View Full Version : What to choose?
To one hand we have Hurricaine kit,DV007P,spacers and at the other hand we have intercooler
What is your opinion?
Intercooler will give +20 bhp i think...
isn't the I/C gonna be about 1000 Euro's?
M
I would go for the intercooler. going to give proper gains
ibizacupra
25-07-2002, 20:20
Originally posted by Greece
To one hand we have Hurricaine kit,DV007P,spacers and at the other hand we have intercooler
What is your opinion?
Intercooler will give +20 bhp i think...
20bhp from intercooler.
Chipped I presume.
Not so sure you will.
Bill
ibizacupra
25-07-2002, 21:34
Found this on VORTEX.. worth a look see,..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=405428
charge temp here. http://www.matrixengineering.cc/products/images/forgeproducts/mk4fmic/2.html
Does'nt make sense it starts 10'C lower on dyno run... should start at the same temp... Inconclusive :(
Dyno here>> http://www.matrixengineering.cc/products/images/forgeproducts/mk4fmic/3.html
Stock engine by the looks of it. Chipped motor would benefit a lot more from a FMIC.
As a comparison, Jabbasport said their Ibiza Chargecooler pegs at 30'C through a dyno run. :)
regards
Bill
Hmmm, Bill are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Looking at the stock SMIC, it seems very similar in width and depth to the stock Ibiza I/C but 2 to 2.5 times 'taller'?
I wonder.........
Does anyone know of a crashed TT/S3 where I can scavenge an SMIC? ;)
It might be just enough to handle a chipped K0-3?
i am testing the standard i/c at the moment on my car with a temp probe in the i/c and with the car at 135 mph it was running 33 degres c and then i had it chipped and the temp went up to 53 , and my friend has his own company who makes i/c etc and we are making one for my ibiza 20vt at the moment , www.grsmotorsport.co.uk
ibizacupra
26-07-2002, 09:50
Originally posted by Glenn
Hmmm, Bill are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Looking at the stock SMIC, it seems very similar in width and depth to the stock Ibiza I/C but 2 to 2.5 times 'taller'?
I wonder.........
Does anyone know of a crashed TT/S3 where I can scavenge an SMIC? ;)
It might be just enough to handle a chipped K0-3?
If I was'nt going for IHI and its mandatory chargecooler, I would be thinking along these lines too. :D
I am still looking to water spray the factory intercooler and have some nozzles, pump and pipework to have a play.
regards
Bill
CustardCupra
26-07-2002, 12:50
Originally posted by ibizacupra
Found this on VORTEX.. worth a look see,..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=405428
charge temp here. http://www.matrixengineering.cc/products/images/forgeproducts/mk4fmic/2.html
Does'nt make sense it starts 10'C lower on dyno run... should start at the same temp... Inconclusive :(
Dyno here>> http://www.matrixengineering.cc/products/images/forgeproducts/mk4fmic/3.html
Stock engine by the looks of it. Chipped motor would benefit a lot more from a FMIC.
As a comparison, Jabbasport said their Ibiza Chargecooler pegs at 30'C through a dyno run. :)
regards
Bill
Bill , any idea how much Jabbasports chargecooler is and if its available yet .
Would it be worth fitting one to my car as the furthest i'm modding my own motor will be KKK04 , Turbo inlet , downpipe + cat. Already have2.5 miltek, DV , Hurricane .
OR just fit larger intercooler????
Hope tosee 250Bhp when all done
Jools
Originally posted by ibizacupra
If I was'nt going for IHI and its mandatory chargecooler, I would be thinking along these lines too. :D
I am still looking to water spray the factory intercooler and have some nozzles, pump and pipework to have a play.
regards
Bill
space for the pump is all thats holding me back. I am also looking to contract a funnel for the intercooler.
charge coolers are crap as you cant cool the water down when you are in traffic , plus there is more to go wrong e.g pumps !
ibizacupra
26-07-2002, 13:43
Originally posted by jools
Bill , any idea how much Jabbasports chargecooler is and if its available yet .
Would it be worth fitting one to my car as the furthest i'm modding my own motor will be KKK04 , Turbo inlet , downpipe + cat. Already have2.5 miltek, DV , Hurricane .
OR just fit larger intercooler????
Hope tosee 250Bhp when all done
Jools Its not done yet, but has to be as my IHI conversion is due next so they have to make another one. Patterns for production version have been done ready.
No idea on price tho. Sorry.
It will be well worth it on a K04, as the chargetemps wil likely be higher on K04 than for IHI, given the restrictive nature of K04 and its manifold compared to an IHI and manifold. It's compact, and from what Mike T told me, ran 30'C max on his dyno, despite repeated runs.. Stock intercooler would be way about 60'C or more by then. (I have seen 80'C on my own at Powerstation last year on their dyno) EAK!
Its greatest benefit is that of compact fitment. Spacer is a real premium in the Ibiza Cupra 20VT engine bay.
regards
Bill
ibizacupra
26-07-2002, 13:47
Originally posted by gilly
charge coolers are crap as you cant cool the water down when you are in traffic , plus there is more to go wrong e.g pumps !
Erm.. Sorry but I think you're wrong.
By that rational, water radiators would never cool our engines either in traffic. Thats why fans are fitted. The chargecooler rad is fitted in front of the others, so when the main engine wants its fans on, the chargecooler one also benefits from the airflow. The sizing of the system capacity, flowrate, and heat dissipation will all affect how well the things works tho.
If required a stat on the chargecooler system could be fitted to override the main engines switch on for its own purposes. (if required)
Air to air intercoolers don't dissipate as much heat parked in traffic either, but then again, not too much boost created heat soak being created whilst in traffic jams is there.
As for more to go wrong... well there's so much factory stuff on there anyway, whats the issue with a pump. Only one more electrical thing...amongst 100's. Not a reason to not do it, else you would'nt mod anything on your engine using that as your guide.
regards
Bill
chargecooler means that you don't have a great big intercooler stuck infront of your radiator which can cause the engine temp to rise. one probelm with charge coolers is space for the cooler itself, pump and piping
you need to get cold air threw the charge cooler to make it work so if you are stuck in traffic it will rise , then it will take a few mins to cool that water down to get a cool charge , a large intercooler will always be better then a charge cooler , as for the standard intercooler its not as bad as you all think , mine is running 17 psi boost and the most ive seen is 53 degrees c on a very hot day (outside temp was 24 degrees c ) and i have a very good temp probe in you intercooler at the moment , as we are testing them to make a better one (i.e below 30 degrees c which is what you want )
but your not using boost if your stuck in traffic. if you have a big intercooler in front of your radiator then when you do get into free flowing traffic your engine is going to take a time to cool down unlike the one with the charge cooler
al depends on where you mount ot !
ibizacupra
26-07-2002, 14:12
Originally posted by vibrio
chargecooler means that you don't have a great big intercooler stuck infront of your radiator which can cause the engine temp to rise. one probelm with charge coolers is space for the cooler itself, pump and piping
Charge coolers can be very useful on space limited engine bays... like 20VT Ibiza's ! A small more efficient charge cooler will work as well if not better than a large FMIC (air to air)
Its much easier to route smaller coolant hoses, and compact chargecooler than large induction hoses and FMIC. Water radiator is smaller than a FMIC so its 6 of one and half dozen of the other.
Mount a badly designed chargecooler system and it will likely suck big time, but that can go for anything. Thats not the point is it?
Bill
Jabba's Chargecooler retains the stock I/C in the system too doesn't it?
ibizacupra
26-07-2002, 14:17
Originally posted by gilly
you need to get cold air threw the charge cooler to make it work so if you are stuck in traffic it will rise , then it will take a few mins to cool that water down to get a cool charge , a large intercooler will always be better then a charge cooler , as for the standard intercooler its not as bad as you all think , mine is running 17 psi boost and the most ive seen is 53 degrees c on a very hot day (outside temp was 24 degrees c ) and i have a very good temp probe in you intercooler at the moment , as we are testing them to make a better one (i.e below 30 degrees c which is what you want )
You need to have cooler WATER to make the chargecooler work. Hence the radiator and water pump, and fan to cool the radiator.
Spacer for a larger intercooler is a big issue. Charge cooler is more efficient (water conducts heat much better than air) so a more compact chargecooler can be as effective as a huge air to air intercooler, but be easier to install, especially in a tight engine bay like the 20VT Ibiza.
I have also seen 50+ degrees datalogging on the road with VAGCOM on a 20'C ambiant day. If Mike T's 30'C max figure runs true for mine, I will be very happy. Add some ice cubes to the coolant bottle and way hay :D even better induction. (just need to make sure antifreeze is also fitted in winter !:p)
regards
Bill
ibizacupra
26-07-2002, 14:23
Originally posted by Glenn
Jabba's Chargecooler retains the stock I/C in the system too doesn't it?
Yes..
and I am adding a water spray to it. :D
Bill
ibizacupra
26-07-2002, 14:45
Originally posted by vibrio
copy cat :D
I doubt either of us are first ;)
Copycat?
Great minds thinks alike! :D
regards
Bill
I need a decent nozzel. the one I have the know is just off a car windscreen wash.
You want a sprayball on the end of it, out of interest tho, i see the design in watersprays, but doesnt the water have to be cold to work?
Saul,
the moving air will cool it loads mate
stick your hand out the window with ice cold water on it & it'll feel cold
stick your hand out the window with boiling water on it & it'll ......
no, don't use boiling water, but you get the idea.
ibizacupra
27-07-2002, 18:33
Originally posted by vibrio
I need a decent nozzel. the one I have the know is just off a car windscreen wash.
I have a packet of decent nozzles :D
;)
Bill
any chance of sharing these nozzels.
how does you temp go when you use boost??
I am going to set a spray up for the radiator as well
ibizacupra
28-07-2002, 15:33
Originally posted by vibrio
any chance of sharing these nozzels.
how does you temp go when you use boost??
I am going to set a spray up for the radiator as well
I'll give you a clue regarding the nozzles.
Go to your local garden centre and get some Gardena Mister nozzles. £3.45 for 5 :D
Do you mean water temp or charge temp?
Bill
water temp.
interesting article in fast ford ( I think) this month about intercoolers and inlet temps etc