View Full Version : LSD's , quaife etc .
cordobabrendy
14-08-2002, 18:02
probably the best person to answer is bill....again!! but how much would this upgrade cost to get and fit into my cordoba, reason is that im sick of trying to move off quickly or corner quickly the power seems to die until im off and moving.
cheers:cheers:
ibizacupra
14-08-2002, 18:38
Originally posted by cordobabrendy
probably the best person to answer is bill....again!! but how much would this upgrade cost to get and fit into my cordoba, reason is that im sick of trying to move off quickly or corner quickly the power seems to die until im off and moving.
cheers:cheers:
"The power seems to die until your off and moving" ?? What, like TCS taking the power away sort of thing?
The quaife ATB diff itself is around £549 last I heard, and would also want the bolt ring kit £98 on top. Fitting is a g'box in pieces job.
When I had my Jetta g'box done a few years ago, it cost me £1200, but that included repairing the thing and all new gears and synchros etc etc etc.... These would'nt be wanted for just a quiafe install.
I would recon on between £750 and £1000 approx for just a quiafe install into a regular g'box.
Fitting and removal from car would be on top of this I think.
I would give Autotechnik a call to see what they can coem up with. Thats who is doing mine. (and no I don't know the price for mine yet)
Regarding its benefit and feel in driving terms, it felt slightly heavy to turn at low speed, and traction out from junctions, (wheel turned on lock and accelerate from standing start), was a lot better... ie it gripped.
Standing start a la 1/4 mile did'nt really seem to help me... as I just smoked both front tyres off the line, instead of one! :p
On the real road and track though, the benefit was one of being able to keep the power on through corners where previously you would have spun up the inside wheel and understeered off. When powering round a corner, with a quiafe ATB diff, the car steers tighter than before, which takes a bit of getting used to. Keep on the throttle though and do not lift. If you do lift, the ATB then allows the car to understeer off again. Keep your foot in and hang on.
I have found it took me quite a while to get my head round this to maximise its grip. Where I "wanted" to lift, I had to keep on it and trust it would pull around the corner..... any lift would cause some big problems and a shed load of understeer (at higher speeds now also :o )
its a cracking bit of kit, BUT only works when BOTH front wheels are on the ground. Lift one and it spins up. It is not a plate dif which locks, this just feeds mechanically the power to the lower speed wheel.
regards
Bill
Autotechnic quoted me £1200 for the Quaife in an Ibiza (02J) gearbox.
One thing that i have heard is that without a Quaife understeer tends to be progressive or atleast 2 stage, ie. one wheel may break traction and you understeer a bit, but if you apply more power then the other wheel will break traction and you will end up going straight. With a Quaife you tend to get either both gripping or both spinning.... I it either goes around a corner or it goes straight without alot in between. This is only what I've been told and not from experience.... is this true Bill?
Bill, any idea who to talk to about getting a 4wd conversion made for an ibiza? :)
Ben
ibizacupra
14-08-2002, 22:17
Originally posted by BenS1
Autotechnic quoted me £1200 for the Quaife in an Ibiza (02J) gearbox.
One thing that i have heard is that without a Quaife understeer tends to be progressive or atleast 2 stage, ie. one wheel may break traction and you understeer a bit, but if you apply more power then the other wheel will break traction and you will end up going straight. With a Quaife you tend to get either both gripping or both spinning.... I it either goes around a corner or it goes straight without alot in between. This is only what I've been told and not from experience.... is this true Bill?
Bill, any idea who to talk to about getting a 4wd conversion made for an ibiza? :)
Ben
Erm...
"With a Quaife you tend to get either both gripping or both spinning.... I it either goes around a corner or it goes straight without alot in between. This is only what I've been told and not from experience.... is this true Bill?"
No :)
I would say thats a whole load of tosh in my experience. There's a nice piccy in Autotechnics waiting room/office of my Jetta in front of a Lancia Delta Integrale at a pi$$ing wet day at Castle Combe a few years ago.. Jetta in front having passed this and several other 4WD machines in the rain.. Traction was equal if not better than them and I had the quiafe... :D :D :D :D
As for 4WD I believe there's a company which makes something called Quattro or something..... :p S3 something or other.... :p made by some Kraut outfit called Howdi or summat :p
Easier to stick your beezer badges on that me thinks :D
Bill
Glad to hear that the Quaife works so well... so, what do i buy first, the Quaife, the new wheels, the Brembos, the Jabbasport conversion? Money, money, money!
ibizacupra
14-08-2002, 23:00
Originally posted by BenS1
Glad to hear that the Quaife works so well... so, what do i buy first, the Quaife, the new wheels, the Brembos, the Jabbasport conversion? Money, money, money!
1st you will need the buy the winning lottery ticket :p
the rest is easy after that bit - LOL
Bill
I have no money to do this but am wondering about the possible pitfalls.
EDL or whatever the thing is (do Ibizas have this?), do you have to turn this off. WTF does it do anyway? Is it purely electronic? Option in ECU to turn it off? Or just wont hamper the LSD?
traction control - ECU won't get confused?
ESP - is an LSD compatible with ESP? Will the LSD working confuse the ESP?
racelogic TC - will that work with cars with built-in TC? Do you have to disable the OEM TC?
LSD + racelogic TC is that a sensible option.
(this post almost warrants going in shite-u-write)
ibizacupra
16-08-2002, 12:38
Originally posted by DaveP
I have no money to do this but am wondering about the possible pitfalls.
EDL or whatever the thing is (do Ibizas have this?), do you have to turn this off. WTF does it do anyway? Is it purely electronic? Option in ECU to turn it off? Or just wont hamper the LSD?
traction control - ECU won't get confused?
ESP - is an LSD compatible with ESP? Will the LSD working confuse the ESP?
racelogic TC - will that work with cars with built-in TC? Do you have to disable the OEM TC?
LSD + racelogic TC is that a sensible option.
(this post almost warrants going in shite-u-write)
**LOL**
Is this pick any permutation from the above list of questions?
EDL is applying the ABS to the spinning wheel to force the power across the diff to the slower (gripping??) wheel. Shite system. Only works at low speeds.
TC should'nt get involved too much as the power will just get applied to the ground by the diff.-You can always switch it off like I do anyway to stop it taking the throttle away.
ESP not on Ibiza. It will still work as ESP works with ABS channels and throttle control. It monitors all the wheel speeds, steering angle and yaw anyway.
Racelogic + TC can be done, but I know not the details. It will utilise the existing ABS sensors and intercept the ignition control to hold rpms for programmed given % wheel slip.
LSD + Racelogic... Yep works to, but more for Launch Control than for traction. Diff does the traction bit.
The LSD will onyl proportion the given power for the given grip on the driven wheels. Too much power and or not enough grip and you will still smoke/light up/spin the driven wheels. - You just do that evenly.
2 even black lines on the road as opposed to one :p
Now I am going for a lie down... Phew.
(confused you I expect.. sorry)
regards
Bill
All makes sense bill. EDL what a bodge! No wonder people mention grinding noises when it is active.
Is the focus RS the only FWD car to come as standard with an LSD?
I know EDL sounds like a ruler being pinged on the edge of a table, and now that you say that it uses ABS on the spinning wheel that all makes sense.... but it doesn't work though.... its pure crap!
LSD and Racelogic is meant to be the perfect combination... the LSD ontrols all the available traction but if you break traction then the Racelogic gently brings it back again. Good for traffic light grand prix's. :) (Not good for clutches!)
Ben