View Full Version : BT seems lame now.
Twin Turbo's also a bit old hat
Owen Developments had this kit on their stand for an Evo
http://www.seatcupra.net/m0rk/quad.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/m0rk/quad1.jpg
thinking outside the box by a long shot
i like that - looks like 4 tdi turbos :p
wouldnt it suffer from pulsing though ?
stoneyfordNI
12-01-2006, 22:00
have they actually run that set up , any figures
Is that for the 1.8 20v?
See 2nd line of 1st post :)
yes flapper - I'd have thought that too.... vari-boost.
I think it is more of a 'look what we can make' rather than look what's good & works
See 2nd line of 1st post :)
yes flapper - I'd have thought that too.... vari-boost.
LOL sorry dude to busy watching TV as well.
Baring in mind the power you can get from a single turbo on that lump it must generate some serious power, heat as well I'd imagaine.
stoneyfordNI
12-01-2006, 22:06
not TDI turbos i dont thinik , is that an external wastegate lurking between the downpipes in pic 1
yes flapper - I'd have thought that too.... vari-boost.
probably sound like a scooby too - :lol:
that would put teh cat in the pigeons [B)]
cupra R con
12-01-2006, 22:39
oh behave, that could never work!
jees, no one can really make sequential turbo's work this side of a proper supercar, how are they going to get that idea off the ground ;)
oh behave, that could never work!
jees, no one can really make sequential turbo's work this side of a proper supercar, how are they going to get that idea off the ground ;)
those are paralell not sequential isnt it ? or is it ? confused now LOL
bmw's new diesel uses a variable sequential twin turbo - one after the other http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2544/article.html not as simple as that but a very interesting read i can suggest looking at
plus we were bored at work with a whiteboard and tried to work out what/how
AlphaMale
12-01-2006, 22:56
Looks good - and would be awesome to pop your bonnet in front of your mates at a meet to show off, I would question 'if' it would work that well ... But then stranger things have happened.
Alpha
stoneyfordNI
12-01-2006, 22:58
am sure owens could make it work , where they not the guys who built the FQ400s on behalf of ralliart
cupra R con
12-01-2006, 23:06
those are paralell not sequential isnt it ? or is it ? confused now LOL
bmw's new diesel uses a variable sequential twin turbo - one after the other http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2544/article.html not as simple as that but a very interesting read i can suggest looking at
plus we were bored at work with a whiteboard and tried to work out what/how
yup, parallel.
but all I'm saying is the technology of the sequential turbo was first fitted to he 959 over 20 years ago & they still can't make it cost effective as its too complicated.
imagine four turbos, & if things are not 100%, that would be one hell of a 'mare'
one cancelling out the other, or gasses meeting a bottleneck at the same time?
something would have to give big time :(
AlphaMale
12-01-2006, 23:07
am sure owens could make it work , where they not the guys who built the FQ400s on behalf of ralliart
Yes they did, But I don't think that was much of a success :(
Few people on MLR with them and most would prefer a tuned FQ 340 MR. The lag on such a turbo is silly. But they had to consider a lot when developing a road reliable car to push 400bhp.
But Owens are a well reliable company and I am sure if they wanted to make it work they could :yes:
Alpha
it's not hard to bolt a bigger turbo on is it.... it's not like 'making' an FQ400 is starting from scratch
AlphaMale
13-01-2006, 10:57
M0rk there's a little more going on in the FQ400 than simply bolting a big turbo on it ;)
I don't think the Top Gear review did it much justice as nobody is going to drive an FQ400 at 30mph in 6th and try and pull off :confused:
Personally I'd rather go for a FQ340 and tune it with the thousands of pounds I saved :funk:
Alpha
Personally I'd rather go for a FQ340 and tune it with the thousands of pounds I saved :funk:
Alpha
They aint all that even then
Ruddmeister
13-01-2006, 11:22
They aint all that even then
A tuned FQ340?? I think is ALL that......maybe a bit more too
AlphaMale
13-01-2006, 11:23
No?
I have been in a FQ320 and was quite impressed when it was standard! It may not be a Norris Designs Evo but with 400bhp+ on a turbo that doesn't have as much lag as the FQ400 I'd be quite happy with a tuned FQ340!!! :yes:
What would you suggest as a worthy competitor for a AWD 430bhp FQ340 MR?
Alpha
AlphaMale
13-01-2006, 11:24
They aint all that even then
How many Evo's have you driven out of curiosity? :whistle:
Alpha
My old man has a fq340 that has been breathed over, like I said ... not all that. I drove it back from southampton last summer, caned the bollucks off it. Didnt blow me away as much as I was expecting, personally thought his previous STi was quicker, agained modified.
Oh, and the 400 is a stupidly quick car, I drove white doves last year ;)
AlphaMale
13-01-2006, 12:02
My old man has a fq340 that has been breathed over, like I said ... not all that. I drove it back from southampton last summer, caned the bollucks off it. Didnt blow me away as much as I was expecting, personally thought his previous STi was quicker, agained modified.
Oh, and the 400 is a stupidly quick car, I drove white doves last year ;)
Hmmmm ... If an modified FQ340 isn't gonna give you a thrill you might wanna sell your Cupra, and get a Ultima GTR or maybe a Veyaron :shrug:
White Dove let you drive an FQ400? ... People who wanted to PX TME and Evo 7/8's couldn't drive a FQ400 on test drive so how the hell did you manage that one?
As soon as the FQ400 came out someone wrote it off on a test drive so Mitsubishi stopped Joe public from driving them, If you are interested in a FQ400 and have the means to pay or the dealer thinks you are genuine then the salesman will take you out but he WILL drive :confused:
Plus I'd rather spend £31,999 on a FQ340 and ask Norris Designs what could he do with the £15,000 saving over a £46,999 FQ400.
I'm sure I'd have it back with a 2.2 JUN engine & a GT3040 blower pushing 500+bhp and 450+lb/ft! ... Which WOULD be quicker than a FQ400!!! [B)]
Alpha
Thats total bollucks about mitsi not letting potential buyers test drive 400's. Salesmen love the sight of cold hard cash.
As for selling the cupra, its a possibilty. Its a disapointing car if im totally honest.
Personally would never consider an evo, surrounded by far too much hype. Would rather a mk1 escort, a real car. No playstations involved. Evos/imprezas and the like make you look good, a real car requires real driving ability.
warren_cox
13-01-2006, 13:01
RevoKev's Evo VI TME which was fairly standard made my LCR Revo 2 seem absolutely ordinary, and that must have been around 300bhp-ish. It felt like a focussed driving machine as opposed to a converted family hatch. You'd have to be an able driver to keep the power on song and everything in check in an FQ400, or 340(particularly if modified).
Look at the engineering in them, and the consideration given to the materials used. The Escort Cossie was a great car in its day, but I don't think its seriously a match for a balls out Evo. I've never driven a Cossie, and although I'm not a Ford man I've always respected their RS / Cossy philosophies.
The figures speak for themselves. Anyway, heading off topic, but a 340 modded would be my choice.
AlphaMale
13-01-2006, 13:07
Thats total bollucks about mitsi not letting potential buyers test drive 400's. Salesmen love the sight of cold hard cash.
As for selling the cupra, its a possibilty. Its a disapointing car if im totally honest.
Personally would never consider an evo, surrounded by far too much hype. Would rather a mk1 escort, a real car. No playstations involved. Evos/imprezas and the like make you look good, a real car requires real driving ability.
Salesmen don't love the sight or cost of smashed up limited edition cars I can tell you!:blink:
Your cupra is diapointing? ... Ask Bill for a go in his 1.9 20vT.
I tell you what, you go and buy a Mk1 Escort and I'll put my gran in a Norris Design Evo RS and we'll see who wins :cartman:
"No playstations involved. Evos/imprezas and the like make you look good, a real car requires real driving ability." ... Are you saying your a good driver? :rolleyes:
Alpha
AlphaMale
13-01-2006, 13:11
The Escort Cossie was a great car in its day, but I don't think its seriously a match for a balls out Evo. I've never driven a Cossie, and although I'm not a Ford man I've always respected their RS / Cossy philosophies.
If he said an Escort Cosworth I would say ... If your a good enough driver you may keep up, But he is on about a Mk1 Escort!!!
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/makkesgarage3/visitors/v1-1.jpg
V
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/M/mitsubishi/evo/03-large/04-mr-340-f3q-s.jpg
Alpha
warren_cox
13-01-2006, 13:30
http://www.motorbase.com/uploads/2003/05/05/fs_mex10_450.jpg
http://www.motorbase.com/vehicle/by-id/1307/
:confused:
The Mexico has a top speed of 99mph / 86bhp (1599cc) according to this website, and wasn't that the top of the range Mk1. The RS version had stiffened two door shell and suspension kit.
How can you mention that in the same sentence as an Evo?!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/stirling/NOB6.jpg
Far better looking than any evo, no playstation involoved.
AlphaMale
13-01-2006, 13:43
What planet are you on mate? :confused:
Alpha
So because I dont bow down to the 'a mitsi evo is great everything else is therefore shit' theory, im on a different planet? .... fortunatly im not that blinkered.
thermalp4
13-01-2006, 14:15
Hold on now Mr Jones.
Tell me something. Why did you buy a Cupra? I'm thinking you bought it cause it was a lot better than that Fiesta you had with the Sparco seats!!
Regardless whether or not you've actually driven a modded FQ340 I know for a fact that no Mitsi garage would allow you, and especially you with the way you drive, to test drive an FQ400.
Personally I'm not a fan of the EVO cause i like my German cars, but I know myself that that even the EVO 6 that my Cousins boyfriend has got is a match for any car when driven properly.
I know its your opinion and everyone is allowed freedom of speech, but you've just come on here and dismissed the EVO, which is ok, but its the way you've done it.
Attitude mate.
As far as comparing a MK1 Escort to an EVO, well, thats your mentality summed up in second.
Lastly, you owe my mate a new wing mirror from when you were hammering it through the blind church village lanes a few months back.
I can't say a nicely prepped Mk1 Escort doesn't pluck my heart strings tho.
And the more developed Rally cars with >200bhp from a well revvy engine do shift - and are more entertaining to watch than the Evo's
please note - entertaining to watch is not 'timing'
Hold on now Mr Jones.
Tell me something. Why did you buy a Cupra? I'm thinking you bought it cause it was a lot better than that Fiesta you had with the Sparco seats!!
Regardless whether or not you've actually driven a modded FQ340 I know for a fact that no Mitsi garage would allow you, and especially you with the way you drive, to test drive an FQ400.
Personally I'm not a fan of the EVO cause i like my German cars, but I know myself that that even the EVO 6 that my Cousins boyfriend has got is a match for any car when driven properly.
I know its your opinion and everyone is allowed freedom of speech, but you've just come on here and dismissed the EVO, which is ok, but its the way you've done it.
Attitude mate.
As far as comparing a MK1 Escort to an EVO, well, thats your mentality summed up in second.
Lastly, you owe my mate a new wing mirror from when you were hammering it through the blind church village lanes a few months back.
Lets not go and turn this into some sort of personal grudge, which it clearly is.... isnt it Andy?
It wasnt a evo vs mk1 statement, I was just stating that the evo's I have personally driven, along with a fair few imprezas, have left me feeling numb - quite frankly bored. I picked the mk1 as an simply because thats what I like. Its all well and good having all the hp in the world, and a computer that can make you look like a wrc driver. Does nothing for me.
As for buying the cupra, I wasnt looking for a ibiza. Was orginally looking for a family car, Golf GTi was the first choice. Ibiza was a last minute thing.
Finally - I geniunly dont remeber hitting a wing mirror, PM me and let me know. Youve never sat next to me in a car, reserve judgement.
My flat mate had a tuned Evo 8 280 which was a nice car, however unless you were winding on the opposite lock coming off a round about at nearly double the speed limit it would be boring as f*ck. It didnt really feel that fast due to the very flat torque curve... but there was no doubt about how pacey it was though....but in the end he sold it in the due to it's lack of excitement and driver input...now he's got another tuned RX7.
Anyway, quad turbos look cool as f*ck :D
Ruddmeister
13-01-2006, 15:08
As for buying the cupra, I wasnt looking for a ibiza. Was orginally looking for a family car, Golf GTi was the first choice. Ibiza was a last minute thing.
I've never driven a Mk1 escort but my old MK2 Escort was an absolute hoot, although it wasn't quick it was fun to drive sideways in the wet.
I would suggest against a Golf GTI if your thinking Mk1V, the Leon is a better car (yes I have owned both).
Don't turn this thread into a personal battle boys.....Life is too short[B)]
Tallpaul
13-01-2006, 15:43
Jonzy i agree fella. The Evo definatly is the car of choice for the Gran Turismo generation. Me thinks a lot of people care almost as much about pub bragging as they do experiencing the drive.
How about a quad-turbo mk1 escort? Is that a compromise for you all?
thermalp4
13-01-2006, 16:27
Jonzy, who's Andy?
Dont wont to make it an arguement at all.
Its not so much of a grudge just a dislike for dangerous drivers especially in cars that are not desgined to driven like that.
I know quite a lot of people that talk the EVO up and have never even driven one. Then theres people who talk the EVO down and never driven one.
I just cant see how you compare the two cars.
AlphaMale
13-01-2006, 17:30
Lets not go and turn this into some sort of personal grudge, which it clearly is.... isnt it Andy?
Uhh? ... personal grudge? Just letting you know that an 86bhp car doesn't need AYC that's all. Yehh it was the days when tuning a car didn't mean throwing in a MOTEC ECU etc and you had to polish internals etc and Carbs but you sinple wouldn't be able to throw a 400+bhp Evo into a bend and come out the other side. Call it a playstaion if you want but the human will never be quick enough to get you out of trouble when the car goes sideways :think:
I was just stating that the evo's I have personally driven, along with a fair few imprezas, have left me feeling numb - quite frankly bored. I picked the mk1 as an simply because thats what I like. Its all well and good having all the hp in the world, and a computer that can make you look like a wrc driver. Does nothing for me.
Are you saying you could drive like Petter Solberg if you had an Evo/Scooby to make you look good? :confused:
Finally - I geniunly dont remeber hitting a wing mirror, PM me and let me know. Youve never sat next to me in a car, reserve judgement.
Yes, as thermalp4 said you drove past my sisters boyfriend and took his wing mirror with you. He said you were driving at high speed through a lane (I didn't ask much).
Alpha
if it helps the votes take a visit to ireland ;)
theres a few tarmac mk1/2 escorts that eat ex wrc cars for breakfast
if i ever had the cash it would be a well sorted mk2 for me over an evo any day and local dealer wont entertain a test drive to anyone under 30 - lucky im older then i guess lol
Evo 400 is a very capable machine and there are a few affordable ones going around now,unlock the ecu and near 500bhp with bags of torque is on the cards.Also decent brakes and your not stretching it too much like a 400bhp fq300 which is all a fq340 is.
AlphaMale
14-01-2006, 01:03
Just got in from work to see this thread going all over the shop.
My opinion in that a FQ340 IS all that! But Jonzy tend to believe they are not 'all that' :confused:
But hey he has driven it and he is entitled to his own opinion but I thought 0-60 in 4.12 seconds was pretty quick and I am used to bikes :D The 400 does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds with 405bhp.
But lets forget how long .6 of a second is cos in the real world tyre compound / driver / full tank of fuel etc will effect this. Take a look at Top Gear times by the stig.
1 Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
2 Maserati MC12 1.18.9
3 Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
4 Ariel Atom 1.19.5
5 Porsche Carerra GT 1.19.8
6 Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
7 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 1.20.9
8 Ford GT 1.21.9
9 Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
10 Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
11 Murcielago 1.23.7
12 Zonda 1.23.8
13 Koenigsegg 1.23.9
14 Sagaris 1.24.6
15 Tuscan 1.24.8
16 Evo FQ 400 1.24.8
17 Noble 1.25.0
18 Gallardo 1.25.8
19 Aero 8 GTN 1.25.9
20 BMW M5 1.26.2
21 Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
22 Ferrari 575 GTC 1.26.8
23 Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
24 Lotus Exige 1.26.9
25 Aston Martin Vanquish S 1.27.1
26 Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
27 Spyker C8 1.27.3
28 TVR 350C 1.27.5
29 Wiesmann 1.27.9
30 BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0
31 Dodge Viper SRT-10 1.28.5
32 MG SV 1.28.6
33 Mitsubishi Evo VIII 1.28.9
34 Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9
35 Mercedes CL65 1.29
36 BMW Alpina Z8 1.29.0
37 Impreza STi WRX WR1 1.29.4
38 Alfa 3.7 GTA 1.30.0
39 Subaru Impreza STI 1.30.1
40 Aston Martin DB7 GT 1.30.4
41 Audi S4 1.30.9
42 Porsche 911 turbo 1.31.0
43 Vauxhall VX 220 turbo 1.31.3
44 Honda NSX Type R 1.31.6
45 Mazda RX8 1.31.8
46 Nissan 350Z 1.31.8
47 BMW M3 1.31.8
48 Ford Focus RS 1.32.2
49 Lotus Esprit V8 1.32.5
50 Audi TT V6 1.32.7
51 E-Type 1.32.8
52 MG ZT 1.33
53 Noble 1.33.1
54 Volkswagen Golf R32 1.33.2
55 Mercedes SL 55 AMG 1.33.2
56 Cadillac CTS-V 1.33.3
57 Clio Cup 1.33.8
58 Holden Monaro 1.33.9
59 Ford Focus ST 1.34.9
60 Volvo S60R 1.35.0
61 Alfa 147 GTA 1.35.6
62 Lotus Elise 1.35.6
63 Renault Clio v6 1.36.2
64 Honda Civic Type R 1.36.5
65 Saab 95 hot aero 1.37.9
66 Mazzer 1.38.0
67 Bowler Wildcat 1.39.4
68 Bentley Arnarge 1.40.8
69 Overfinch 1.44.0
70 DB5 1.46.0
I am not going to pay £15k extra for 4 seconds around a track or .5 of a second 0-60mph.
Like I said there are people on the MLR who have had FQ400's and love it, but then a lot of people have tuned FQ340's that are faster due to a few mods. :funk:
Ryan S3 - Why is Simon Norris using 340's as a base model then? Yes the 340 might be a remapped 320 like the 210 S3 is compared to a 225 S3 But with a £15k saving I am sure RC developments / Norris Designs can do a 25G turbo conversion for you and I am sure that 440bhp @1.6 bar boost will be good fun :think: ... You could always have a 2.2 stroker kit if you are nuts :whistle:
Alpha
fq300 - standard
fq320 -hks exhaust and front pipe
fq340 hks exhaust ,front pipe and dastek unichip
start with a fq300 as the hks exhaust and unichip are not as good others that can be bought.
fq400,fully built engine,motec management,gt30.ok it can be built for cheaper but as a exercise it's very good.The torque has been detuned significantly to stop warranty claims,unlock it get remapped and i'm sure it would shoot up the top gear track times.
210 and 225 are identical ,no hardware diferences,0.1bar boost provides the xtra 15bhp.
Andy, its not all about the numbers. Its the experience and feedback that driving a car gives.
Take gran turismo, it gets boring once you car has a billion hp and can slaughter everything it comes up against, then you put the game down and try and find something else enjoyable.#
If it is about the numbers why consider buyer a elise, as you said some people would see it as a :gay: car, only has what.... 118hp... 0-60 in a shocking 6 secs and a disapointing top end of 125mph. A horse and cart compared to the SUPER EVO :lol: :lol:
ibizacupra
15-01-2006, 12:08
Twin Turbo's also a bit old hat
Owen Developments had this kit on their stand for an Evo
http://www.seatcupra.net/m0rk/quad.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/m0rk/quad1.jpg
Was'nt that engine a Vauxhall?
The card on it says 'Quad Turbo' Mitsubishi Evo
But you might be right!
(maybe they use XE engines in the FQ400 conversion;))
Twin Turbo's also a bit old hat
Owen Developments had this kit on their stand for an Evo
http://www.seatcupra.net/m0rk/quad.jpg
http://www.seatcupra.net/m0rk/quad1.jpg
I cant see those images. Have they been removed?
i think i culled them from the webspace, I think I still have them
ibizacupra
08-02-2006, 18:33
The card on it says 'Quad Turbo' Mitsubishi Evo
But you might be right!
(maybe they use XE engines in the FQ400 conversion;))
:hide: :doh: