View Full Version : Bilstein Shock Help/Poll
The OE Monroe shocks only my TDI 150 pretty much suck:sick:
They where changed under warranty last month (initial pr did 62000KM).
I want to change them to Bilsteins some next month. My 1st though was to upgrade to the Bilstein Sport shocks (not lowering the car).
Aftering asking around at a few tuning shops, I'm even more confused:confused: :confused:.
I got contradictory opinions from a couple of palces.:confused:
1st what I'm looking for:
Beter compression and rebound damping, without a super harsh ride. I don't want to lower the car either. I don't do track days, I do mostly highway (130-150km/h...300km/day commute to work).
The options I was given where (most to least given):
1- Go for the Bilstein Sport, they cost a bundle but they're firmer than stock (10-15% but not harsh) and will probably last the car's lifetime (or close to it).
2- Go for the Bilstein B4 (Black OE replacement) which is a bit firmer than the OE but much better with the compression/rebound damping. They'll last you quite a while and won't break the bank 'cus they're 500 euro cheaper than the Sports
3- One of the shops told me to go with Boge shocks 'cus they're just as good as the Bilstein OE replacements and are even cheaper!
I have no experience with the Bilstein stuff, have used the KONI sports on my old beeza. They where good, but I looking for something else on the Toledo.
Thanx For your help,
mark sheerin
11-09-2002, 20:40
I'm trying to get Bilsteins for my Cupra 20vt.
My previous Mercs had Bilsteins and their compromise between comfort and ability was untouchable..and before you say maybe the Mercs had a good chassis..well they do but I once swapped the Bilsteins for some other gas shocks and the ride became awful and the harder shocks lost me some rear end grip.
If I can get Bilsteins for my Cupra then I will..have you sourced any yet? and at what price.
I think I'll go for the B4 by what you have said.
Originally posted by mark sheerin
I'm trying to get Bilsteins for my Cupra 20vt.
My previous Mercs had Bilsteins and their compromise between comfort and ability was untouchable..and before you say maybe the Mercs had a good chassis..well they do but I once swapped the Bilsteins for some other gas shocks and the ride became awful and the harder shocks lost me some rear end grip.
If I can get Bilsteins for my Cupra then I will..have you sourced any yet? and at what price.
I think I'll go for the B4 by what you have said.
I still own a BMW 325i ('88 model US model) with OE Bilsteins (the shocks are of an off white color: not yellow or black) and agree that they where an excellent compromise. As I mentioned I don't have experience with the Bilstein stuff, but from the options I was given, I leaning towards the B4s myself. If the Sports where to in fact not have such a harsh ride, I might in fact lose my mind, probably wait (read: save up some more cash) and go for them.
I do 80000km (approx 50000miles) a year so I am looking for some quality stuff, which need not be replaced yearly. Plus it shouldn't break the bank or my back ;).
The road are a bit rough hear, to give you an idea the OE shocks on the Golf III where shot after 35000km and the one on my '98 beeza died after 50000km:mad: .
I had the beeza outfitted with eibach springs and koni sport shocks afterwards (the eibach spring where taken off after 2 months). The beeza with koni sports/OE springs was good, but I don't want the toledo as harsh (OHH MY GOD I BECOMING AN OLD FART:( )!
Sourced yes! Price in Portugal:
B6 Sports 750 euros
B4 280 euros
I might try to get them online for cheaper (if I can find any on the net).
mark sheerin
13-09-2002, 15:37
Thanks Paulo!:)
I need U guy's honest opinion!!
Up to now I've got 6 votes & a tie between the sports & b4
Keep us posted on what you decide to go for.
I'm interested in some new shocks, (not for a while though - 12,500 miles so far). I would like to lower the car slightly as I don' want to leave the sump on a speed bump somewhere.
:D
Hi,
I have a Leon Sport TDI 110 and want to change the shocks & springs; it's the only black spot I found in the car since I bought them: they were a little too "soft".
Now they are even worse, and as you, I plan to change them. Again, as you, I *don't* want to loower the car, it's already too low for my taste/roads!
I live in spain and located a Bilstein dealer in Andorra (cheap!). They quoted me about 420EUR for them, but didn't specify which model!
What are the B4? What does OE (Original Equipment?) means? must I assume that the B4 are better quality Bilstein's replacements for the specific car model?
mark sheerin
19-09-2002, 06:29
thats correct amigo.:)
Originally posted by pukkita
Hi,
I have a Leon Sport TDI 110 and want to change the shocks & springs; it's the only black spot I found in the car since I bought them: they were a little too "soft".
Now they are even worse, and as you, I plan to change them. Again, as you, I *don't* want to loower the car, it's already too low for my taste/roads!
I live in spain and located a Bilstein dealer in Andorra (cheap!). They quoted me about 420EUR for them, but didn't specify which model!
What are the B4? What does OE (Original Equipment?) means? must I assume that the B4 are better quality Bilstein's replacements for the specific car model?
As you might know the road in Portugal are terrible as well "probably the worst in Europe", that is why I don't want to lower the car. The shocks are definitely the only thing bad about my car!
The B4 are original Equipment replacement as you correctly mention. My mechanic (loacal Seat dealer) has replaced a couple of cars, including 2 BMWs with the B4 and says they are much better than the original Monroe shocks! Better compression and rebound than stock + they seem to last longer. The B4 are twin tube designed gas shocks (not like the mono tube shocks Bilstein is famous for). Link in english (US site since Europe site only in German):
http://www.bilstein.com/products/econotc.html
I know the B6 sports are better, but they are 10-15% stiffer. I'm not sure if the 10-15% will make the ride to harsh! The price doesn't help either.
prc: yeah! Portugal roads are a suspension nightmare!
So, the B4 are on cheaper side of Bilsteins...
I know now the specific model I was offered (390€, sum up 20% if you want the seller to mount them) and they aren't B4, but instead (I guess) the better, monotube ones.
Front: VE3-4407
Rear: BE3-2623
Their "setting" is HD or heavy duty.
Maybe you'll like them as a in-between quality model...
Are you gonna leave the stock springs?
Originally posted by pukkita
prc: yeah! Portugal roads are a suspension nightmare!
So, the B4 are on cheaper side of Bilsteins...
I know now the specific model I was offered (390€, sum up 20% if you want the seller to mount them) and they aren't B4, but instead (I guess) the better, monotube ones.
Front: VE3-4407
Rear: BE3-2623
Their "setting" is HD or heavy duty.
Maybe you'll like them as a in-between quality model...
Are you gonna leave the stock springs?
And the winner is.....
A friend of mine just picked me up a set F/R same as model you mention from Andorra (400 Euros). Checked in the Bilstein catalog and the references you mention are listed under the B6 sport catalog.
I am definitely leaving the stock springs, anything else and the car will be to close to the ground.
Anything must be better than the originals. I just came up from Algarve, via the twisty old mountain roads. Man does the OE suspension suck!!:sick:
Let us know how the feel once you have them installed!
I finally got the shocks in!
Front: VE3-4407
Rear: BE3-2623
Couldn't really test it today (raining cats & dogs) but here gos my initial impression:
Took a couple of mountain roads to work, to see it's effect on overall comfort. It's a bit stiffer than OE, I'd say about 15-20%. Not noticeable on smooth country roads, except on slightly raised man hole covers (the thump). You definitely feel the difference on rough roads, it is not as forgiving as the the OE Monroe shocks.
Didn't really get on the brakes yet, but they do feel different. This might be due to less weight being transfered to the front of the car during braking.
Did two well known off ramps at speed to test the compresion damping. With the OE the underside would definitely scrape at speeds over 100km/hr, with the Bilsteins I had complete control, no scraping and no harshness.
I have not tested cornering yet, full test to come this weekend (if it doesn't rain of course).
If you don't want to read much:
Overall rating = 85% Why not 100%?? Well the suspension still needs some work. Next upgrade = anti-roll bars.
Weekend reading:
I've been driving as many different types of road as possible the last 2 weeks. The suspension is a good 15% stiffer than the OE shocks. The compression and rebound settings are much better than OE. I've done a few off-ramps at normal speed to normal speed + 60km/hr without having the car bottom out.
Road control during cornering is up a good 15-20% (still feel this part should be better). The boat effect is longer there, but the car still has a bit to much understeer.
Under braking the car does not nose dive as much as before, shortening brake distances (this is a feeling, have not actually real figures to back this up yet).
To make a long story short, it's well worth the money. Next upgrade will be a set of Eibach or Neuspeed anti-roll bars.
Thanks to let us know how did they perform... those shocks will be the first upgrade!
Could you please ellaborate on why you feel the antiroll bars will be an enhancement to those?
You kept stock springs, do you feel is a fine combination the Bilstein's and the OE springs?
You kept stock springs, do you feel is a fine combination the Bilstein's and the OE springs?
Yes, don't forget that the OE Springs already have a very high rate, because of the weight of the engine. There's a couple of threads that mention that the OE springs (on the TDI) have a higher rate than the 1.8T. Besides it is impossible for me to lower the car.
Could you please ellaborate on why you feel the antiroll bars will be an enhancement to those?
The anti-roll bars will control the body's tendency to roll a bit more. It is not to bad stock but, when you really push the car in hard cornering, the front end lets loose a bit easier than it should (understeer). Increasing the anti-roll bar diameter will keep the car leveled a bit longer, producing a more neutral feel.
Found some info on suspension tuning hear:
http://www.autotech.com/susptung.htm