View Full Version : Driven 100
OVNIYELLOW
16-10-2001, 21:24
The tw*ts on ch 4's Driven have just voted the Leon Cupra the worst car in an overall test with the Skoda RS and some shitty rover!!!
They never mentioned that the rover is a lot dearer or the fact that the leon is better specced than the other 2 cars.
The Leon was the slowest and handled the worst!
It was however the cheapest car to run.
Apparantly it has 'lumpy' steering, poor visibility and a bigger turning circle :(
Also never mentioned anything about practicality, ie the Leon is a hatch and the other two are saloons.
They were even praising the lovely responsive engine and gearbox in the Skoda.......It's the same one in the Leon for f*cks
sake!!!
I just wish they would have had a golf GTI, or even a focus zetec competing aswell, the Leon wouldn't come last then!!
One good thing though, in the desirability test all the bitches loved it!! (no offence intended to any female members of the group!) ;)
I'm sure if they had done a proper test with proper drivers and took into consideration every aspect of the cars, the Leon would not be last!
:sick: Ferking Rover!!
they'll never make it as olympic judges :devil:
lets see
skoda 2 peeps , rover 5 peeps , SEAT 5 peeps (totty :p )
but because lanky twat PLATO dont like it they score
15 / 15 / 16 ??????? WTF :repuke:
Did I post my rant in the wrong place?
Sorry if you have already read it !
PS: I think they did the review in reverse gear - ie. started with a final score and worked backwards ... :cheers: ... But I'm not bitter.
'What the F**K is going on in the world.
The country is at war, terrorists are threatening chemical warfare, the world economy is going pear shaped and to top it all 'Driven' do not like (HATE !!!) my leon.
OK, its not all bad. We all know they only wanted the british marque car to win, and we all root for the underdog like Skoda but come on !!!
Some crap parts of the 'review'
-asking people if they liked the colour didn't seem relevant!
-looks a girly car?
-someone said it looked basic inside which is a bit harsh! - what does it lack?
What do you think?
May think of more later after a drink !!! (Kidding - but a drink sounds nice...) '
Steven.
:cool:
someone said it looked basic inside which is a bit harsh
Totaly agree mate, the girl gets into go for 2 secs, gets asked a question, -answer "a bit basic", i think if she had more time she wound have noticed how well equiped the leon is!
One good thing though, in the desirability test all the bitches loved it!! (no offence intended to any female members of the group!)
if the leon is liked by women fine by me!:)
dave
If anyone wants to vent some anger over the apalling driven show tonight then you can e-mail the editor of the 4car website and the driven team at
editor@4car.co.uk
Thick tw*ts !
How the f*ck can a skoda Octavia be as desirable as a Leon..
Both scored 15, and the ugly rover thing scored 16. And as for the Skoda scoring 19 for practicality because its turning circle was
less, whats that all about.....
Come back Top Gear !!!!!!
just sent , clik clik clik i love technology , shame the presenters couldnt see it in the car or the BROCHURE ???
yo 4car , we aint all miffed just shocked as your opinion seems to be mmmm against the grain shall we say :rolleyes:
see other posts too , then type SKODA in a serch engine under forum eh ???
http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/otn/animals/shakin.gifhttp://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/otn/animals/shakin.gifhttp://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/otn/animals/shakin.gif
"They never mentioned that the rover is a lot dearer or the fact that the leon is better specced than the other 2 cars."
In Hatchback form the Rover is only £500 more.
"Also never mentioned anything about practicality, ie the Leon is a hatch and the other two are saloons."
The octavia is a Hatch, and the Rover is avaialable with a hatch.
Also, the gearbox on the skoda is different, its a 5 speed, and if like the 5 speed on my Leon TDi, its alot smoother than the 6 speed:( Sorry guys, just stating a few facts so dont :devil: me
Neil
ibizacupra
17-10-2001, 08:26
Originally posted by TDi 110
The octavia is a Hatch, and the Rover is avaialable with a hatch.
Neil
Octavia a Hatch?
Is it? Always thought it was a saloon... Not looked closely though.
Is there a kind of Toledo thing about it then, looking like a saloon but being hatch.
Bill
Yeah, spose its supposed to be liked by exceutive drivers. They have monstrous boot space.
Neil
Further to my rant in the Cupra Reviews forum..
The Octavia RS is a really good car and in some respects is better than the Leon Cupra, equipment is better 17 inch alloys that look alot nicer than the 16 inch on the Cupra, part Leather seats as standard, massive boot etc etc, So really some of the posts in here are as biased as those in Driven, and as ignorant.
There is differences between the RS, Cupra and the MG. But as an overall view to buy either the RS or the Cupra comes down to personal peference.
How many of you have driven a RS??
I have driven both and I prefer the Leon, ONLY Just though it is a very close thing!! and I might be test driving both again to make a final choice..
Seat and Skoda owners should be happy that they have 'better' car than the VW product, for less money...
cheers
Dazz
:cheers:
I'm glad someone else is backing me up here, was begining to think I was doing wrong:o
Neil
Leon TDi (not Ocatvia TDi or 45 TD):D
I think the driven team have basically chosen a number of tests that were always going to suit the other marques. The Leon is not a thrashtastic tarmac warrior with hard ride and fidgety feeling over bumps. What they didn't do was test ride quality, I think the Leon would have won hands down in that test. It is a happy medium between 'hot hatch' road holding and refinement, and hence will always lose out on a handling test because road holding and traction always suffer when you try to give a car a smooth ride.
Being lucky enough to race cars, I know from hours of track time at Snetterton (where the tests were done) that that track is as smooth as a babys bum. What would have been more realistic would be to test the cars on a closed stretch of public road, because let's face it, 90% of UK road surfaces are shite, and the Leons better ride would have shone through. Believe me, the MG and the Skoda would get on your tits pretty quickly on a long motorway journey, due to their hard ride.
Another point to be considered is that Plato is a touring car driver, and he will always prefer a car that has similar characteristics to a racer, ie stiff rear end, hard ride, and readily available lift off over steer. Had they put your average man/woman off the street onto the track, I guarentee that they would all have sided with the Leon, simply because if you don't know what you're doing with cars prone to oversteer it's likely to scare the shite out of you. It's also very easy to 'show off' a cars desire to oversteer on a track, because you've got so much width to play with. If you were to try some of the things plato was doing on a B road, you're likely to clip the opposite bank or connect with some granny in her nissan micra...
I think the review in Car Magazine summed up the Cupra. It said that it had some of the Skodas fun, some of the Audis refinement, and with a bit of the Golf thrown in too, they also said it was the most complete package. These tests incidentally, were done on the public road.
What should be remembered is that the different manufacturers have tried to do different things and appeal to different sectors of the public. The Leon is a fast, comfortable well equipped cruiser, with enough sporting ability to be fun if the mood takes you. The MG and the Skoda are balls out sports saloons that are a great at what they are designed to do....but personally I'd take that bit of extra comfort and equipment at the sacrifice of a bit of sporting ability anyday.
Phew!!!
Biff
Cupramax
17-10-2001, 23:43
Lee,
Driven or should I say "drivel" is b*ll*cks.
You wont be disappointed with a Leon. Spot on motor...
Nuff said
:sick: Rover
:sick: Skoda
:devil: LEON:cheers: :cool: :D ;) :p
Lee
You say it's a good reason not to drive a Subaru because of the cars popularity with certain people in the UK. What is wrong with a car being popular with, "loads of ethnic minority people"? Got a problem with ethnic groups have we? I'd rather hoped that kind of talk would be alien (pardon the pun) to this Newsgroup.
May I also add:
"Stupid insurance" - my 245 BHP, 0-60 in 5 secs Subaru Impreza Turbo 4dr costs me £6.00 per month more in insurance than my new Leon Cupra will.
"taccy plastic interior" - may be plastic, but it doesn't sqeak, creak or rattle after 52,000 miles and has standard seats rated by Evo and Autocar magazines as the most supportive and comfortable in any current road car - it also looks as good now as it did when I first bought it.
You've got me on the last one though... "stupid petrol bill" - although 22mpg overall (average obtained in 3 Impreza Turbos over the last 7.5 years and 152,000 miles) isn't too bad for cars that will stay with a current 911 in the dry, murder it in the wet and give a severe case of the willies to Fireblade riders on bumpy, twisty A and B roads...
As for residual values - if the Leon ever comes near the Impreza for long or short term residuals (even though they've dropped sharply of late), I will be delighted. Dream on though - can't see a Seat making 50% of it's original cost after 3 years 7 months, with almost double the average mileage at trade in time, particularly against another make.
Ah, now you're asking if it's so good, why am I buying a Leon? I'm asking myself the same question now, especially as I've never come across a Subaru driver that makes racist comments...
I hope others in here agree with my sentiments. I hope anyone who has an ethnic background, realises that Lee does not represent the majority in this NG.
Originally posted by Toonman
Lee
You say it's a good reason not to drive a Subaru because of the cars popularity with certain people in the UK.
Did I miss something here ? Or was the original post removed? :confused:
StevoWarby
18-10-2001, 09:35
Either the AutoExpress or AutoCar review (Can't remember which now), said the Leon should keep 45% of it's orginial value after 3 years.....
I must've missed this post by Lee too... ;)
Stevo.
Thankfully, someone had the sense to remove Lee's Post.
Stevo
I read that too - Autoexpress I think. Not bad but I've been used to way better in a car with loads more miles on it. Still, I am really looking forward to my Cupra arriving tomorrow and what will be, will be. It was my decision to buy and no one elses.
ibizacupra
18-10-2001, 11:47
Originally posted by djawol
Did I miss something here ? Or was the original post removed? :confused:
Say what?
Is something missing here?
??????????????
Bill
StevoWarby
18-10-2001, 13:54
Well have fun tomorrow Toonman!!!
The only really bad thing about getting a new Cupra is having to drive it sensibly for a 1,000 miles to run it in - but then I suppose you get that with any new car anyway!
Have fun!
Stevo.
Thanks for the good wishes Stevo. I'm sure I will and am just trying to think of all the long ways to places to get the miles on. Still, on holiday next week, so we should get sorted quickly. What is the upper rev limit until it's run in?
StevoWarby
18-10-2001, 14:24
If I remember correctly the manual says all the usual stuff - try not to accelerate or brake too hard..
I think it states not to go faster than 75% of the engines permissible speed which at 142mph I make out to be 106½mph...
I tend to try not to rev more than two thirds of the rev range which is approx 4,300 or 4,500 if you like, and then once passed the 1,000 miles just gradually increase it!!!
Does anyone else out there know if the top speed of 142mph is limited by the engine? Without saying where this was, I have taken mine to approx 125mph which was just under 5,000 revs... So doesn't that mean if I keep going to 6,000 I would be doing approx 150?
Stevo.
Thanks again Stevo. 106.5mph??? Mmmmm...:devil:
If 125mph is about 5000rpm, then 6500 rpm is about 163mph.
Neil
StevoWarby
18-10-2001, 22:39
Exactly right Neil - hence why I am confused...
I must admit at 125mph the rate of acceleration did start to slow a bit - although it was still going somewhat..
I can only guess that at around 142mph (Whatever revs that may be) there simply isn't enough power to get it any nearer the red line - hence why some of these chipped motors can get to 146+..
Stevo.
As you say, its all down to power of pushing throught the air. I think once you start getting into the 140's you need alot more power. for example, look at the top speeds of most cars with 150-200bhp and theres only about 10-12mpg difference, wheres 100-150bhp its more like 20-25mph.
I think areodynamics plays a big part, my Primera 2.0GT (150bhp) would push 147mph (book 136mph) down hill, yet my Primera 1.6 (102bhp) would also push 135mph (book 118mph) down (a very steep) hill. Proving that down hill cars are more evenly matched.
In most cases car will produce their top speed at maximum power, which of course isn't at maximum revs. Trouble is these days perfomance figures by manufactures are computer generated, and from experience if you point a car down hill, in most cases it will hold that speed once on the flat again.
Phheeewww, that was a mouth full:D
Neil
There is, perhaps, another reason. I'm no car tech buff, so don't take the mick if I'm well off target, but....
The speedo isn't actually all that accurate, is it? If it says you're doing 120Mph, perhaps you're only doing 105Mph or something.
If that's the case, then maybe when you're doing 160Mph or so according to the speedo, you are in fact only doing 142Mph. i.e. the advertised maximum.
Just a suggestion. Like I say, don't take the mick: I currently own a Hyundai (Leon Cupra on order, though) so what do I know?! ;)
:D
Phatt!
Speedos and rev-counters can both be innacurate (so thank heavens for rev limiters!).
Your top speed is defined by engine power, drag coefficient, frontal area, and rolling resistance.....
These are all "known" ~ so engineers will then try and select gearing that gives "max power rpm" at this speed in top gear. This usually means "best choice" from whatever standard (or VAG group in this case) options are available.
Power requirement increases with the square of the speed. (So doubling your speed requires 4 times the power).
For a 20VT Cupra:-
90bhp would give you 100.5mph
180bhp gives you 142mph
250bhp would only give you 167mph (with new gearing!)
Speedos these days are in general very accuarate. As an Ex-committee member of an MG club I had the chance to take my car (at the time a Primera GT) on the rolling road, it recorded a 2mph over read through out the speed range, this was confirmed by another committee member who was a qualified Police technitain as well as a traffic cop.
This was most likely because it had an elecronic speedo as aposed to the cable driven ones like on my Montego which was proved to be 6.5% out via a GPS system on a Eurpoean Endurance rally (i.e, at 122mph it was showing 130mph).
Neil
Thanks for resisting the urge to take the mick! ;)
Having driven a slow-mobile for a lot of years, I've never really gotten into the technical side of driving, or the technology behind the cars. That's changing now (three weeks and counting until Cupra day!) although it seems I have a long way to go yet!
:D
Phatt!
Comedy Si
19-10-2001, 18:51
I think you lot should get out more...
1. You slag Driven for not rating the Leon and being biased, and then come out with arguments like 'its jsut a crappy skoda/rover' etc...dont think that's a little 2-faced?
2. Ever driven either one of the others....? (Ive test driven an RS, and it is a nice car. Agree with comments about gearbox (VW 6-speed is shite, 5-speed a lot better). I'll also wager, judging by other road reports, the chassis on the MG is far superior to the Leon (but i will reserve judgement until i test drive one)
3. Would you also have slagged the programme off if the Leon had come first...?
4. Anyway, WHO CARES!!!! Do you enjoy your leon? if the answer is yes, why be so insecure about what anyone else thinks about it?
So just go out, enjoy your car, and don't be so insecure. Lets face it, if any Ibiza driver worried about what reviews it got, SEAT would never have sold any 20VT Ibiza Cupra, as there's not a single tester who said it was any good...and if you drive one back-to-back against a 172, you'll see why they said that...
Just trying to be a bit more objective guys...i know some of the judging comments weren't excellent, but the general opnions are still broadly factual and valid. Lets also remember cars have moved on SO much in the last couple of years...you've only got to look at what VW is coming up with on its new super-passat, and other manufacturers fitting xenon, auto wipers, auto lights, semi-automatics etc, to see that maybe SEAT is falling behind a little...
yeah i know what you mean , but i think most people are just peeved as it didnt seem to get a fair crack of the whip thats all
we should just say oh well , maybe next time theyll get a full PROPER thorough review :p
as for laggin behind in the latest technology
"""" xenon, auto wipers, auto lights, semi-automatics etc, to see that maybe SEAT is falling behind a little... """
what class of car do you think the leon is catergorised in ? we are not talkin super car or luxury cruisers here ???????
theyll soon get gadgets fitted as they become widestream kit , its just imagine the price of a toledo if it was kitted out to take on LEXUS eh ?
Comedy Si
20-10-2001, 10:56
Flapper - cheers fella....know what you're saying, but the thing is, a 172 has all that...and Renault even offer the semi-auto's on their 'town run-around' Clio...jsut seems a bit to me like VW are not putting too much attention on SEAT jsut now, which is a shame as they could potentially lose all the good headwork that they have made over the last few years...
Comedy Si - I think Flapper is right there.
I don't think anyone thought the Leon should have won hands down, they were just a bit annoyed at all the pants that was said about it (a bit basic etc) and the general rubbishness of the review!
It was a bit of a shock to see your own car getting reviewed so badly when you were quite happy with it!
and I'm sure everyone gets out enough...:D
Yup i also agree with Flapper.
I'd never say the Leon is perfect becuase it isn't, but its a lot better than Driven made it out to be. The review was biased from the beginning always a probelm in my opinion when a program is funded by advertising.
Its one thing to undertake a review feature as in Driven, but priority must be given to conduct a fair unbiased opinion and test on all the cars being tested.
Driven fell flat on its face in this area.
The Skoda is a great car and shares most of its underpinnings with the Leon anyway, highly underated, but will suffer from badge stigma because of its high profile history. I'd consider testing one anyway if i was in the market for a new car.
The Rover though a flashy looking car and undoubtably has had some attention spent on it, i always get the feeling Longbridge are, to be frank, polishing a turd. I want to support Rover and Britain, and what they've achieved so far in the motorsport world is commendable, but they wont get a look in until they start creating some new motors based on new designs, i hope thats what they are now doing.
SEAT has begun to fall behind a little in terms of features, but thats a sign of the times and the changing price point of the car reflects this. My own Leon cost me £17k and was one of the first true UK Cupra's, the price reflected what you got as standard, now most of those toys have been removed to make it more attractive to a particular market.
The Leon shouldn't of even been on test in this group, its a Hatchback for a start and much more suited to being a family group car, in line with Golf, Focus, Civic.
Wont comment on the Clio vs Ibiza, cause neither are the cars suited to me and though ive owned an Ibiza 16v which was superb, I was looking for a larger car anyway, and the Leon suited the purposes i use it for and a lot more besides.
As for handling charateristics Plato showed up they do tend to understeer on those crap 16" Wheels, he wants to try it on 17's with a low profile tyre, much sharper and predictable.
In my opinion the newer Leon Cupra doesn't really belong in that group anymore, I wouldn't describe it as a Sports Car or Executive car, its a hot family runabout. But if the V6 and the Leon R make it to Britain then watch out the rest of the market.
Hi,
here in germany, the Octavia RS and the Leon Cupra do NOT have the same Engine, as posted above.
The Octavia RS has the 1.8 20VT Engine, like the Leon Sport 20VT.
The Leon Cupra is only available with the 2.8l V6 and the TDI. The Leon Cupra RS is going to be equipped with the 1.8 20VT Engine of the Audi S3, but is not available yet.
Comparing the 1.8T to the 2.8l V6, the V6 is a bit faster, but not in everyday life. Considering responsiveness and elasticity the Turbo is much better !
So if they compared these engines in the test I would understand that the Ocativa rated better than the Leon.
@lex
Hi Alex
In the UK we dont yet have the Cupra V6 our Cupra is what you would call the Sport 20VT, therefore both the Octavia and LEon had identical engines but different gearboxes.
I think this is the reason the 5 speed Octavia is probably having the edge over the 6 Speed Leon.
The 5 Speed box is probably making the power much more usuble for pumping around a race track as they did in this test on the TV programme. The 6 speed i feel is probably much more suite to high speed autobahn style driving.
Ive driven my Leon in track conditions, and find compared to the IBiza VT's it can pack less of a punch thru the gears until it reaches the high end of the scale, where it will then begin to pull away.
Weight would also be an issue compared with the smaller cars, having not driven an Octavia i cant really comment, but think the 5 speed box is probably more of a factor here, rather than the engine which is what the idiot on the TV programme felt was the issue.
This wouldnt be the case as they are identical engines :)
I expect that a V6 on test would of been much better competition for the cars they tested it against, and i think the overall reaction to it would of been better.
As yet we in the UK have been overlooked for the 4WD V6. :(
i must digress as to the CLIO i havent had the chance to drive it myself , im an ex renault guy (worked 6yrs) so i have seen all the newish clios and meganes come through , the "easy" semi auto was a an innovation all of its own and damn smart too , never relly took off though , to be honest its NOT really a perfomance additiion , bit too, ermmm sluggish?? slow?? wots the words . never mind try it and see for yourself
reccomend keepin away from the rev limiter as they had a habit of cuttin out altogether if you forgot to change gear and bounced it 3 times
:(
my little (big bugger) brother still works @ the dealers i used to as a techie , he reckons (i agree) the best clio is the Rsi , now if you want a diddy little scorcher , try that :p
I just cant be arsed to post on this one.
Bloody load of nonsense.
C4, disown these people.
For top speeds to be attainable on these cars they need at least 35,000 miles on the clock, before this my car was barely able to get over 130!!, I have tested the top speed of mine and was only able to hit the rev limiter after this mileage,
It stopped accellerating at 146mph indicated, and my GPS was saying 141mph,
It is definately an electronic limit cos suddenly all of the power dissapears and the car wont accellerate anymore, but if you drop 5mph then put your foot down it accellerates back up to 146 then stops again, just like you have taken your foot off the accellerator just enough to stop accellerating, but it doesnt make you drop speed, it just maintains it
Talking of gearing on the Octavia RS, from what I have seen/read its gear ratios should make it a slower accelerator than the Leon, with top speeds in the first 3 gears of about 45, 76 & 109, the gearing must be quite high, and theoretically acceleration would suffer.
I can’t imagin the Leon having a top speed limitor, but as said before, aerodynamics would also give a sudden drop in acceleration, especially at the 140ish mph where “normal” cars aerodynamics become unable to push enough air out of the way. Its like I said in an earlier thread, most cars of 100-120bhp+ will hit 130-140 down hill, but once they get to their aerodynamics maximum wont go any faster however steep the hill.
Neil