View Full Version : RSD 240 conversion.........shall I?????
chungster
16-10-2001, 18:39
Over at RSD today to have a change of pads....and boy were those Greenstuffs buggered from Saturday! BUT...not as much as the Tarox ones off the demo....that had literally 1mm of pad left!
Anyway........was talking to them about the 240 conversion....it can be done..........so i was thinking of maybe, just maybe.......
HOWEVER, it will only be offered to the right customer who understands the potential pit falls of having soo much power thru the front wheels...(ME!!!).......I'm sure they'll fit it to mine if i wanted it..but its still a lot of money.
You never know......
Better news is that those Tarox 6 Pots will fit inside my 17's after all! Will be tested in December when my PSS9's get fitted.
Only if you have totally lost your mind.
Jim @ Star Performance had similar power & claimed it to be dangerous.
& I'm guessing he would be a more experienced *stupid power* driver.....
so - i would keep with the 200 odd & keep some resale value (assuming you still are)
M:devil:
chungster
16-10-2001, 21:18
I actually heard Jim Curley never got the 235/240bhp AmD conversion going...and so he just got rid of it and went back to the tried and tested 195-210bhp set up.
I dunno....i might let RSD do it on mine just to see what it does!
It can always revert to the 210 set up....which i quite like really. Its spot on to be honest.
ibizacupra
16-10-2001, 21:25
Originally posted by chungster
Over at RSD today to have a change of pads....and boy were those Greenstuffs buggered from Saturday! BUT...not as much as the Tarox ones off the demo....that had literally 1mm of pad left!
Anyway........was talking to them about the 240 conversion....it can be done..........so i was thinking of maybe, just maybe.......
HOWEVER, it will only be offered to the right customer who understands the potential pit falls of having soo much power thru the front wheels...(ME!!!).......I'm sure they'll fit it to mine if i wanted it..but its still a lot of money.
You never know......
Better news is that those Tarox 6 Pots will fit inside my 17's after all! Will be tested in December when my PSS9's get fitted.
Don't take this the wrong way Lee, but can you drive... I mean really drive. The 240 could be a handfull. The 210 as is, causes other chassis and braking inbalance when pushed, and other than a race track could you actually get to use it?
Don't get me wrong, I would have one tomorrow, and would want more than just 240bhp from a K04, but in the Ibiza, as a road car, it would really need other work done to it to keep it a sensible package.
Just like 210's on stock suspension really don't make the most of the conversion. If you can't use it fully or if you do and it bites........... it all gets a bit messy.
Would RSD do this one for you? They seemed reluctant when we spoke.
The 210 Ibiza is quicker than the 240 Golf, with the right suspension (on both of them)
I would like to try one first personally...
How much would it cost then?
Bill
chungster
16-10-2001, 22:12
Whats your email address Bill???
Did Danny boy refuse your request of the 240 conversion then???
He refused one today from someone too apparently.
ibizacupra
16-10-2001, 22:26
Originally posted by chungster
Whats your email address Bill???
Did Danny boy refuse your request of the 240 conversion then???
He refused one today from someone too apparently.
No he did'nt refuse me... but he did say he refuse Joe Public as it is likely to be a step beyond.
I would like to try personally funds depending.
email is bill@badger5.co.uk
I would like more than 270bhp really, and the TT boys have got this from their MTM and AmD mods.
It would be a real handfull though in front wheel drive especially in the wet... Would the g'box stand it? who knows.
Bill
:devil:
if it's TUV approved the Torque can't exceed that of the weekest component.
So - it should stand up if it's a TUV approved product.
but i think that 240 in a Leon would be better due to the fact that it handles.
M
ibizacupra
17-10-2001, 08:31
Originally posted by mphelps
if it's TUV approved the Torque can't exceed that of the weekest component.
So - it should stand up if it's a TUV approved product.
but i think that 240 in a Leon would be better due to the fact that it handles.
M
Not sure if it is TUV approved for an Ibiza. Can't imagine many differences in FWD transmissions across the VAG range in 20VT cars, so I would hope you're right.
Cable change boxes are much stronger. I have broken my 020 rod change box in the Jetta several times, 2nd gear twice (no teeth left). diff bearings 4 times.
It would be a "lively" package in such a small car. :)
Ever so tempting......
Bill
I remember Danny mentioning to me, that though he'd do the 240bhp conversion in the Ibiza, as you've said for people who really can handle it.
He'd have less quarms about doing the same conversion to the Leon, as it handles the power delivery better, mainly cause its wider and heavier i suppose.
Maybe, but at the moment 210 is enough for me :)
I'm not trying to be arguementative but why do people keep saying that the 210 Ibiza is near the limit? Yes, it very fast but it doesn't feel like its near the limit to me! I don't think an extra 30bhp will suddenly make it totally dangerous... providing you don't go around roundabouts in 2nd with your foot on the floor!
In fact I feel much safer pushing the Ibiza 210 than I did pushing the standard Pug 205 1.9GTi!
I doubt you would gain much from a 240bhp+ conversion in 1st or 2nd as the 210 conversion already takes you beyond the traction that the tyres can provide, but in 3rd gear up it should give you much more acceleration.
Before I got my 210 Ibiza everyone was warning me about the Torque steer and saying that you have to be careful or it can steer you right off the road.... what torque steer? I've hardly noticed any at all.... the 205 had much much much more torque steer.... so did the 306!
Just my opinion.
Ben
ibizacupra
17-10-2001, 14:29
Originally posted by BenS1
I'm not trying to be arguementative but why do people keep saying that the 210 Ibiza is near the limit? Yes, it very fast but it doesn't feel like its near the limit to me! I don't think an extra 30bhp will suddenly make it totally dangerous... providing you don't go around roundabouts in 2nd with your foot on the floor!
In fact I feel much safer pushing the Ibiza 210 than I did pushing the standard Pug 205 1.9GTi!
I doubt you would gain much from a 240bhp+ conversion in 1st or 2nd as the 210 conversion already takes you beyond the traction that the tyres can provide, but in 3rd gear up it should give you much more acceleration.
Before I got my 210 Ibiza everyone was warning me about the Torque steer and saying that you have to be careful or it can steer you right off the road.... what torque steer? I've hardly noticed any at all.... the 205 had much much much more torque steer.... so did the 306!
Just my opinion.
Ben
Have you opened your up through the lanes yet?
The motor is still going to be tight with the low miles on it.
240 in a stock suspensioned beezer is a recipe for disaster. You are in the better position of having the PSS9's fitted, which makes it a whole better place to which bolt more power to.
I agree 240 should'nt be excessive.. I would want more personally, but then again I always do. :)
My wife on the other hand dare'nt put her foot down as it already accelerates away from her :) I've not known her drive so slowly in it. Not everyone could handle the power and from a suppliers point of view, they may want to stay away from any prospective liabilities in the event of an accident. Cater for the lowest common denominator more or less I guess.
I get torque steer in mine in 2nd/3rd gears on the very poor roads in Glos. You do have to hold on....undulations to pull it about under full power. (same suspension, same geometry at the moment)
How much would it cost to go 240 K04 then?
Anyone know this?
Bill
Petrolhead Paul
17-10-2001, 14:44
Ben, I haven't noticed any torque steer yet but I'm still driving like a girl and rarely exceeding 4000rpm. I'm sure when its run in and I drive it a bit harder it won't be such a pussycat :)
But you've done more miles - what are you revving it up to now?
Do the PSS9s help tame any torque steer? (Bill needs to answer this from a before and after perspective)
Scoobster
17-10-2001, 15:00
Torque Steer till the cows come home..
Get on a slightly uneven surface, pull out of a junction and let fly with the beast....!!!
I have done 3500 miles so I can.. :p but there is quite a lot of torque steer from the car.
I only have a standard Cupra and mine is really jittery on country lanes when accelerating hard in low gears and in the wet it is piss funny. Do not try and drive it fast with one hand on the wheel if the road surface isn't perfectly even, you will be taking a trip to 'hedgeland'... lol
I wouldn't like to think what a 210 or 240 would be like if you didn't put new suspension and wider tyres on, would be like trying to drive on ice if you hammered your foot to the floor and let the revs rise without short shifting.
Just a question... What will resale be like of 210 modded cars? Will a dealer take them or will they be reluctant due to the difficulty in passing them on? My car is still standard (apart from the impending change of brake pads), and am still in two minds about upgrading due to cost/benefit analysis and if it will screw the price down when I sell it? I really would like somewhere between the standard 156 and 210 actually without such a high price and the need for so many other additions.
180bp would be nice if it could be done just by a remap of the chip so nothing was really changed (as the 'R' has been).
Let me know what you think.. ??
Torque Steer is great, I love, the feel of wheel trying to rip itself from your grip, all part of the fun. Turn the traction control off though, it then dissapears.
Get some proper traction control like the racelogic and it soon goes away
Petrolhead Paul
17-10-2001, 16:20
Originally posted by Scoobster
Let me know what you think.. ?? [/B]
It won't screw the price down, you should get slightly more for it if you've used quality bits (and you are selling to an "enthusiast"), but you won't get back all the extra money spent on it. This is the same for ANY modified car, but once you've driven a sorted one the temptation is too great.
I keep promising to leave the next car I buy standard, but once you've driven a 210 demo the old "I HAVE to have one of them" fever takes over.
ibizacupra
17-10-2001, 16:48
Originally posted by Petrolhead Paul
Ben, I haven't noticed any torque steer yet but I'm still driving like a girl and rarely exceeding 4000rpm. I'm sure when its run in and I drive it a bit harder it won't be such a pussycat :)
But you've done more miles - what are you revving it up to now?
Do the PSS9s help tame any torque steer? (Bill needs to answer this from a before and after perspective)
To try to answer this and Scoobsters comments.... the torque steer is less with the PSS9's and the handling under acceleration is greatly improved.
On undulating roads and accelerating hard you still need both hands on the wheel. Hedges would have a magnetic attraction otherwise!
Bilsteins definately make the bumpy cross country less "choppy" as per the std suspension and more confidence inspiring, where you can actually push and use the power available. worth sorting the suspension definately.
Bill
ibizacupra
17-10-2001, 16:49
Originally posted by gtevo
Get some proper traction control like the racelogic and it soon goes away
You still get the torque steer without loosing traction..
Crude TCS as the factory system is.
Bill
i was just commenting on exactly that which is why i uprated mine
ibizacupra
17-10-2001, 21:35
Originally posted by gtevo
i was just commenting on exactly that which is why i uprated mine
What did you uprate then.... to Racelogic?
You saying that its eliminated torque steer?
Bill
:)
chungster
17-10-2001, 22:22
Thats right Bill...Dave has a Racelogic Traction and Launch control system fitted.....a similar system to Gary Handa's MRK IV GOLF TT i suspect.
Does the launch control system help the 0-60 time much?
What spec is the car and what 0-60 times is he getting?
How much is the Racelogic Traction Control system?
Paul... done 1600 miles now and so I'm using more of the rev range now... not red lining but into the 5000s.
'Raced' a sporty red Honda thing last night... might of been an Integra. Sporty looking with a big wing on the back and an exhaust that you could fit your leg in. Anyway, we both exited a roundabout and both floored it.... I'm happy to say that I was out accelerating him quite convincingly! :) He was definately trying too!
BTW Scoobster, I am still running my 210 with standard wheels and tyres and yes its very slippery in the wet.... but I drive like a granny in the wet.
Is there much difference in performance between TCS on and off? So far I have kept TCS ON all the time... just until I know the car a little better.
Ben
Dave's TCS was a bit crap with the launch control initially, but now we've played with it it is much better.
In the wet it is unbelievably good for just planting it.
not at all cheap, but will make your car faster to drive.
IMHO
I'm sure Lee will add his 2 penneth as to professional racing drivers & stuff. but that just gets plain boring.
M
Originally posted by BenS1
Does the launch control system help the 0-60 time much?
What spec is the car and what 0-60 times is he getting?
How much is the Racelogic Traction Control system?
Paul... done 1600 miles now and so I'm using more of the rev range now... not red lining but into the 5000s.
'Raced' a sporty red Honda thing last night... might of been an Integra. Sporty looking with a big wing on the back and an exhaust that you could fit your leg in. Anyway, we both exited a roundabout and both floored it.... I'm happy to say that I was out accelerating him quite convincingly! :) He was definately trying too!
BTW Scoobster, I am still running my 210 with standard wheels and tyres and yes its very slippery in the wet.... but I drive like a granny in the wet.
Is there much difference in performance between TCS on and off? So far I have kept TCS ON all the time... just until I know the car a little better.
Ben
ibizacupra
18-10-2001, 08:21
Originally posted by chungster
Thats right Bill...Dave has a Racelogic Traction and Launch control system fitted.....a similar system to Gary Handa's MRK IV GOLF TT i suspect.
I remember doing a bash at Bruntingthorpe, where one of the cars was a MK3 VR6 with a Supercharger...270bhp or so. Off the line on that day it was crap as he could'nt get any traction. He had traction control fitted but not configured, hence not switched on for that day.
Saw the same car at Gti International down the 1/4 mile, and the 0-60 was absolutely transformed. Bruntingthorpe he ran high 7's as I remember or maybe even low eights... (memory fading) but at International it ran a high 4s 0-60. His traction/launch control certainly worked on that day !
WOW.
they can work....
On track, I hate most driver aids like this as they generally don't do as well in those conditions. On the slippery public roads, they can only be a good thing (so long as there is an off button :) )
regards
Bill
Scoobster
18-10-2001, 13:26
Ben:
In answer to your question about the TCS. I would NOT suggest turning it off in the wet even in a standard cupra. Without the TCS on even in the dry my std cupra squeals like a pig as the fairly wide rubber tries to enearth the tarmac and throw it at the cars behind me.
I know my car fairly well now and I know the roads around here very well (lived here 24 years), and I have tried briefly to drive without the TCS on in the wet, it was a 'new underwear' moment let me say that. The throttle response is not good enough for you to feather it gently around bends and the viscious turbo kick at such low revs causes it to be very unstable out of corners.
I find that in the wet and with TCS on, the car is pretty funny to drive. You can feel it wanting to go sideways and you have to stay well off the accelerator until you have got at least 3/4 round a bend before thinking of opening up or it will understeer and dive straight into the hedge/tree/house/whateveris off the road. I have found that with the TCS on though once you can accelerate you can mash your foot to the floor and just let the car sort itself out. It makes up its own mind if it wants to go or not and once you have it on a reasonable course it lets fly and oh does it let fly, be very prepared to grip the wheel tight and snap through the gears before you bounce off the rev limiter. I drive pretty sedately most of the time and especially in the wet as I value my life, car and NCB. My car is far less 'snappy' than it was when I first got it and after about 1000 miles. Maybe it is just settling down, I don't know if it is getting slower (dv leaking?) or if it is just less aggressive but still as quick (smoother running). either way it still upsets lots of people, it is also good for racing people you know you can't beat. I hung onto the back of a Boxster a few days ago while overtaking a stream of traffic, you should have seen the guyz face when he looked behind to see me still sat on his bumper end after oging past 8 cars and doing 110. It put a grin on both our faces and so we backed off having enjoyed the quick blast of adrenaline. That is how I pretty much drive my car. Gentle mostly with the odd dash of pace usually just to please myself or to say 'Bye Bye' to the knob in the Corsa or Punto sport that is trying to stick to my boot..!! lmao.
I really want a bit more bhp, but I am not sure about the full RSD 210. Is it possible to just get a remap to the existing turbo that will push it to about 180bhp? (as in the 'R')...???
The superchip boosts to 180bhp. I dont know of anyone who has tried this though - so I cant tell you what its like.
Mike :D
I use superchip for about a year now.
I am very satisfied with my car, the torque is incredible and actually my car is faster than two other ibizas I have race with, that have the MTM chip. It is also faster than normal Audi S3 (with no chip).
If you need any more details, please ask.:)
Steve3961
18-10-2001, 18:13
So is the standard suspension that bad? is it just when you "210" them? Can you get away with just changing the springs?
rriveroll
23-10-2001, 18:33
Hi, all
I recently put up an article on a K04 Ibiza. i hear from this article that its too much this or that. I have to disagree, I have one. Its just a little more powerfull.
I do recomend you upgrade the suspension and brakes though. All of you out there that think its too much, nahhh. Its only about 20% more power than a well chipped one and if you dont push it you wont even know the extra power is there. but when you do, there are few cars on the road that can go that fast.
Appart from a little push in the front end (understeer) I think the Ibiza is pretty safe with the extra power, as long as you changed suspension and brakes.