back for me being fit my SPA Dual oil temp/pressure gauge and connect up my Zeitronix AFR wideband.EGT.MAP sensor guage for some logging.
PE1820 might become quite popular as an upgrade.
Triple D
23-10-2005, 17:20
Looks good Bill, lets hope JBS get there rollers sorted soon then we can have a Seat cupra.net rr day and so i can see yours in action again.( After the last JBS rr day)
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 17:22
I have high hopes for this engine setup, pe1820f etc. Whens it getting mapped Bill.
I take it back next sat and leave it for a week for the remaining mods & mapping.
see what it does then. MikeT is a bit aprehensive on holding it down on the rollers from our previous experience on what 2bar boost and >400lbft did when the VF34 went uncontrolled from the dodgy N75 valve. fecking scarey!
At least this one has some uprated internals so I should be fearing less for them, but more for transmission! :doh:
:whistle:
traumapat
23-10-2005, 17:23
er....... WOW! :scary:
The only issue could have been lag, if it spools okay, they its a green light for the Pe1820f.
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 17:34
The only issue could have been lag, if it spools okay, they its a green light for the Pe1820f.
remembering this is in combination with larger displacement engine running my 83mm pistons.
only time will tell how much a 20 housing can flow from the larger compressor.
Intial feelings are its no laggier than VF34 in spool terms.
James wants one for his mk2 now.
stoneyfordNI
23-10-2005, 18:13
thats an emotional engine bay , wat sort of power u expecting u had 360 odd b4 didnt u
What is a PE1820 turbo Bill? Looks awesome and sounds like it's gonna make serious numbers, 400?
Your car could be compared to a mullet ... all business up front - party at the back!!! :D
Daz_gibbo
23-10-2005, 18:29
:lol:
stoneyfordNI
23-10-2005, 18:30
ooh is mr DON getting ideas
Has it got a dump valve?
:funk:
Scotty_b
23-10-2005, 19:04
Yeah i was looking at it thinking why has he got an atmos on there, till i clicked it was facing the wrong way!
stoneyfordNI
23-10-2005, 19:05
Has it got a dump valve?
:funk:
and more importantly is it whoosy
Did they manage a slot fill design on the intake manni Bill? I can't quite work it out...
Also, what the extra PVC Hose running from the air intake down to the turbo? Just for cooling?
looks good bill.
That manifols looks interesting. Jabba going to be selling that? I take it they hacked your big port mani for the runners?
Bigger turbo is obviously the way forward! Just not yet
ANDY BLUNT
23-10-2005, 20:16
Nice Bill,just get rid of that garden hose its spoiling the look lol :p ,hope it makes the numbers for you,manifold looks great :thumbup: Cheers Andy
Looks very sweet indeed!
They runner look huge.
Anything special inside the mani? velocity stack/trumpets
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 20:32
thats an emotional engine bay , wat sort of power u expecting u had 360 odd b4 didnt u
emotional?
you lost me :confused:
Emotional, he means if he had to pay for it he would have cried as well. :lol:
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 20:36
What is a PE1820 turbo Bill? Looks awesome and sounds like it's gonna make serious numbers, 400?
Your car could be compared to a mullet ... all business up front - party at the back!!! :D
Its a Power Enterprise hybrid IHI unit. Made in Japan.
We discussed it a while back on SCN where spec's of turbo's were being discussed I think. Talking '20 housings on VF34's I think then it meandered into PE1818 and PE1820's etc etc
I am hoping for a 400 numbr yes, from it, the 1900cc, the ported largeport cylinder head, the dual plenum intake manifold etc
fingers crossed.
Nice setup Bill, just wondering why didn't you go via gt28rs route? You could do around 400hp with good spool up time. Just wondering.
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 20:41
Did they manage a slot fill design on the intake manni Bill? I can't quite work it out...
Also, what the extra PVC Hose running from the air intake down to the turbo? Just for cooling?
The mani is slot filled, "dual plenum" yes.
as seen on WRC cars, Dahlback version etc, but this one has larger plenum than Dahlback, and also features intake air velocity stacks inside the plenum.
The base part of the mani is Audi A4 as it slopes downward more, and we might remember the Dahlback did'nt fit the ibiza engine bay cos it was too tall. With this one the mani is larger plenum but still fits without hitting the bonnet line.
Extra cooling duct yes, extra fan I have on there which blows down the back when on, and continues to run for 10mins like the aux water pump does to help cool things. After melting a couple of exhaust housings I am paranoid. I cannot afford to melt a PE, its too damned expensive a turbo. Hence also why I will have EGT and wideband lambda running to keep my eye on it.
stoneyfordNI
23-10-2005, 20:42
Emotional, he means if he had to pay for it he would have cried as well. :lol:
plus it could bring a tear to a glass eye , sod the bling , that just yells bhp,
sorted
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 20:45
looks good bill.
That manifols looks interesting. Jabba going to be selling that? I take it they hacked your big port mani for the runners?
Bigger turbo is obviously the way forward! Just not yet
Hopefully the manifold will help smooth out and even the airflow potential across the cylinders. Thats the theory but its guesswork and educated hunches as to whether it will help or hinder. Needed a mani as you know being wrong way round mani on mine vs your golf.
http://badger-5.com/bin/new-ibiza-engine/intake%20tract-2.jpg
Trying to strike the balance between power and lag. Anyone can slap on a GT30,35,40 on their 1.8T to get bigger power figures, but there's more to performance than RR figures and bragging rights for most bhp.
My ibiza is going to be racing at Castle Combe, in the National Windscreens C'ship along with Keith Murray etc, so I was wanting something which would work on track, without being a lag monstor.
Its not mapped so I cant say what its power potential is going to be, but it looking ok on the lag worry thankfully. Time will tell if it delivers is 400bhp number or torque.
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 20:48
Nice setup Bill, just wondering why didn't you go via gt28rs route? You could do around 400hp with good spool up time. Just wondering.
Cos you cant get a reliable 400bhp from a regular GT28RS thats why.
Dont believe what you have seen as achieving this as being a GT28RS... cos it was'nt.
Mine needs to be reliable and sized for spool up time as well as power & torque. It changing into a race car from road car over the winter.
I am IHI commited (or should be LOL)
If I wanted bigger again then yea I would go GT30/35 or something, but not from a small diplacement engine.
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 20:50
plus it could bring a tear to a glass eye , sod the bling , that just yells bhp,
sorted
pennies dropped.
I'm understanding now.. sorry. Senior moment. (grey/blonde)
I dont do bling.. (dont look at me audi's 19" wheels tho :whistle: )
Looks good Bill.I felt the weight of that inlet manifold tissue paper light, can't wait to see what it makes when mapped with the PE Get it run in quick!.Got my pistons from them last week look a bit weak around gudgeon pin for me but i'll give them a shot.Did MIke T mension mine?
so is it just bore that's changed? not stroke
stoneyfordNI
23-10-2005, 20:57
pennies dropped.
I'm understanding now.. sorry. Senior moment. (grey/blonde)
I dont do bling.. (dont look at me audi's 19" wheels tho :whistle: )
il let u away with that cos u sold me good brake fluid , worked too
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 21:04
Looks good Bill.I felt the weight of that inlet manifold tissue paper light, can't wait to see what it makes when mapped with the PE Get it run in quick!.Got my pistons from them last week look a bit weak around gudgeon pin for me but i'll give them a shot.Did MIke T mension mine?
I was in a rush on saturday I'm afraid so hardly spoke to mike.. (unlike me)
had to rush back to castle combe to drop stuff off and collect an abf engine..
Mani was dead light when Elton showed me.. piccies look good of construction. Deffo a weird intake sound for a turbo..
this week is get miles on car week.. so in a week or two we should all know how its turned out.
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 21:04
so is it just bore that's changed? not stroke
yea, 83mm pistons now. same stoke. Benefit of which however is to deshroud 2 of the intake valves, so the engine starts producing power earlier and is generally torquier.
Dan is going for full on 2ltr in his new motor. Now that spec will eclipse mine.
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 21:05
il let u away with that cos u sold me good brake fluid , worked too
:worship: :thumbup: :cheers:
ibizacupra
23-10-2005, 21:36
Yeah i was looking at it thinking why has he got an atmos on there, till i clicked it was facing the wrong way!
Well spotted.. I had'nt :think:
It prolly wont stay that way but I will run a leak check on it to see how much pressure it can hold the wrong way round.
Spec looks great. What are the driving characteristics going to be like though with all that low down grunt? Surely you won't be able to get the power down in 2nd or 3rd?! Especially when hauling it out of slow corners on the track. God itll be fun though! And race tyres will help a lot.
stoneyfordNI
23-10-2005, 21:55
so wat sorta competetion are u runnin in bill, is it televised
Have you replaced the OEM oil-water heat exchanger with the sandwich plate or are you running both? If both, what are you doing for the oil filter as there's little clearance between it and the front lower crossmember?
Good luck with this engine, looking forward to seeing next seasons racing. :)
Good Stuff Billo....
Always good to see someone going the extra mile. Talk is cheap actions are expensive. good stuff ;)
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 08:53
Spec looks great. What are the driving characteristics going to be like though with all that low down grunt? Surely you won't be able to get the power down in 2nd or 3rd?! Especially when hauling it out of slow corners on the track. God itll be fun though! And race tyres will help a lot.
I have a boost controller so can tailor it to conditions..
For the Combe C'ship tho, I have to run list 1a tyres which is boggo type tyres, nothing nice nor track related. :( Hence going wide as I can to try and make up losses in tyre grip/compound by sheer rubber contact. 245's planned.(yes arch mods req'd)
Spool up should help produce a usable spread of torque, but I dont know until its unleashed. Grunt from mid 3K onwards to 8K is what I am hoping for. We will see.
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 08:57
so wat sorta competetion are u runnin in bill, is it televised
Next years C'ship @ Castle Combe is going to be different. Combe have split from the BRSCC and form their own car club, inviting other clubs along. The National Windscreens sponsored c'ship is tied into the BRSCC until 2007 so I dont know how this will pan out. No regs going to be released until Jan 06 so its not 100% clear yet. There will be a new class inserted (Class A) for 4WD cars, and the old class A will be named B (up to 3000cc), and old classes B/C will be merged to deal with the fiasco of the C'ship winner having no one to compete against. (1400cc class, rover metro full on spec, vs 2 old, old mini's who were >2sec lap slower)
Not sure if televised, but I suspect not, unless some of the events pick up the big boys next season. (F3 etc)
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 08:58
Have you replaced the OEM oil-water heat exchanger with the sandwich plate or are you running both? If both, what are you doing for the oil filter as there's little clearance between it and the front lower crossmember?
Good luck with this engine, looking forward to seeing next seasons racing. :)
No water heat exchanger now. Just the sandwich plate & external cooler. If anything slightly more clearance than before.
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 08:58
Good Stuff Billo....
Always good to see someone going the extra mile. Talk is cheap actions are expensive. good stuff ;)
Cheers Addo.
tis an expensive game as we know.
Ruddmeister
24-10-2005, 09:04
Be interesting to see the lap times on the new set-up Bill, see if / by how much your under the 1.19 ish old set-up........
will you develop the custom code software or is jabba mapping? you may have already answered i joined thread late.
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 09:40
Be interesting to see the lap times on the new set-up Bill, see if / by how much your under the 1.19 ish old set-up........
My previous best lap times I hope to improve on were 1m17s laps which is top 3 C'ship times for this year.
Lighter more powerful car for next year. Big question is on tyres.
Other cars I know about are another ibiza (GT30R turbo'd), a Leon (PE1820 turbo'd, Ray West built car), Audi S3, Audi A4 (Keith Murrays one, just bought by existing c'ship competitor on saturday), and Keiths new A3 (2.0 16v turbo)
Let alone how many EVO's will enter as well, now there is a 4WD class and they call it A. :doh:
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 09:41
will you develop the custom code software or is jabba mapping? you may have already answered i joined thread late.
Jabba mapping (Jabba built the engine)
Ruddmeister
24-10-2005, 09:52
My previous best lap times I hope to improve on were 1m17s laps which is top 3 C'ship times for this year.
Lighter more powerful car for next year. Big question is on tyres.
Ah ok
Wasn't it more like 1.19 on road spec tyres of the sort you will have to run in the c'ship......I knew you were quicker on slicks
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 12:44
Ah ok
Wasn't it more like 1.19 on road spec tyres of the sort you will have to run in the c'ship......I knew you were quicker on slicks
narrow tryes vs what I will be using... so maybe a balance of grip performance depending on which make I go for. 205's previously, 245's planned.
wont know until I test.
245's being driven by Titainum drive shafts :redface:
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 17:25
its the box I fear for..
it survived slicks which I wont get anything like the grip from on road 245's so fingers crossed
Do you think the quaife box would last longer if it had a pump and oil cooler?
It's just that you must have created some oil temps when in full on pastie mode.
john banks
24-10-2005, 19:15
Looking good Bill.
only time will tell how much a 20 housing can flow from the larger compressor.
The P20 housing itself flows well - on the back of a Garrett core on a 2.0 engine with uprated internals it has done 519 BHP and 460 lbft at G-Force, fuel unspecified. Another car did 585 BHP at Well Lane with race fuel. Good for mid-high 400s on Optimax with nothing special engine wise.
Turbine wheel will be the restriction I reckon.
Have you considered individual cylinder WBAFR/EGT/fuel/timing trim to maximise safety/output?
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 19:18
Do you think the quaife box would last longer if it had a pump and oil cooler?
It's just that you must have created some oil temps when in full on pastie mode.
I dont know Dan.. I do remember it being physically very hot when off track, but the gear selection woes were as bad cold as they were hot. unlike yours which was really nice and nothing like mine.
maybe mine is cured now, as Quaife built it now. Sayt down with them, but its of no use to me now as I cant run it in the Combe c'ship
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 19:22
Looking good Bill.
The P20 housing itself flows well - on the back of a Garrett core on a 2.0 engine with uprated internals it has done 519 BHP and 460 lbft at G-Force, fuel unspecified. Another car did 585 BHP at Well Lane with race fuel. Good for mid-high 400s on Optimax with nothing special engine wise.
Turbine wheel will be the restriction I reckon.
Have you considered individual cylinder WBAFR/EGT/fuel/timing trim to maximise safety/output?
Thanks John.
I am hoping it all works out well. Leap of faith and all that.
mid 400's would be a real dream for me.. but am aiming (hoping desperately) for 400bhp/400lbft from it.
Motor is'nt wild spec, retains std cams, but head is large, ported, 3" DP now, the new intake mani I hope shows its worth when on full attack boost levels and flow.
Nice to hear from you the '20 housing can support some good numbers in itself.
I am running stock Me7 ecu but ME7.5 appeals with its extra safeties. I know for mikeT this is his new 'fave ecu to map.
In-Car I have EGT, Wideband and map sensor into a Zeitronix logger/display gizmo. Will be keeping a beady eye on it when its running post mapping.
john banks
24-10-2005, 19:35
Depending on how long the exhaust manifold is, sometimes you can get an EGT probe in there for each cylinder, 1.5mm K type thermocouples and glands to fit them are inexpensive. Just thinking that you have played with both the inlet and exhaust manifolds as well as doing head work, so tricky to assume that all cylinders will be equal? Can you compensate per cylinder with ME7?
ibizacupra
24-10-2005, 19:51
Depending on how long the exhaust manifold is, sometimes you can get an EGT probe in there for each cylinder, 1.5mm K type thermocouples and glands to fit them are inexpensive. Just thinking that you have played with both the inlet and exhaust manifolds as well as doing head work, so tricky to assume that all cylinders will be equal? Can you compensate per cylinder with ME7?
I dont think ME7 can trim cylinders in the way you describe.
Hoping cylinder fill is more equal from the dual plenum as thats why we made it.
Will get a feel for things on cylinder timing pulls I guess, but not ideal.
How would you do it?
Thanks John.
I am hoping it all works out well. Leap of faith and all that.
mid 400's would be a real dream for me.. but am aiming (hoping desperately) for 400bhp/400lbft from it.
Motor is'nt wild spec, retains std cams, but head is large, ported, 3" DP now, the new intake mani I hope shows its worth when on full attack boost levels and flow.
Nice to hear from you the '20 housing can support some good numbers in itself.
I am running stock Me7 ecu but ME7.5 appeals with its extra safeties. I know for mikeT this is his new 'fave ecu to map.
In-Car I have EGT, Wideband and map sensor into a Zeitronix logger/display gizmo. Will be keeping a beady eye on it when its running post mapping.
You will see over 400bhp on that motor Bill. Mid 400's i dont know, but i cant see any reason why it wont do 400/400.
john banks
24-10-2005, 20:02
I bought a second hand exhaust manifold into which the previous owner had fitted four EGT probes. Unfortunately they were inserted to different exposed lengths so the differences between the cylinders were not able to be measured accurately. But if I had a posher engine with custom inlet manifold and was racing I would try this more thoroughly, although it might be more relevant on a flat four given the pipe lengths of the inlet and exhaust manifolds with their lack of symmetry than on a neat inline four. I think four lambda sensors would be bulky, obstructive, overheat and not get good readings in the high pressure between the exhaust valves and the turbine, and would be a lot more expensive than EGT probes which are about £10-15 each with glands.
Sounds like you've got individual cylinder knock control which is a nice start, but obviously if you run one cylinder leaner it will be more likely to knock, so the timing will be retarded, which will result in higher temperatures in that cylinder. If there is a big mismatch it would be worth working on equalising the fuelling maybe?
Mike told me there is cylinder compensation on ignition But i'm not sure about fueling
Cos you cant get a reliable 400bhp from a regular GT28RS thats why.
Dont believe what you have seen as achieving this as being a GT28RS... cos it was'nt.
Mine needs to be reliable and sized for spool up time as well as power & torque. It changing into a race car from road car over the winter.
I am IHI commited (or should be LOL)
If I wanted bigger again then yea I would go GT30/35 or something, but not from a small diplacement engine.
I thought i was reading on this forum something like 430hp with a gt28rs in a skoda octavia rs, but don't remeber exactly. My friend was putting out 346hp with a gt28r, so close to 400 might be doable with a gt28rs, i am thinking about that setup at the moment because want to retain good spool up time of ko4-0023.
I think the oil cooler you put up in front will be a great idea since i noticed how fast the heat of oil levels increases on the track. Five fast laps and it is sky high [:@]
How awsome is that car, i'm so jealous its unreal. I think i might have to go BT after xmas.
My mate with a Gt28rs still doesnt know what kind of power hes puttin out.
ibizacupra
25-10-2005, 16:18
I thought i was reading on this forum something like 430hp with a gt28rs in a skoda octavia rs, but don't remeber exactly. My friend was putting out 346hp with a gt28r, so close to 400 might be doable with a gt28rs, i am thinking about that setup at the moment because want to retain good spool up time of ko4-0023.
I think the oil cooler you put up in front will be a great idea since i noticed how fast the heat of oil levels increases on the track. Five fast laps and it is sky high [:@]
GT28Rs was not a GT28RS in the Octavia m8. Not a vanilla one a "Special one"
It was laggier than my setup.
It went like stink too. :D
What happened to the Octy, blew up?
BlackCupraa
25-10-2005, 17:32
It did and is now running again
GT28Rs was not a GT28RS in the Octavia m8. Not a vanilla one a "Special one"
It was laggier than my setup.
It went like stink too. :D
Was a GT28Rs hybrid with GT30R cold side iirc
ibizacupra
25-10-2005, 18:17
Was a GT28Rs hybrid with GT30R cold side iirc
:rolleyes: :whistle: :cheeky:
you would of course have to ask the people who built it for confirmation.
I could'nt possibly comment.
:)
ibizacupra
25-10-2005, 21:30
running motor about last few days locally.. easing my way into it..
watching my boost gauge vs revs its getting >0.5bar by 3K rpm and accelerates sharply from 3.5K to my self imposed 4K limiter (which I have missed a couple of times in low gears as its fires away) - boost controller is mid way as maximum occasionally at the mo. super smooth engine. old one felt, well old by comparison. Deffo more eager everywhere and lag is less than my old motor for sure. I am not dreaming it.
Scaring the locals as it BANGs on overrun big time after a quick acceleration to 4K... like 12 bore shotgun BANG! - who needs firework bangers with this around LOL
Sounds wicked, in more ways than one! Do some video clips once you're beyond the 4k limit, sounds like that engine is a beast straining at the leash!!!
I have a boost controller so can tailor it to conditions..
For the Combe C'ship tho, I have to run list 1a tyres which is boggo type tyres, nothing nice nor track related. :( Hence going wide as I can to try and make up losses in tyre grip/compound by sheer rubber contact. 245's planned.(yes arch mods req'd)
Spool up should help produce a usable spread of torque, but I dont know until its unleashed. Grunt from mid 3K onwards to 8K is what I am hoping for. We will see.
Arch mod for you billo
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/addot8/Car%20stuff/Gwyndafevansseat.jpg
looks the bussinees
ibizacupra
26-10-2005, 15:13
got me some F2 arches already... but GRP so cant use em for combe c'ship :(
I would luv to fit what I have and go full on widetrack but regs dont allow it.
Bill, do you know how much jabba will be knocking out those inlet manifolds for?
I've been after one for a long time thats motorsport orientated.
cheers
Bill, do you know how much jabba will be knocking out those inlet manifolds for?
I've been after one for a long time thats motorsport orientated.
cheers
they are designed for large port heads only i think :confused:
ibizacupra
27-10-2005, 08:16
they are designed for large port heads only i think :confused:
This one is largeport cos thats what I have.
I know what it cost, but not whether it will be a production item yet.... results from mine to be had yet.
How many miles you put on the beast now bill?
Gotta be tough keepin it under 4k with that amount of power under your right foot.
ibizacupra
27-10-2005, 14:17
had the odd excursion over 4K.. (wheelspin caused)
400+miles so far
had the odd excursion over 4K.. (wheelspin caused)
400+miles so far
I heard....and so did Macclesfield
:funk:
Ave it
Rob
ibizacupra
27-10-2005, 17:40
I heard....and so did Macclesfield
:funk:
Ave it
Rob
Hehe... must have been the greasy road.. :whistle:
0-100 in less than 10 secs now bill :whistle: bet you can't wait to give it some!
ibizacupra
27-10-2005, 22:33
traction limited unlike you steve.. but I can but try. :)
0-100 in less than 10 secs now bill :whistle: bet you can't wait to give it some!
If i can do it in my ibiza in around 10.8, Bill must do it in less than 9. With all the mods, his car should be bloody fast. Around 400 hp in ibiza :drool:
Was a GT28Rs hybrid with GT30R cold side iirc
Is it not a gt28rs with a 71trim turbine wheel.
I thought i was reading on this forum something like 430hp with a gt28rs in a skoda octavia rs, but don't remeber exactly. My friend was putting out 346hp with a gt28r, so close to 400 might be doable with a gt28rs, i am thinking about that setup at the moment because want to retain good spool up time of ko4-0023.
I think the oil cooler you put up in front will be a great idea since i noticed how fast the heat of oil levels increases on the track. Five fast laps and it is sky high [:@]
I highly doubt 400 out a gt28rs maybe with a gt2871rs
This one is largeport cos thats what I have.
I know what it cost, but not whether it will be a production item yet.... results from mine to be had yet.
Its OK jabba are making a batch after speakin with them today, i got a price too
My previous best lap times I hope to improve on were 1m17s laps which is top 3 C'ship times for this year.
Lighter more powerful car for next year. Big question is on tyres.
Other cars I know about are another ibiza (GT30R turbo'd), a Leon (PE1820 turbo'd, Ray West built car), Audi S3, Audi A4 (Keith Murrays one, just bought by existing c'ship competitor on saturday), and Keiths new A3 (2.0 16v turbo)
Let alone how many EVO's will enter as well, now there is a 4WD class and they call it A. :doh:
how do you think you will get on in the C/ship bill?this your first year in "competing"?we have all seen (and my god,with the jetta )heard you go for it,does it make any difference,enjoymentor serious pasty crown?
btw very good read.
ibizacupra
28-10-2005, 09:14
how do you think you will get on in the C/ship bill?this your first year in "competing"?we have all seen (and my god,with the jetta )heard you go for it,does it make any difference,enjoymentor serious pasty crown?
btw very good read.
I think next year will be very close... and significantly different cars in the series to this year. New class created for 4wd (A), following keith murrays dominance in his 1.8T quattro, wunning class A this year (up to 3000cc class this year 2wd/4wd)
Class B for next year is up to 3000cc 2wd cars.
Cars I know will be there from VAG land... keith murrays old A4, now sold new fellow competitor, keiths new A3 2.0t (2wd or 4wd), ibiza (GT30R), Leon (pe1820), me (1900 pe1820), S3.
competing in the mix will be scarey I think, but I have been in the mix over the years on track days in busy circumstances. competing with people who will happily punt you off however will be new to me. good incentive to qualify well and be out front & not midfield.
:Sponsorship Welcomed:
Calendar of Races released in Jan 06. Much work to do to car to change its spec to race from road car.
Ruddmeister
28-10-2005, 09:24
Bill
How many races over the season and which venues etc
Steve
ibizacupra
28-10-2005, 09:39
Venue is Castle Combe, single venue. Its their saloon car c'ship, sponsored (this year, probably next) by National Windscreens.
This year was 10 meetings for the year I think with one double header.
A change, which remains to be seen in action yet, is that Castle Combe Circuit have split from the BRSCC for some reason, and will run these c'ships themselves, inviting clubs themselves, marshalling themselves, not under the BRSCC banner. (BRSCC has a reputation for being less than organised in the paddock)
What C'Combe say is the competitors will see benefit of lower entry prices and more track time for their money and a more efficiently meetings. All this is TBA in Jan 06 so I have been told.
Its a bit frustrating not knowing the new vehicle regs until Jan, but minimal changes are said to be coming. Seeing is believing however as some 'rumoured' changes make some aspects of my car out of spec already. (bumper apatures and extra holes for example - legal this year, possibly not for next)
As with everything, there also seems to be a 'political undercurrent' from some long standing competitors (Cox's for example) who have always run atmo cars (longman engined pugs £££, and now 206's) - These previous winning cars/drivers have'nt been on the pace of the 2.0 turbo's cars (obviously on power levels) and they are moaning/lobbying with influence to chip away at the turbo'd cars advantages. The fact remains however the class, Class A this year was up to 3000cc, so allowed 2.0 turbo cars (x1.5 factor) and we all know its not going to be fair for a 2.0 atmo vs a 2.0 turbo car performance wise. The Cox's, the pug runners have long dominated the series, until recently, and now moan because they have stuck with their specs and others have moved past em.. Keith Murray's appearance this year as a novice and then dominating the series has upset the locals somewhat.. :whistle:
For next year I have have heard confirmed, indirectly, that Class A next year is the new 4wd class (up to 3000cc), Class B is 2WD up to 3000cc, and class C is old Class B&C rolled into one. (1400-1600 I think)
regards
bill
well i'm sure there will be support from here in one way or another bill,best way to avoid punts,stay infront ;) good luck mate
ibizacupra
28-10-2005, 13:57
well i'm sure there will be support from here in one way or another bill,best way to avoid punts,stay infront ;) good luck mate
What spurs me on is the car has already done 1m17s laps repeatably, which in this years c'ship is top 2 times. This is in a road spec car running all the road care weight (aircon, ABS, CD changer, full interior trim, airbags etc) - significant weight has come out already and more to follow when I let rip at it. New engine *should* count for some extra pace vs my tired one. Big difference which is significant is tyres. My 1m17s laps were on R888's which are a list 1b tyre. Legal tyres have to be list 1a for the c'ship which is not track rubber but road rubber. (like F1's, T1-S's etc) - 8x17 rims and 235 or 245 tyres are being sought to help compensate the change from narrower 205 R88 rubber to wider well chosen, buffed, road rubber from 2006 list 1a (which is'nt known until 2006 blue book comes out)
It will be a much closer year I predict in 2006. 1.8t powered motors in proliferation.
:funk:
Is it not a gt28rs with a 71trim turbine wheel.
no mate deffo got Gt30 on side(hybrid) pics used to be on hear somewhere, although james wont tell lol
1.8t powered motors in proliferation.
in what now? :confused: :cartman:
What spurs me on is the car has already done 1m17s laps repeatably, which in this years c'ship is top 2 times. This is in a road spec car running all the road care weight (aircon, ABS, CD changer, full interior trim, airbags etc) - significant weight has come out already and more to follow when I let rip at it. New engine *should* count for some extra pace vs my tired one. Big difference which is significant is tyres. My 1m17s laps were on R888's which are a list 1b tyre. Legal tyres have to be list 1a for the c'ship which is not track rubber but road rubber. (like F1's, T1-S's etc) - 8x17 rims and 235 or 245 tyres are being sought to help compensate the change from narrower 205 R88 rubber to wider well chosen, buffed, road rubber from 2006 list 1a (which is'nt known until 2006 blue book comes out)
It will be a much closer year I predict in 2006. 1.8t powered motors in proliferation.
:funk:
Bill, were you running r888's in 205/40/17?
Thanks
no mate deffo got Gt30 on side(hybrid) pics used to be on hear somewhere, although james wont tell lol
I think your right vern.
From looking at the mani it looks like a T3 flange with m10 stud so it must be a gt30 or above.
No water heat exchanger now. Just the sandwich plate & external cooler. If anything slightly more clearance than before.
How did jabba deal with the heat exchange, two water pipes? did they just join them together?
ibizacupra
30-10-2005, 11:12
badger-wagen dropped off yesterday back @ Jabba HQ.. just short of 600miles on it since last saturday.. (fecking petrol prices!)
twin fuel pumps, RS4 MAF, larger intake silicon hose and of course mikeT on the rollers.
going to be a long week waiting like an expectant father.
fingers & toes crossed it rips.
Looking good Bill. Hope you get the figures you are after. Can't wait to see the results.
What have you done to deal with the heat issues? I know that you've melted a couple of turbos/DPs already and surely that'll only get worse with the increased power. The EGT gauges will only show you the problem and now actually do anything to fix it. The fan will probably help a bit after you turn the engine off, but I doubt it'll help when actually running on track.
Are you still allowed to use Aquamist?
Ben
ibizacupra
30-10-2005, 11:33
Looking good Bill. Hope you get the figures you are after. Can't wait to see the results.
What have you done to deal with the heat issues? I know that you've melted a couple of turbos/DPs already and surely that'll only get worse with the increased power. The EGT gauges will only show you the problem and now actually do anything to fix it. The fan will probably help a bit after you turn the engine off, but I doubt it'll help when actually running on track.
Are you still allowed to use Aquamist?
Ben
3" DP Ben.. to help increase flow & not bottle it up on small turbo outlet pipe. Added EGT sensor & wideband to keep an eye on it and mapping to keep it safe. (remains to be seen but is in progress now)
Aquamist is still there, same spec. Will have to see its contribution to EGT's or not.
technically it should'nt have melted the last one... :think:
something was wrong, but unseen until too late.
I am hoping higher airflow thru motor will negate some heat issues and bottle necks. Unfortunately I have not been able to do my planned 3" full exhaust mod, so the 2.5" system will no doubt be the final bottle neck in my system. Money tree died so it will have to come when it comes, and I deffo think it will be req'd.
So you think the previous melting issue was due to something going wrong (e.g. fuel pump failing to deliver the requested flow) as opposed to that just being how hot it gets?
I'm sure your 2.5" system will cope if you managed to get > 300bhp through a 1" exhaust system (After your previous melting issue!). :)
It'll be interesting to see if your EGT gauge shows a significant difference between Aquamist on and off. You running just water now, or still running some methanol?
Forgot to ask, what boost are you going to be running? Do you know the turbos safe boost limit?
Ben
ibizacupra
30-10-2005, 16:31
So you think the previous melting issue was due to something going wrong (e.g. fuel pump failing to deliver the requested flow) as opposed to that just being how hot it gets?
I'm sure your 2.5" system will cope if you managed to get > 300bhp through a 1" exhaust system (After your previous melting issue!). :)
It'll be interesting to see if your EGT gauge shows a significant difference between Aquamist on and off. You running just water now, or still running some methanol?
Forgot to ask, what boost are you going to be running? Do you know the turbos safe boost limit?
Ben
wrong as in something not set right. there was no failure of components so in my mind it was something else setting wise.
aquamist will have 10% methanol in it as I have been running it on previously at the ring etc.. used to run 50% but 10% seemed to do the job too. (cold inlet mani)
VF34 was running 1.7bar so this one wont be running any less. have to see how it goes but miket and I discussed it yesterday... results will determin the level I want to run, but the turbo has larger compressor hanging off the same kinda shaft as a VF34, so loads of load on there maybe if asking too much.
kinda anxious to be honest on how this all pans out. :whistle:
going to be a long week waiting like an expectant father.
fingers & toes crossed it rips.
So mine will be another week then :cry:
ibizacupra
30-10-2005, 18:10
I drove yours back into the workshop yesterday.
not sure what day mines booked in for (booked before I collected the car some month+ ago), but elton & james have to fit the finish fuel system parts and larger intake before miket gets his hands on it.
miket did talk like he had been running yours tho yesterday
Me and the wife's expecting first baby on the 18th so if it's not ready in the next to weeks it'll be december before I pick it up,unless I can find a voulenter.
ibizacupra
30-10-2005, 19:51
Me and the wife's expecting first baby on the 18th so if it's not ready in the next to weeks it'll be december before I pick it up,unless I can find a voulenter.
wow, blimey Dan.. Good Luck to you both on that one. :thumbup:
I can see about the passenger seat harness now.. :)
Cheers,it's a girl i've all ready bought her first tool kit :D
Just an idea, not that I have actually measured or seen myself, but I have heard of in various tuning discussions on the efi101 forums.
Your excessive heat in the exhaust system could be caused by the ignition timing being to retarded, there is the possibility that there is significant amount of heat going out of the exhaust ports etc rather than being used in the standard cycle.
I don’t mean the ignition is so far retarded that you are running ignition timing like a turbo anti-lag set up, but it could be out just enough to cause problems.
Please don’t get me wrong I am not questioning any tuner or tuning methods here, but there is possibly that it has been tuned on the excessively safe side. Just an idea.
As most people tune for 'no knocking' etc It is hard to really know if th EGT’s are excessively high without measuring them. I see you are running an EGT guage on the new set up ;)
Did you damage any exhaust valves at the last failure ?
Keith
ibizacupra
02-11-2005, 09:54
Just an idea, not that I have actually measured or seen myself, but I have heard of in various tuning discussions on the efi101 forums.
Your excessive heat in the exhaust system could be caused by the ignition timing being to retarded, there is the possibility that there is significant amount of heat going out of the exhaust ports etc rather than being used in the standard cycle.
I don’t mean the ignition is so far retarded that you are running ignition timing like a turbo anti-lag set up, but it could be out just enough to cause problems.
Please don’t get me wrong I am not questioning any tuner or tuning methods here, but there is possibly that it has been tuned on the excessively safe side. Just an idea.
As most people tune for 'no knocking' etc It is hard to really know if th EGT’s are excessively high without measuring them. I see you are running an EGT guage on the new set up ;)
Did you damage any exhaust valves at the last failure ?
Keith
no valve damage no, on either meltdown. 1st meltdown I put down to excessive oil from breather going thru intake system... baffled sump, oil catch tanks & seperate systems employed since then. Remembering this is a track car predominantly which runs slicks on occasion. The meltdown this year remains a mystery to me as the runs the aforementioned oil system & breather mods and also aquamist, and has done some serious track usage previous to the meltdown problem with no other change.
It got too hot and it melted thats known, but whether the flexi DP failure was cause or effect of the exhaust housing meltdown will never be known. *maybe* the DP failed first, restricted the exhaust down to just over an inch diameter and then the backup of heat just tipped the balance. Something had changed, as vehicle spec had'nt so component failure could not be ruled out vs tuning.
Intresting. Plenty to think on there for you then!
I can imagine it is very anoying not knowing what caused the failure.
ibizacupra
02-11-2005, 11:36
Intresting. Plenty to think on there for you then!
I can imagine it is very anoying not knowing what caused the failure.
annoying/frustrating as if you dont know you cant fix it..
last years meltdown was attributable to oil in breather system from racing round donington, sticky tyres etc.... motor pinked badly... going down craners... backed off immediately returned to pits, plugged into with vagcom and a whole host of knock sensor related error's. Car used 1ltr of oil on that day, and all induction pipes, FMIC etc dripping with oil.
From that one I learnt baffled sump is a must have on 1.8t, seperate oil catch tank (wityh drain) and breather req'd for more safety, appropriate oil level for baffled sump, and addint aquamist as a belt n braces to help combat knock, (which was oil caused). This was all done and many many track miles done over the subsequent 12 months until it happened again at c'combe middle of this year. No knock sensor or any logged errors but melted exhaust housing again. Also flexi melted and collapsed into a 1" hole which may well have been the cause of exhaust heat build up. Mapping was fine on the 12 months up to then, but the BF DP had failed and is the most likely explanation as to the overheat. Std valves had it been in-cylinder overheating would have long died by now I would imagine.
Thats my best guess, but again not knowing EGT's and A/F ratio accurately it was at best - a guess.
New motor, new spec, new additional sensors to keep an eye on things. Pushing it harder on the new engine so I want to know whats going on to trim things as req'd.
Thats the theory enyhows.. time will tell.
Good luck with it all Bill,looks very nice.
ibizacupra
02-11-2005, 20:16
Good luck with it all Bill,looks very nice.
cheers Ryan..
a little bird told me its producing 1bar at 3K rpm now which is better than it was..
anxious or what! :blink:
Mike will get it right mate,you know that! "proper" racing sounds good but could be expensive with others pushing hard. Sounds like a near-on perfect spec for a single turbo set-up,cams are the only obvious missing component but now your running different valves you could tweak these later.When are you picking it up?
I am now convinced that you rob banks for a living Bill and this is your new 'getaway' car :p .
ibizacupra
02-11-2005, 21:15
Mike will get it right mate,you know that! "proper" racing sounds good but could be expensive with others pushing hard. Sounds like a near-on perfect spec for a single turbo set-up,cams are the only obvious missing component but now your running different valves you could tweak these later.When are you picking it up?
Cams rob the mid range and stick it up top so I am not overly keen to try em. Valve lift is marginal on OE springs which is another reason I dont want to overly extend the top end revs higher than 8K. Still running hydro followers & we think mechnical tappets will upset the knock sensors. Prolly more power than traction anyhows.. LOL
Supposed to be collecting on saturday.
Hope everyting goes ok ,if you do any circuits in Leicestershire then let me know and i'll pop down.Oh and don't think too much about the bill,yikes!!
Evo's always seem to respond to cams but then the new ix makes 400bhp with bolt-ons and tune,makes you sick!!
ibizacupra
03-11-2005, 08:46
Hope everyting goes ok ,if you do any circuits in Leicestershire then let me know and i'll pop down.Oh and don't think too much about the bill,yikes!!
Evo's always seem to respond to cams but then the new ix makes 400bhp with bolt-ons and tune,makes you sick!!
in next years combe c'ship there is a 4wd class of its own so I expect tuned evo's to appear :( but they're fair game I think and heavier with power to weight still evening out things even on very powerful EVO's. They have to stop and do corners too. :)
ibizacupra
04-11-2005, 17:15
any figures? :confused:
Yea but... no but, yea but , no but.. :p
Mapping taking longer than expected and some other changes to hardware required to do the job properly so I wont know or say until next weekend now.
390+bhp and 380+lbft so far from 1.2bar boost @ top end, and wastegate being blown open... so stronger actuator being fitted but this forces remap again so requires more time. 1.7bar top end from PE is desired, so 390bhp from 1.2bar is looking promising.
3" exhaust is an absolute must have... velocity thru the 2.5" system is taking the pi$$, so I have to find the funds to finish the job right. The velocity on full chat out the zorst will blow you over (Elton said he was nearly blown over from the exhaust extract rigged to map mine, and the only motive force blowing the fumes thru is my engine/exhaust pipe. Yikes!)
It apparently sounds insane on the rollers. Spool up of 1bar at 3K rpm now, so it is not a lag monstor, but its shaping up to be a beasty. :D
got another week to wait for results tho :doh: :cry:
bill
in the interests of science we demand you to stand at jabba with a video camera :D
Sounds good, what boost is it going to run once sorted.?
Sounds good,Mike likes to get things spot on,sounds like 440 is on the cards
Sounds very wicked indeed, deffo over 400 beyond 1.2 BAR then!
john banks
04-11-2005, 21:45
Will be interesting to see what the uprated actuator does. If the efficiency (hot and cold sides) at 1.7 bar is anything like it is at 1.2 bar (with 390 BHP) then you should be looking at nearly 480 BHP at the same RPM, but I think the turbo is too small for this. You may get more gains running 1.7 or more boost lower down and tapering it to hold it at peak power as early as possible as long as possible, gives more area under the curve. It is exhaust manifold pressure that is blowing the wastegate open after all, and the volumetric efficiency is the ratio of the absolute pressures in the inlet and exhaust manifolds. With lots of octane, excellent intercooling and a strong engine to take the cylinder pressures you'll be extracting every bit out of that turbo whilst keeping it responsive = big power band = fast.
Bill Always saw the 2.5" system as poor relation :D , but you said money tree was dead, thinking of what you spent to have over looked this would have been penny wise pound foolish :) glad to see this is being sorted Good luck
my guess 462 bhp/412 lbft @ jabba
Shock_Xe
04-11-2005, 22:35
Bill Always saw the 2.5" system as poor relation :D , but you said money tree was dead, thinking of what you spent to have over looked this would have been penny wise pound foolish :) glad to see this is being sorted Good luck
my guess 462 bhp/412 lbft @ jabba
I reckon 446bhp and 419lbs
Winner gets a bottle of plonk off brockbank :p :funk:
I reckon 446bhp and 419lbs
Winner gets a bottle of plonk off brockbank :p :funk:
Compo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get ya entries down
I'll send a bottle of plonk, to who guess's right, bill is excluded, after all he only paid for a compo :D if i win,i'll drink it lol
430bhp 420lbs ft on Jabbas rollers. Pushing it hard.
cpufreak
05-11-2005, 08:23
~440bhp/380lbft, with the torque tuned down slightly to protect the gearbox a little...
~440bhp/380lbft, with the torque tuned down slightly to protect the gearbox a little... i think it's a bit late to start worrying about the gearbox :)
ibizacupra
05-11-2005, 10:32
Will be interesting to see what the uprated actuator does. If the efficiency (hot and cold sides) at 1.7 bar is anything like it is at 1.2 bar (with 390 BHP) then you should be looking at nearly 480 BHP at the same RPM, but I think the turbo is too small for this. You may get more gains running 1.7 or more boost lower down and tapering it to hold it at peak power as early as possible as long as possible, gives more area under the curve. It is exhaust manifold pressure that is blowing the wastegate open after all, and the volumetric efficiency is the ratio of the absolute pressures in the inlet and exhaust manifolds. With lots of octane, excellent intercooling and a strong engine to take the cylinder pressures you'll be extracting every bit out of that turbo whilst keeping it responsive = big power band = fast.
I cant see the '20 housing being able to flow that much, but I dont really have a feel for what -ve contribution the blowing open of the wastegate is having. It was running 1.6/1.7bar mid range but this apparently has been tailing off uncontrolled at the higher rpms, which is where the motor is expected to rip.
Comparisons are being made to Maurice Reeve's plots which are the best Jabba have, and it matches them already, despite not having the top end boost we're asking it for, or schrick cams or solid lifter revving to 8.5K.
Low 400's looks likely, which will be mission accomplished. I hate to think how much the exhaust is backing total airflow up tho :(
ibizacupra
05-11-2005, 10:33
~440bhp/380lbft, with the torque tuned down slightly to protect the gearbox a little...
flat out m8.. whatever it does the box will have to live with it.
(I do have the boost controller however so it can be as docile as you like when it needs to be... but this car is being prepped into Race car from road car, do turning performance down is unlikely)
cpufreak
05-11-2005, 10:53
flat out m8.. whatever it does the box will have to live with it.
(I do have the boost controller however so it can be as docile as you like when it needs to be... but this car is being prepped into Race car from road car, do turning performance down is unlikely)
oh ok :D
I was just wondering if they'd tune it so torque would be limited to say 380lbft, and kept flat for wide range, at that...thus giving nice smooth tractical power.
ibizacupra
05-11-2005, 11:40
oh ok :D
I was just wondering if they'd tune it so torque would be limited to say 380lbft, and kept flat for wide range, at that...thus giving nice smooth tractical power.
tractable power.. soemthing I need 4wd for m8..
going to be lively.
All in all i have to say i look forward to the videos of this beast in action, it sounds absolutely nuts.... Bill you, have to go foraging under the money tree i think and try and pick up some scraps ... or go plant some new ones quickly ........ sure the missus wont mind if you sell the Lupo ... its for a good cause :D
ibizacupra
05-11-2005, 14:07
All in all i have to say i look forward to the videos of this beast in action, it sounds absolutely nuts.... Bill you, have to go foraging under the money tree i think and try and pick up some scraps ... or go plant some new ones quickly ........ sure the missus wont mind if you sell the Lupo ... its for a good cause :D
The S8 is for sale again. I kid you not :(
Ruddmeister
05-11-2005, 15:16
Compo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get ya entries down
I'll send a bottle of plonk, to who guess's right, bill is excluded, after all he only paid for a compo :D if i win,i'll drink it lol
Very generous Vern
449bhp 410lbsft @ Jabba
438BHP and 405lbft is my guess.
Daz_gibbo
05-11-2005, 17:53
427BHP and 408lbft
Mark@VAGWORX
05-11-2005, 18:24
420bhp 411lb/ft
CupraPower
05-11-2005, 20:00
420Bhp & 412lb/ft :p
412Bhp & 405lb/ft - shortly before it lunch's something else :hide:
fingers crossed eh ;)
traumapat
05-11-2005, 21:14
400 +???? whos doing the tyres? sellotape????
i guess 442 bhp. and 432 touque cause if you take 200 away from each thats what i have! :rolleyes:
good luck bill
Since you're all guessing jBhp, shouldn't you be using Nm?
Ruddmeister
05-11-2005, 22:04
Since you're all guessing jBhp, shouldn't you be using Nm?
You can convert Nm, but you can't convert JBHP :cartman:
Sorry! only playing :hide:
It's gonna be a mega quick car whatever the results ;)
john banks
05-11-2005, 22:46
I cant see the '20 housing being able to flow that much
As I mentioned earlier, P20 housing has done 519 BHP already on believable rollers, and 585 BHP on less believable ones. I don't believe that will be your restriction, I think it will be the turbine wheel.
get your guesses in Kw/jbhp/nm/lbft, whatever nearest wins a bottle :) ;)
430bhp 569nm
http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html
ibizacupra
06-11-2005, 09:19
As I mentioned earlier, P20 housing has done 519 BHP already on believable rollers, and 585 BHP on less believable ones. I don't believe that will be your restriction, I think it will be the turbine wheel.
The 20 housing is pretty thin in places already (from my melting experience) so I wonder what size turbine wheels can fit in there.. Not that I want a bigger one. Just curious.
500hp / 450ftlb
[LOL]
Dave
ibizacupra
06-11-2005, 09:49
500hp / 450ftlb
[LOL]
Dave
lol indeed... NOS req'd me thinks.
fuuny how this thread has turned...
place ya bets... LOL
CustardCupra
06-11-2005, 12:08
423bhp & 418LBFT
1080hp and 1000 ftlb
(chuck another one of them engines in the back :funk: )
ibizacupra
06-11-2005, 14:05
you iz all mad, innit
comes wiv a free flamer kit dont ya know
caution on exhaust side cos it will physically blow you over - has happened to someone already when it was on the dyno!
Scorchio
john banks
06-11-2005, 14:10
Bigger turbine will run cooler EGTs at the same power.
433bhp and 421lb/t of tyre squealing fun.
Bill get yourself a decent exhaust,whats £300/£400 compared to what it cost you and how much the race series will cost you.DO IT!!
you iz all mad, innit
comes wiv a free flamer kit dont ya know
caution on exhaust side cos it will physically blow you over - has happened to someone already when it was on the dyno!
Scorchio
It wont blow me over :lol:
It wont blow me over :lol:
Depends if i catches you in the cleft stu.... :banned: ......could spin you round easy as wink and then down you'd go
:flamed:
Dave
Depends if i catches you in the cleft stu.... :banned: ......could spin you round easy as wink and then down you'd go
:flamed:
Dave
Did I ever metion the time a double deck bus ran into me, then bounced straight back off? ;)
ibizacupra
06-11-2005, 16:38
It wont blow me over :lol:
well I would'nt bet on it m8.. the guy it blew over was'nt a skinny fella either (much like myself) :whistle:
Did he weigh 20 odd stone?
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 09:18
close to that I would guess...
Dormouse
07-11-2005, 11:49
20,000 Lb Thrust.
Crew : 1
Max take off weight : Bill + His Breakfast
Main Armament : Angry Looking Fluffy Badger Mascot
Max Speed : No idea but that's either a sonic boom or the internals are f**ked :(
Runway Required : Lots! But Generally Never Enough....
Dor.
425bhp 395lbft
I seriously hope its reliable for you Bill!
I need to find some money to get my 1.9 conversion done, although it wont be anything close to yours!
Ben
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 15:12
425bhp 395lbft
I seriously hope its reliable for you Bill!
I need to find some money to get my 1.9 conversion done, although it wont be anything close to yours!
Ben
cheers ben.
the old unit was 37k miles on ihi, tired but running ok.. new one should be no less IMHO, but its asking a lot from less than 2000cc turbo I know.
I'm gonna post some low figures coz i think it will be mapped "safer"
404bhp and 392lbft
422bhp and 435lbft my guess.
It will be the biggest single IHI out there.
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 16:26
422bhp and 435lbft my guess.
It will be the biggest single IHI out there.
there's one of these on a leon I will be racing against next year... although I think its 1781cc still. Damn that Elton for selling one to a competitor to be.. :) :bleh:
I cant wait until its done.
You a daddy yet Dan?
Do you know what results the Leon got and at what boost levels?
Was it done by Jabba?
Cheers
Ben
there's one of these on a leon I will be racing against next year... although I think its 1781cc still. Damn that Elton for selling one to a competitor to be.. :) :bleh:
Bet thats laggy then!!Can't you pick up a pe1820 from the states anyway?I was going to go for a pe1818 but the vf34p20 is probably more than enough in standard internal form.
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 17:43
Do you know what results the Leon got and at what boost levels?
Was it done by Jabba?
Cheers
Ben
not sure its running yet. its a leon being built by ray west tuning for the same combe c'ship.
jabba supplied the PE thats all (and manifold etc)
Bet thats laggy then!!Can't you pick up a pe1820 from the states anyway?I was going to go for a pe1818 but the vf34p20 is probably more than enough in standard internal form.
Would another 100cc really make that much diff?.
So do you rate these new valves over the inconel ones?Or did you use them so you had the option of cams at a later date,non-bias answer please!!
Would another 100cc really make that much diff?.
Was told by mike that it would be laggy,i mean if i had the rods and valves done and upped boost to 1.6 bar held it would be like a rocket anyway.
The cost to do this is not worth the gain imho.
Would Jabba say any different. I reckon a Pe1820f on a 1.8t with rods, valves, and s3/lcr/tt pistons would not be a million miles off a 1.9L. I cant see it being anymore than 100-200rpm. But what do i know (not much i admit).
Hmm,running a small port head but would that aid or hinder spool up?Would need injectors and fuel pump to run a pe1820.Not worth the expense imho
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 18:28
So do you rate these new valves over the inconel ones?Or did you use them so you had the option of cams at a later date,non-bias answer please!!
I dont follow?
mine are inconel valves. for peace of mind for me. (having suffered to my cost the effects of a std one dropping on the mk4)
cams vs extra lift is a spring issue and coil bind.. which I dont fancy having.
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 18:30
Would another 100cc really make that much diff?.
you ask that... but it really does.
deshrouding 2 of the intake valves as much as some extra cc. extra mm in the bore which 2 of the intake valves are wedged against, so more total airflow around the valve for the same lift.
much better off boost torque and response.
jabba 1900 is 82.5mm and mine is 83mm
there's one of these on a leon I will be racing against next year... although I think its 1781cc still. Damn that Elton for selling one to a competitor to be.. :) :bleh:
I cant wait until its done.
You a daddy yet Dan?
I think the leon would need mapping by mike if it was to be a true competitor.I know quite a few IHI boys that haven't been mapped by mike and they don't drive no where near as well or make the power.
Week on friday baby due wifes having a c section..can't wait
Would another 100cc really make that much diff?.
I have driven a 1.8t on a vf22 which went to 1.9 massive difference in driveability the torque is noticable even with out a remap.I would recomend 1.9 don't no why I didn't on the last engine rebuild.
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 18:44
400/400-guess
Is that the current output??
Like you guys said the 1.9 makes alot of difference apparently,for me it will be TT or nothing now.
Is that the current output??
Like you guys said the 1.9 makes alot of difference apparently,for me it will be TT or nothing now.
Would you use the 1.9 for TT though?
Nope i'll go for the 2.0 with the crank aswell if i do it.
you ask that... but it really does.
deshrouding 2 of the intake valves as much as some extra cc. extra mm in the bore which 2 of the intake valves are wedged against, so more total airflow around the valve for the same lift.
much better off boost torque and response.
jabba 1900 is 82.5mm and mine is 83mm
So Jabba's '1900' is none of the sort then, it actually being a 1847. Yours will be a 1870 so god only knows what the new eurospec '2.2' would go like (100mm 4130 crank with 83mm pistons = 2164cc, with something like a GT35 on it......600hp ?)
Wonder when we will see a pukka 2L 20VT - 92.8mm crank with 82.5's = 1984 or 2008 with 83's....you may need this to get past that Ray West Leon LOL.
Those eurospec cranks look bloody good to me - available in 86.4, 92.8, 95.5 and 100.0mm.
Ave it
Rob
Wonder when we will see a pukka 2L 20VT - 92.8mm crank with 82.5's = 1984 or 2008 with 83's....you may need this to get past that Ray West Leon LOL.
Those eurospec cranks look bloody good to me - available in 86.4, 92.8, 95.5 and 100.0mm.
Ave it
Rob
Do Eurospec not use 82.5mm pistons?
I know of one person that has ordered a 2.2 but i've heard they don't rev aswell,this was also the case with 2.2 stokers in my celica/mr2 days.
CustardCupra
07-11-2005, 19:34
Do Eurospec not use 82.5mm pistons?
Hope this isn't the same Eurospec company that sold all those EO5 turbo's that blew up :whistle:
Do Eurospec not use 82.5mm pistons?
Not actually sure - but if they are using 82.5's that would be a 2138cc.....and in my book thats a 2.1 not a 2.2
Dont know why they wouldnot use 83's on such an engine - like Bill has done - unless they are concerned about wall flex / block integrity - but they are using a diesel block in anycase so not directly comparable, also with a block girdle so I would think it would take 83's but who knows
Rob
I know of one person that has ordered a 2.2 but i've heard they don't rev aswell,this was also the case with 2.2 stokers in my celica/mr2 days.
Wouldn't have thought 'revs' was a big deal on a turbo moter - with all that torque - long gears and fewer changes sounds good to me
CupraR-Rog
07-11-2005, 20:30
When, oh when will we get the results???
When, oh when will we get the results???
When the car's back from 'powerflow' :cartman:
:duck:
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 21:05
all in good time
CupraR-Rog
07-11-2005, 21:08
Bill, I bet you're as excited as a kid on the run up to Christmas!!!!
When you taking me out for a spin??
Did you "sort" that exhaust.
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 21:25
When the car's back from 'powerflow' :cartman:
:duck:
*cough*
[B)]
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 21:26
Did you "sort" that exhaust.
i have'nt got the car... its with jabba.
still on its 2.5" system
3" to come as soon as I can afford it
psssttt-wanna buy a dump valve mr?
CupraR-Rog
07-11-2005, 21:27
Bill, dig out the credit card and get a 3" on it!!! You know you have to!!
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 21:31
i wish it was that easy m8..
4-sale one audi s8.. :) you know you want to.
Perhaps a mega sale at badger 5??
Fit some valves to my motor and i'll give you some cash for your zorst.
CupraR-Rog
07-11-2005, 21:36
And you know I want to as well mate!!! A nice step up from what I have at the mo!!
CupraR-Rog
07-11-2005, 21:37
Perhaps a mega sale at badger 5??
Fit some valves to my motor and i'll give you some cash for your zorst.
Top idea!!
are you looking at getting a tt ryan or have i read that wrong?
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 21:43
Perhaps a mega sale at badger 5??
Fit some valves to my motor and i'll give you some cash for your zorst.
I have some valves, if you wanted valves..
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 21:45
are you looking at getting a tt ryan or have i read that wrong?
i think the t t in this tt is Twin Turbo if I am not mystaken
seems someone got a little over eager in the figures they told me late last week.
I'll stick to my 400/400 numbers myself. Motor is working quite hard apparently.
We will see. Its with mikeT so work his magic and for me to hodl my breath in anticipation.. but its killing me.
CupraR-Rog
07-11-2005, 21:47
Breathe Bill, BREATHE!!! :blink:
yep twin turbo,although it's not something i'm ready to sign up for just yet.I mean if you want to fit valves that i purchase from you it might generate some cash ?offers there anyway.
CupraR-Rog
07-11-2005, 22:15
The again Bill, why not just get this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4587459092) to race with?? ;)
The again Bill, why not just get this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4587459092) to race with?? ;)
No, he should buy it for parts. Sod the 3" exhaust, 7" is the way forwards :funk:
400/400-guess
Fingers and toes crossed for you Bill when do you collect and do you have to go back on the rollers after the new exhaust?
ibizacupra
07-11-2005, 23:51
Fingers and toes crossed for you Bill when do you collect and do you have to go back on the rollers after the new exhaust?
given I have wideband and egt I will be keeping an eye on it.. to compare before to after. hopefully not have to remap again.
might get it back on saturday... maybe.
Fingers and toes crossed for you Bill blimey! he's waiting to get his car back not going in for a heart bypass :)
ibizacupra
08-11-2005, 08:42
blimey! he's waiting to get his car back not going in for a heart bypass :)
well... heart bypass might be less stressfull.
there is a whole lot of mula invested in this motor.
blimey! he's waiting to get his car back not going in for a heart bypass :)
The thing is I wont get my car done untill Bills is all finished
ibizacupra
08-11-2005, 12:15
eak!
ibizacupra
09-11-2005, 22:17
Any news Bill?.
:no:
:shrug:
Its the best bit waiting.
ibizacupra
09-11-2005, 22:51
:no: it aint
And it aint when you wait as long as me....always good results in the end though ;)
ibizacupra
09-11-2005, 23:07
And it aint when you wait as long as me....always good results in the end though ;)
you are a very patient man Dan, thats all I can say.. :worship:
I need to collect on saturday as I have a shed load of work to do to it to prep for a test day I have booked at Combe in Dec. :doh:
You'll manage it everything will fall together 1min before you go out on track,i've seen it many times in many other races.
C'mon Bill spill the beans. You know the figures.
CupraR-Rog
11-11-2005, 19:12
I've just sent Bill a text asking when he's going to let us know!!
It better be soon!! :blink:
CupraR-Rog
11-11-2005, 19:16
I've just sent Bill a text asking when he's going to let us know!!
It better be soon!! :blink:
Text back from Bill says...
...Find out WEDNESDAY!!! :cry:
Talk about torture!!
Its got to be good if its taking this long.
Its got to be good if its taking this long.
I think my bottle of plonk maybe safe, heard bill needs nos to even bust 400 bhp :(
Hehehehehehe :p
Bottle of plonk from Vern for the person who gets the date that we find out right :bleh:
Bottle of plonk from Vern for the person who gets the date that we find out right :bleh:
O.k then and a polished charge pipe from you and free P+P :lol: :p
Can it really take 10 days to adjust a map?
or is it a round-to-it job
Maybe there getting a gt30r strapped on.
Or maybe Bills found some cash down the side of a sofa (or bank!) to pay for the 3 inch exhaust!
Is there anyone who isn't interested in the out come?!
Gone awful silent on this,
Maybe its blown up.... :hide:
Ruddmeister
12-11-2005, 00:03
Come on Bill.....you can tell us ;)
Maybe he doesn't know anything?
Maybe he's on his way to Peterborough as we speak...
ibizacupra
12-11-2005, 15:32
I think my bottle of plonk maybe safe, heard bill needs nos to even bust 400 bhp :(
Hehehehehehe :p
We'll see Vern ;)
ibizacupra
12-11-2005, 15:32
Can it really take 10 days to adjust a map?
or is it a round-to-it job
Nope.. :no:
all depends when they start the job :whistle: :doh:
Ruddmeister
12-11-2005, 15:34
Nope.. :no:
all depends when they start the job :whistle: :doh:
You'd expect to be a priority with the amount of Mooola your spending :(
ibizacupra
12-11-2005, 15:34
Come on Bill.....you can tell us ;)
wish I could m8..
Weds is mapping day... (this week did'nt amount to much)
Now struggling to arrange to collect it... :doh:
I hated every minute of waiting for the results!!Then there was when it went back after modifications and praying it was what i thought it was.Good luck to you Bill.
ibizacupra
12-11-2005, 16:18
You'd expect to be a priority with the amount of Mooola your spending :(
:shrug: :cry:
wanna buy a kidney? (T-total, never been abused) :p
How much do you reckon rods and valves would be supply and fit,roughly?
:shrug: :cry:
wanna buy a kidney? (T-total, never been abused) :p
How about your soul? :)
How much do you reckon rods and valves would be supply and fit,roughly?rods are 6-700,valves 350 so you're looking at a grand or so plus fitting. not much change from 2 grand mate :blink: