IHI VF34 or GT28RS??

[Mark@VAGWORX]

I'm going to be swopping out my charged VR lump for a 1.8T over the next few months.

Car is Mk3 Golf VR6.

I'm looking on advice for the best route to go when chosing the turbo.

I'll be using an AUQ head and AUM bottom end with DTA managament.

I'm looking for a sustainable 330-350hp. Which of the 2 turbos listed above would be the better option for the figures i want to achieve??

Any help and thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[ibizacupra]

either IMHO will get you those figures.
garrett has more spare's availability.

depends on how hard you want to push them respectively...
IHI exhaust housings are not so good at high temps, moving/warping/cracking. You would'nt want to see sustained EGT's much over 900'C - I have several dead ones around me to confirm this.

Some VF units have suffered bearing failures, which is end of turbo. All down to how hard you run them. Keep em to sensible 1.2-1.3bar boost and 300-320bhp and they should go for many 1000's mile problem free. Get the urge to run em higher and.... well you eat into their reliability margin in my experience. (exhaust housings in particular)

I would imagine a VF34 could outspool a GT28RS slightly, as its a lower inertia contruction. It loves to produces shed loads of boost, which can be its demise.

Jabba are IHI kings in experience terms, and also moving onto mitsubishi TD series these days also... JBS do garretts and IHI. 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other.

I had good service from my original VF34/18 on 1.2bar boost. I then grew horns and wanted more and more.. flogging the poor thing harder & harder, to the point things melted on occasion. :doh:

Changing out the VR for a 1.8t tho? why?

[jenk]

Drop the VR in my ibiza while your at it mate ;)

[Mark@VAGWORX]

either IMHO will get you those figures.
garrett has more spare's availability.

depends on how hard you want to push them respectively...
IHI exhaust housings are not so good at high temps, moving/warping/cracking. You would'nt want to see sustained EGT's much over 900'C - I have several dead ones around me to confirm this.

Some VF units have suffered bearing failures, which is end of turbo. All down to how hard you run them. Keep em to sensible 1.2-1.3bar boost and 300-320bhp and they should go for many 1000's mile problem free. Get the urge to run em higher and.... well you eat into their reliability margin in my experience. (exhaust housings in particular)

I would imagine a VF34 could outspool a GT28RS slightly, as its a lower inertia contruction. It loves to produces shed loads of boost, which can be its demise.

Jabba are IHI kings in experience terms, and also moving onto mitsubishi TD series these days also... JBS do garretts and IHI. 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other.

I had good service from my original VF34/18 on 1.2bar boost. I then grew horns and wanted more and more.. flogging the poor thing harder & harder, to the point things melted on occasion. :doh:

Changing out the VR for a 1.8t tho? why?

Thanks for the reply Bill.

So, the GT28Rs looks the better option for me then. I would probably want to run nearer the 340hp mark if i could and if that's going to push the VF too hard then i may have to let that option go.

Next option is whether to use the eliminator setup on a K series manifold, or go for a T3 flanged RS and use a tubular manifold. I like the T3 option better to be honest, and i'm also assuming that a much better rate of flow is achievable.

Swopping the VR out......why? Old technology now i guess, and i want more hp!

[ibizacupra]

Thanks for the reply Bill.

So, the GT28Rs looks the better option for me then. I would probably want to run nearer the 340hp mark if i could and if that's going to push the VF too hard then i may have to let that option go.

Next option is whether to use the eliminator setup on a K series manifold, or go for a T3 flanged RS and use a tubular manifold. I like the T3 option better to be honest, and i'm also assuming that a much better rate of flow is achievable.

Swopping the VR out......why? Old technology now i guess, and i want more hp!

not talking you out of VF34 as its a good unit within limts, same as Garrett within limits.. They too blow up when pushed too hard..

There are guys on here, I was one of them previously, who ran 1.5 bar to 1.6bar on the VF34, got 340+bhp out of them with similar torque etc... Sustained hard use like mine has on track and the extra being asked of them can take its toll on housings from heat. You dont hear of garrett housings warping over on vortex, or the few in the uk who are running them. I suspect their exhaust housings are rated higher temps.

I have yet to see back to back GT28Rs/IHI VF34 on the same dyno same day, same spec engine.... ut I doubt there would be much in it, with perhaps slightly faster spool from the VF34.


Why not turbo the VR?
proper power!

[Mark@VAGWORX]

not talking you out of VF34 as its a good unit within limts, same as Garrett within limits.. They too blow up when pushed too hard..

There are guys on here, I was one of them previously, who ran 1.5 bar to 1.6bar on the VF34, got 340+bhp out of them with similar torque etc... Sustained hard use like mine has on track and the extra being asked of them can take its toll on housings from heat. You dont hear of garrett housings warping over on vortex, or the few in the uk who are running them. I suspect their exhaust housings are rated higher temps.

I have yet to see back to back GT28Rs/IHI VF34 on the same dyno same day, same spec engine.... ut I doubt there would be much in it, with perhaps slightly faster spool from the VF34.


Why not turbo the VR?
proper power!

Cool, bit of an unknown still the 28RS on the 1.8t overhere i guess.

Did think about turboing the VR, but it would have cost a fortune to do it properly, and they're not that reliable.

[andythom]

Cool, bit of an unknown still the 28RS on the 1.8t overhere i guess.

Did think about turboing the VR, but it would have cost a fortune to do it properly, and they're not that reliable.

Seen this at tatton park at the weekend and spotted this thread :)

might lure you to turbo the VR :)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/andythom1888/Tatton%20Samples/DSC02799.jpg

[jenk]

theres guy on here with a turbod VR in a mk2 ibiza, running good power. Im sure he was on about selling the kit :confused:

[andythom]

Must sound awsome

[Mark@VAGWORX]

Yeah, not going to Turbo the VR, sounds like a headache to me!

[beattie17]

Wooo wondered what you were upto,thought u had another car lined up,but changing lumps instead.
Ive heard good things about gt28rs!

[ibizacupra]

GT30R is worth considering also, with 0.63 a/r

[Mark@VAGWORX]

GT30R is worth considering also, with 0.63 a/r

I plan to leave the internals stock Bill.

Will the 30R not put to great a strain on it? The car is a daily driver.

What sort of trim would be a suitable compromise between spool and high end power on the 28RS?

[thechief]

As the engine would already be out of the car I would really think about adding in some Scat rods and pistons if needed. Maybe even an overbore as machine work is usually cheap.

[EddyH]

I plan to leave the internals stock Bill.

Will the 30R not put to great a strain on it? The car is a daily driver.

What sort of trim would be a suitable compromise between spool and high end power on the 28RS?

I have a GT30R as a daily driver. Even with the GT28RS unless you are running low boost I think you will need to uprate the internals, same goes for IHI.

[Mark@VAGWORX]

Yeah, thanks for the input guys.

What sort of hp are the stock internals good for?

[ibizacupra]

well I did >35K miles on stock bottom end on my ibiza AYP motor with 1.6bar boost, zero rod problems ever.

I would'nt risk this on a 19mm pin rod tho

1.2-1.3 bar with no det and the stock rods seem to cope ok.... but forged rods will bring peace of mind.

[Mark@VAGWORX]

Right ok. What sort of figures were you running on 1.2-1.3 bar Bill?

[ibizacupra]

Right ok. What sort of figures were you running on 1.2-1.3 bar Bill?

320fly, 280lbft torque from memory

[Mark@VAGWORX]

Well i ordered the full blown GT28RS kit yesterday. Should be with me this week sometime hopefully. Didn't go for the Eliminator kit in the end.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-123&Category_Code=VVWTK

[cu51pra]

Well i ordered the full blown GT28RS kit yesterday. Should be with me this week sometime hopefully. Didn't go for the Eliminator kit in the end.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-123&Category_Code=VVWTK

how much did it set you back in pounds if you dont mind asking because i will want this kit on the s3 im buying or a gt30r

[ibizacupra]

Well i ordered the full blown GT28RS kit yesterday. Should be with me this week sometime hopefully. Didn't go for the Eliminator kit in the end.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-123&Category_Code=VVWTK

you figured out how the DP is going to get past the rear engine mount & brake servo with their full kit?
This going onto an ibiza?

[sportuner]

GT30R is worth considering also, with 0.63 a/r


Is really interesting this proposal ¡¡¡

Do you have any dyno graph and how much power do you think this setup would give?

[ibizacupra]

Is really interesting this proposal ¡¡¡

Do you have any dyno graph and how much power do you think this setup would give?

I dont, but I have followed (tried) an ibiza cupra like mine running one on an equal length manifold. Its very fast. Mine was 390bhp and it walked away from mine when his was running only 1.2bar boost. He was running 1.6bar but wheelspin was massive. (estimating 450bhp from it)

[Mark@VAGWORX]

you figured out how the DP is going to get past the rear engine mount & brake servo with their full kit?
This going onto an ibiza?

Going in a Mk3 Golf.

[m0rk]

I think you'll still hit the servo with the DP on a mk3 golf

unless you somehow relocate it?

[Mark@VAGWORX]

I think you'll still hit the servo with the DP on a mk3 golf

unless you somehow relocate it?

Some fabricating needed by the lads doing the conversion then me thinks!

[m0rk]

the turbo exits right (and I mean right) where the brake servo is

You need a different manifold.

[Mark@VAGWORX]

Try and relocate the servo first i think.

[ibizacupra]

Going in a Mk3 Golf.

same style engine mounts and servo proximity as ibiza