View Full Version : Warming up
Neel-Cupra
31-08-2006, 20:01
Hi everyone, just wanted to know how long people leave their car running after start up to warm it? i normally idle for a min then drive off, what does everyone else do?
Hi mate, Just drive it normally for the first few minutes, not flat out full boost but dont worry too much about it.
andycupra
31-08-2006, 20:30
im not sure letting it idle actually ends up being any better. may gain some components and detrimental for others. eg cam.
start driving but on low load. ie no booting it.
Neel-Cupra
31-08-2006, 20:44
Hi guys, ok not been idling recently but just thought id ask, how long does it normally take the oil to get 2 operating temp? i usually wait 20 mins before bouting it ..
About 10 minutes of normal driving.
ibiza-cupra
31-08-2006, 21:36
steady away untill im on normal running temp
i generally start the engine then sit in the car till the revs fall to normal before driving off.. i then (try) to wait till the water reaches 90 then wait the same amount of time again to let the oil warm before really ragging it ;)
Neel-Cupra
31-08-2006, 22:26
cheers guys, ninja i do the same! jus thought id see what others opinions are, jus sometimes when its a cold morning and i drive off i it feels like the engine doesnt want to move lol
gazjones
31-08-2006, 22:55
i normally let the water temp gauge move before putting any boost through then wait till its at 90 till i put my foot to the floor fully and a few more mins till i really put my foot down gear after gear!
ian_jobson
31-08-2006, 23:13
water warms quicker than oil will...
i just start it up and rag the bollocks off it always put my belt on first
ibiza-cupra
31-08-2006, 23:30
lol oval bores for you then
yeah but at least im safe lol
Start and drive like the car was made for?! lol
You can be *too* over the top when doing this sorta thing.
The car was made to be driven by Joe Bloggs, someone who will get in the car, from cold, and drive it normally, not thinking about oil temperatures or anything like that.
Although, id agree, its with the assumption Joe Bloggs doesnt wheelspin off the drive from cold...lol
I hardly ever put my foot flat down, im sure you all dont drive foot the floor wherever you go?!
brad_cupra05
01-09-2006, 20:38
i just drive normally untill the temp gauge hits 90 before i even think about some spirited driving lol
Cupra R 231
02-09-2006, 00:17
Get yourself a Cupra R oil temp gauge.. then wait till it gets up near 90 deg then nail it.....
But generally speaking around 10-12 mins of steady driving before the oil is up to temp
Tony 156
04-09-2006, 11:37
leaving engines that arnt designed to idle, idle isnt a good thing. no major damage but there not designed too. ive been told let the temp guage hit the 90 mark before giving it beans. has worked for me and the people i know.
CupraTgirl
04-09-2006, 12:31
If starting mine from cold then it sits at about 1200RPM and i leave it to sit until it drops to 840RPM and then i drive off! I then wait until it says 90 degrees to drive on boost
I have always done this (with my first cupra and this one) and always will just as i let it sit for a couple of minutes after a long or hard drive
There has been a couple of times i have driven off straight away but its rare :love:
Cupra R 231
04-09-2006, 16:48
There's nothing wrong with driving off straight away as long as your not coming on boost and your driving steady....
2 main times the engines gonna suffer wear really - initial start up until oil pressure is up, which will only be a turn or 2 of the crank, and putting engine under to much load whilst it (remember parts of you engine are going to expand to there optimum size once up to temp) and the oil (basicly linked together but its a better indication of you engines acctual temperature) are not up to operating temp.
Remember that 90deg on you normal temp gauge (coolant) doesn't mean its warm.... the important bit is the oil temp which is why I always like an oil temp gauge. If I didn't have a R I would of made it a priority to fit 1...
But also as SeanyK says.. Engines are built for jo blogs to drive that know nothing about temperatures and the problems it could cause. They don't expect jo blogs to sit parked up while the engine warms up. It is expected that your gonna start car and drive off in a normal manner.. just not lunatic speed!! if thats your normal manner......
CupraTgirl
04-09-2006, 16:51
There's nothing wrong with driving off straight away as long as your not coming on boost and your driving steady....
2 main times the engines gonna suffer wear really - initial start up until oil pressure is up, which will only be a turn or 2 of the crank, and putting engine under to much load whilst it (remember parts of you engine are going to expand to there optimum size once up to temp) and the oil (basicly linked together but its a better indication of you engines acctual temperature) are not up to operating temp.
Remember that 90deg on you normal temp gauge (coolant) doesn't mean its warm.... the important bit is the oil temp which is why I always like an oil temp gauge. If I didn't have a R I would of made it a priority to fit 1...
But also as SeanyK says.. Engines are built for jo blogs to drive that know nothing about temperatures and the problems it could cause. They don't expect jo blogs to sit parked up while the engine warms up. It is expected that your gonna start car and drive off in a normal manner.. just not lunatic speed!! if thats your normal manner......
Yeah i know what your saying, its just something i have always done so am used to it but i do agree LOADS of people get cars and dont think twice about 'warming it up'
Neel-Cupra
04-09-2006, 17:23
Thanks for the responses guys/girls .. what about cooling off? for a example a 5 min trip down the road, a medium length journey with no thrashing or a long jo bloggs trip with racing everything in site?
CupraTgirl
04-09-2006, 17:26
Thanks for the responses guys/girls .. what about cooling off? for a example a 5 min trip down the road, a medium length journey with no thrashing or a long jo bloggs trip with racing everything in site?
If its a small drive or a drive off boost then i wait about 20 seconds (get my bits together) and turn her off
A medium length journey with no thrashing i leave her about 30 seconds
If its a REALLY hard drive racing everything in site then i will leave her about two minutes, as long as i can or as long as i feel is suffice
Cupra R 231
05-09-2006, 18:28
By the way CupraTgirl out of intrest I was checking both my temp gauges and even once the coolant temp was upto 90deg the oil still wasn't even registering on the gauge which starts at 60.........
Drive almost normal once you coolants upto temp by all means but I would be putting my foot down much for at least another 5 mins especially if running revo because that will just add to any wear you might be causing...
As for cooling down - - -
Yup basicly as CupraTgirl says...
Bit of comon sense really. say you've trundled round for a while and taken it easy all the way then there's no real need to let it idle. But as above I basicly take my time collecting my stuff get out of car and turn off just before shutting door..
After a stint at a good pace down a motorway or something like that then I'd say a bit more than 30 sec. More nearer 2 mins but that depends wether you've eased off for a few miles before hand....
After a good hard beasting I'd leave it for nearer 4 mins. But again depends wether you've been nailing it right untill you stop on your door step.. If you steady down for a mile or more before you stop then you could half the time.
As I say common sense... Use your own judgement as to how you've been driving and how hot the car might be just previous to you stopping...
Never ever ever ever ever give the car a good blip of throttle as your turning it off, unless you really don't like your turbo
Neel-Cupra
05-09-2006, 19:08
ok so if you have been driving off boost for the last 5 mins of your drive then 2 min cool down would be sufficient after a blast ..
I hardly ever put my foot flat down, im sure you all dont drive foot the floor wherever you go?!
I do when i borrow my brothers car, but thats the only way you can drive it off the driveway or it wont make it up the hill (0-30 in about 10 seconds....lol.)
if your that worried, buy a turbo timer, then atleast you know its ok!
my mate used to rag the HELL out of his RS, then stop the car, take keys out to open the bonnet (only way you can open it) to see the turbo glow..
(any1 witnessed turbo glow? goes almost see through sometimes!!)
Cupra R 231
05-09-2006, 20:49
If you've been driving steady and off boost for 5 mins then a 2 min idle is more than adequate.... I would probably leave for around 1 min.. the 5 mins of driving slow should of done all the cooling down.
CupraTgirl
06-09-2006, 09:02
By the way CupraTgirl out of intrest I was checking both my temp gauges and even once the coolant temp was upto 90deg the oil still wasn't even registering on the gauge which starts at 60.........
Drive almost normal once you coolants upto temp by all means but I would be putting my foot down much for at least another 5 mins especially if running revo because that will just add to any wear you might be causing...
As for cooling down - - -
Yup basicly as CupraTgirl says...
Bit of comon sense really. say you've trundled round for a while and taken it easy all the way then there's no real need to let it idle. But as above I basicly take my time collecting my stuff get out of car and turn off just before shutting door..
After a stint at a good pace down a motorway or something like that then I'd say a bit more than 30 sec. More nearer 2 mins but that depends wether you've eased off for a few miles before hand....
After a good hard beasting I'd leave it for nearer 4 mins. But again depends wether you've been nailing it right untill you stop on your door step.. If you steady down for a mile or more before you stop then you could half the time.
As I say common sense... Use your own judgement as to how you've been driving and how hot the car might be just previous to you stopping...
Never ever ever ever ever give the car a good blip of throttle as your turning it off, unless you really don't like your turbo
Yeah i generally notice that it doesnt feel right driving hard even when it reads 90 degrees, that has always just been a guideline for me to know i am happy to move the car :lol:
I dont often drive REALLY hard in my car anyway but if i was going to i would do it once everything is warmed up properly! There would be no point doing in when cold as you would be able to feel it holding back, the car kind of tells you itself when its ready to be driven hard, you know?
I agree with you though, if you have been driving hard and then just stop you would need to leave it longer than if you were driving hard, then cruising slowly, then stopping
letting it warm up by leaving it idle can do more harm than good as the oil pressure doesnt get up very high and so the oil doesnt get all the way round the engine quickly.
As well as the pressure not getting up (because of lack of revs) the engine will take longer to get to full temp as its doing less work and so loosing less energy to heat.
I'd sugest keep it below 3k rpm untill the water temp says 90. then (if you cant tell the oil is upto full temp) another 5 mins driving where you dont boot it or go above 4k. then batter the hell out of it.
drive home for the last 5 mins in a high gear and let the engine cool a bit, if you've been seriously ragging it, open the windows and put the heaters on full. try not to go about 3k at this time too. A further 0.5-2mins at idle (depending on the thrashing its had) will then let the oil run through the turbo and cool it down.
The problem with turning the engine off immediatly when hot on turbo cars is that the turbo cooks the oil inside the charger and its immediate oil lines, clogging them up.
my 2p :)
JAmes
redcupratdi
06-09-2006, 21:00
if your that worried, buy a turbo timer, then atleast you know its ok!
my mate used to rag the HELL out of his RS, then stop the car, take keys out to open the bonnet (only way you can open it) to see the turbo glow..
(any1 witnessed turbo glow? goes almost see through sometimes!!)
yes LCR seem to go white after a ragg remember at a meet it took 5mins just to turn orange! Car running.
And surely you cant be condoning leaving oil with a boiling point of ~150*C in a glowing bit of cast iron ~600*C?
CupraTgirl
07-09-2006, 09:25
letting it warm up by leaving it idle can do more harm than good as the oil pressure doesnt get up very high and so the oil doesnt get all the way round the engine quickly.
As well as the pressure not getting up (because of lack of revs) the engine will take longer to get to full temp as its doing less work and so loosing less energy to heat.
I'd sugest keep it below 3k rpm untill the water temp says 90. then (if you cant tell the oil is upto full temp) another 5 mins driving where you dont boot it or go above 4k. then batter the hell out of it.
drive home for the last 5 mins in a high gear and let the engine cool a bit, if you've been seriously ragging it, open the windows and put the heaters on full. try not to go about 3k at this time too. A further 0.5-2mins at idle (depending on the thrashing its had) will then let the oil run through the turbo and cool it down.
The problem with turning the engine off immediatly when hot on turbo cars is that the turbo cooks the oil inside the charger and its immediate oil lines, clogging them up.
my 2p :)
JAmes
The only thing i do is let it drop from 1200RPM to 840RPM when its started from cold (like it would do on any car) which only takes about two minutes, then i drive off keeping it no higher than 3000RPM until its properly warmed up! Even once warmed up i dont always drive hard
Soon to be Cupra owner...so can't talk for turbo'd car experience. However since I design aircraft engine for a living I know a thing or two about turbines! :p
Driving any mechanical device which is designed to work at a given operating temperature (say 100 deg C for argument) hard when cold causes increased wear and in an extreme a failure. It's called differential thermal expansion. In your average IC engine it just increases wear. If you have a turbo aspirated car it will kill your turbo over time. In essence the turbo's impeller gets hot very quickly as it is in the exhaust gas stream and small. The turbo's housing takes longer to warm up becuase it's bigger (it has a bigger thermal inertia) and this changes the internal clearance in the bearings. In an extreme you get thermal binding, for your average turbo car it just reduces the life of your turbo.
I'm a VDUB man at heart :D and owned only Golf's and Corrados in the past. However, the oil temp is registered on the on board computer and in essence allow it to reach 90degC before canning it - as the chaps mentioned above that's about 12mins normal driving.
Something I've noticed now that the colder weather is here and maybe a dumb question (i'm full of 'em).....
Driving to work, temperature gauge gradually starts creeping up towards 90dC. Get on the motorway doing between 50-60mph in 5th and the gauge starts going back down again. Even after 20 odd minutes of driving, the temp gauge still isn't in it's central position.
Does this mean that the oil may work in the same manner? Or would it be ok to give it a bit of welly.
I noticed that once or twice a few years back, a month or so later the sender unit failed.
I'd guess thats your problem too.
JAmes
I noticed that once or twice a few years back, a month or so later the sender unit failed.
I'd guess thats your problem too.
JAmes
OMG don't tell me that, I've got enough problems with it as it is, lol.
My poor wallets taking a right hammering at the moment :cry:
Thanks for the heads up though, I'll keep an eye on things.
Cupra R 231
13-11-2006, 16:38
Yeah unless something is wrong your coolant temp should hit 90 and stay at that even if it is cold...
Either sender unit is duff or thermostat is duff. Not sure on these motors what the thermostat is like but if its a conventional type then it quite possibly be that...
If it is the thermostat then it does really want replacing if nothing is getting right up to temp then nothing is working as efficently as it should.....
Oh it does actually get up to temperature, just seems to be taking quite a bit longer than usual.
Could putting the heater on bring the temp down? I tend to leave the heating off so it heats up a bit quicker. Once the car goes past the 1/4 mark on the temp gauge, that's when I flick the heater on.
Actually, come to think of it, that's just about when I'm joining the m/way in the mornings. If I go over 3k revs (even just once) then it heats up to 90dC ok but I try not to until it's properly warmed up.
Damo,
Irrespective of ambient temperature, your engine is designed to run a certain ISO grade oil for its operating temperature. Vag engines tend to run hotter than most but let's argue 90 to 95 deg C. Viscosity is the main property of oil that dictates how well it can lubricate internals. This is measured in an SI unit called centiStokes. For an ISO32 oil this means it has a viscosity of 32 centistokes at 40 deg C (the common agreed temp where viscosity is measured).
To put it into perspective that same oil at 100 deg C has a viscosity of 4 to 5 centiStokes - which means it is much less viscous.
So, if you've been running for a while and your oil temp gauge is reading above 80 or so degrees... give it some welly boy!
Note that your oil will pick up temp quickly if everything around it is already warmed up, so fear not.
When I potter around at 50mph in 5th gear (doesn't happen a lot :whistle: ) oil can come down to 86 deg C in winter. Blast it again and it's soon up to 92 - 94. Holds at 108 deg C during prolonged high engine speed runing (5,000rpm or so). It's an ABF block, so relevant data for the Mk2 Ibiza crowd.
Thanks!
Loko :p
Damo,
Misunderstood your post. If you're talking about your coolant temp then you have a duff temp sender or a sticky thermostat.
It might be initial signs of a poorly thermostat...they do usually stick either open (if you're lucky - just means your block runs too cold) or closed (if you're unlucky - means you'll overheat in traffic when your radiator doesn't kick in!).
If it's the sender it's a cheap, quick job.
Damo,
cheap, quick job.
BINGO!. :D
At last, something thats cheap to fix, lol.
Many thanks for the info (including the stuff about oil, lol). It's all useful to know :)
T.C cupra
13-11-2006, 22:22
I wait until revs drop to normal and then drive it carefully for about 15-20 min. oil takes longer to warm up than water. As soon as the water temp reaches 90 the oil temp is only at about 45. so i wait until they av both reached 90 before i nail it!!!
The sender was 18 quid i think, takes about 2mins to change over and you dont loose all the coolant (if your quick) just make sure you do it when the engine is cold.
Sender units are cheap and easy to replace, even if its not gubbed, it rules out it being gubbed for when you go fault finding.
JAmes.
ps. oooo just realised i've not got the same engine as you, i'm sure it'll be a similar sensor though and i think its roughly the same thermostat layout. maybe someone with the same car could help you out?
Cheers Jammy.
I'll go to the stealers and get the part ordered up (i'd imagine the prices should be similar if not identical).
I'll do a search on here as well about fitment and do it before it gets to cold outside.
Update;
I've replaced the coolant temp sensor but things haven't really changed an awful lot (it is better than it was). It's still taking about 15-20mins to get up to 90dC from a cold start. Once it gets to that temp, the gauge will sometimes creep back ever so slightly (certainly not anywhere near as much as before changing the sensor). Thing is, once the car has been driven for a good half hour or so, the gauge no longer creeps back.
No fault codes have been logged.
Am I worrying over nothing on this?
Cupra R 231
30-11-2006, 17:12
Still sounds like you got a problem...
Even my oil doesn't take that long to warm up...
Coolant should be warm in 5 - 6 mins max I would think..
From the point when the needle starts moving to when it hits 90deg takes no time at all infact you can see it climbing. At no point has it ever creeped back at all....
Reckon you got a prob with the thermostat sticking open slightly....
The needle starts to move from 60dC after about 5mins.
It does seems to hang around the 75dC mark for a while.
I initially thought it might be down to the FMIC cos once this was fitted, getting the car warmed up seemed to take longer than before.
Do you know where the thermostat is in the engine bay?
I'm going to time exactly how long it takes to warm up tomorrow morning.
So it should go from 60 to 90 on the gauge in about 5-6 mins?
Cupra R 231
30-11-2006, 17:51
Yep I'm sure mine is warm within 5-6 mins (coolant anyay), the oil takes another 5-6 on top of that....
Have you got a standard coolant gauge because mine starts at 60 deg????
But from the point where it comes on the gauge (60deg) to when it hits 90deg is probably around 1 min possibly less. as i say you can see it climb at a fairly fast rate....
As for where the thermostat is to be honest I don't know I've never looked. could have a look in day light and get back to you but i'm sure someone on here could tell you straight away
Have you got a standard coolant gauge because mine starts at 60 deg????
Lol, yep sorry, standard gauges so it starts from 60dC.
I can't believe I had to run down to the car and check, I've had the car for 5+ years :hide:
As for where the thermostat is to be honest I don't know I've never looked. could have a look in day light and get back to you but i'm sure someone on here could tell you straight away
If you wouldn't mind having a quick peek for me tomorrow (in case no-one else replies) that would be much appreciated.
Cupra R 231
30-11-2006, 18:48
Yeah can have a better look tomoro...
I reckon it'll be on the right hand side of the head looking at the front of the car, just going from previous experience with other cars....
If you take the engine cover off you should see it bolted to the side of the head with a few pipes leaving it.. Should be a large pipe leaving from the front of it heading towards the radiator....
Where that large pipe comes out to go to the rad, the outlet stub it is attached to should be removable and just behind that should be the thermostat...
But I never changed one or even bothered looking for it on any 20vt engines so I'm only assuming its in this position... (all other cars I worked on are in that place and there surely can't be many places to put the thermostat housing......
i would expect the thermostat to be in the plastic housing that the temp sensor goes into. This should be replaces next as its the next most cheap and will rule out it being broken. Sounds like you have an issue with it though, so i would be trying it, even if you need to pay to have it fitted.
I am sure someone on here must know how to change it over though.
JAmes
All sorted now chaps. Thermostat replaced (located at front of block to the lower left) and warming up a good'un now.
Cheers for the help.
Cupra R 231
09-12-2006, 21:43
Nice 1 good to hear.....
Thought it was the thermostat first time you said.....
MrSkinny
09-04-2007, 03:00
For f*cks sake you losers, why are you on about cool down times?? Just drive the bloody car and stop wasting everyones time. Your all on about your cars as if they're Feraris. Stop wasting time with additional cr*p and save up for a real car...like my Leon Cupra [B)] .
brad_cupra05
09-04-2007, 17:14
For f*cks sake you losers, why are you on about cool down times?? Just drive the bloody car and stop wasting everyones time. Your all on about your cars as if they're Feraris. Stop wasting time with additional cr*p and save up for a real car...like my Leon Cupra [B)] .
In case you havent noticed this is an enthusiast site so people want to take care of there cars whether its a ferrari or an ibiza is not the issue! also warming up and cooling down prolongs turbo life and i dont know about you but id like my turbo to last as long as possible!
1 post....Mrskinny.......
Hmmmm id suggest you bugger off and crawl back under what ever rock you crawled out from under. It was an a adult conversation.
Cupra R 231
09-04-2007, 20:10
If you don't give a crap about your car then you not a car enthusiast....
Most\all the people that use this site are enthusiasts and for the people that don't know what damage they can be doing by not warming up or cooling down, it may just save them a very costly bill they could of very easily avoided....
As posted... for the stupid comments you've made on your first post I think you should be crawling away under that rock......
A real car..... Your leon.... No offence but at least the ibiza is quite limited in numbers as aposed to the millions of leons you see every day..... That and there is a list longer than my arm of the ibizas on this forum that what destroy you leon.........
Please grow up and while your at it grow a brain.........