Strut Brace
- Thread starter Havok316
- Start date
Will get mine ordered then using part number above - £53 not too bad for oem part. To fit i assume can simply jack up, remove wheels, slot into place, drill, paint and fit ? cheers
When you jack it up try and keep it level so as not to twist the front of the car, I did mine on my mate MOT ramp's, Also when it's jacked up you dont need to remove the wheels.
Oh and make sure you've got a couple a sharp drill bit's as the strut houseing 's are bloody tuff.
Oh and make sure you've got a couple a sharp drill bit's as the strut houseing 's are bloody tuff.
Sounds straight forward. People mentioned M10 or M12 bolts ? can decide on which when get brace (measure holes), but any idea on length ? was thinking stainless and nylock nuts, or better stick to zinc plated steel ?
woots
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Depends how strong you want the bolts to be, guess there isn't much to go wrong if the bolts break but I'd check what the S3 uses. Stainless usually won't be as strong as zinc plated for a given cost. For instance zinc plated most commonly come in grade 8.8 (it will be stamped on the head) which means they have an ultimate tensile strength (when they break) of 800MPa and a yield strength (when they permently deform, ie stretch) of 640MPa wheras a fairly decent stainless bolt grade such as A2-70 has a UTS of 700MPa and a yield of 450MPa. As they are cheap, strong and coated to stop them rusting I'd get the right length 8.8 zinc plated bolts. If you cut them then obviously you'll remove the coating and they will rust. Nyloc wise if you can find the right torque to do them up to with normal nuts then they shouldn't really come undone.
I couldn't find one of those little smiley faces geeky enough to end this post on...
I couldn't find one of those little smiley faces geeky enough to end this post on...
I ordered one finally! when I called back the guy I spoke to ordered it no questions asked lol Going to fit it this weekend.
I got one of these off Fleabay -
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SEAT-LEON-STRUT-TOWER-STRESS-BRACE-BAR_W0QQitemZ160230454849QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160230454849&_trkparms=72%3A984|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Pretty good to be honest at not a bad price. Doesn't go all the way around the top of the strut but does the job all the same......??
Mr.Wookie,
how does the one off ebay perform? did you notice a difference? i like Ebay! i think i am addicted!
Mr.Wookie,
how does the one off ebay perform? did you notice a difference? i like Ebay! i think i am addicted!
Yea works really well for me. Had expensive ones on other cars and this works just the same as the more expensive option.
Give it a go and let me know what you reckon.
I have a pair of front strut braces from Wiechers (upper strut brace and lower brace/tie bar) on my car, and they are useful since, as we know, the subframe on Golf Mk4 based cars is flexible (S3/TT version has also rear braces).
Will the S3 lower brace provide supplemental strengthening of the subframe, since it's only inches apart from the Wiechers tie bar?
S3 brace fits at the middle of subframe, Wiechers brace at the front, on the LCA mounting bolts.
How much does a S3 brace weigh?
Thank you,
~Nautilus
Will the S3 lower brace provide supplemental strengthening of the subframe, since it's only inches apart from the Wiechers tie bar?
S3 brace fits at the middle of subframe, Wiechers brace at the front, on the LCA mounting bolts.
How much does a S3 brace weigh?
Thank you,
~Nautilus
Just had my strut brace fitted today and wondered if anyone else with a diesel engine gets any vibration from the engine cover??
Tubular strut braces, either upper (between shock absorber towers) or lower (at the front of the subframe) will resonate. Which is natural as they are springy metal enclosures under tension.
Resonance will increase the noise and vibration by a small amount, which is more noticeable in Diesel powered cars. People say vibration means the chassis is more rigid, but it's the other way around, the bar becomes a spring. If the bar is aluminum, which has far less elastic modulus than steel, vibration is less, but still present.
To decrease vibration and noise in the cabin, the strut bar has to be dampened. This way, from a spring, it becomes a damper.
The simple solution is to drill a 6mm hole in the bar and fill it about 3/4 with grease using a grease gun. The seal the hole with a small bolt. The whole job takes less than 1 hour.
Example:
Rear tubular strut bar, between rear shock absorbers' towers, aluminum, less than 2 lbs bar weight. (Once fitted, the rear frame near the back seat turns into a trapeze from the original U-shape.)
Used a smartphone and the Vibrations! app to measure.
Tap the bar with a small rubber mallet, it generates a mechanical vibration of 12.4Hz.
Drilled a small hole, screw a grease nipple, filled the bar with 140°C bearing grease (about 1 lbs weight), removed the nipple, sealed the hole with a small bolt. Tapped again with same rubber mallet, the frequency of the vibration dropped to ~5Hz and loudness was far less. The difference could also be heard while running on rough ground.
Did the same thing with front subframe rear braces (Audi TT tubular steel). The slight metallic buzz heard at 5000rpm in 2nd gear decreased in intensity to nearly inaudible, decreased in frequency to a deep whirr.
Cost: 2 tubes of grease + 1 nipple + 1 bolt = 5 GBP
Resonance will increase the noise and vibration by a small amount, which is more noticeable in Diesel powered cars. People say vibration means the chassis is more rigid, but it's the other way around, the bar becomes a spring. If the bar is aluminum, which has far less elastic modulus than steel, vibration is less, but still present.
To decrease vibration and noise in the cabin, the strut bar has to be dampened. This way, from a spring, it becomes a damper.
The simple solution is to drill a 6mm hole in the bar and fill it about 3/4 with grease using a grease gun. The seal the hole with a small bolt. The whole job takes less than 1 hour.
Example:
Rear tubular strut bar, between rear shock absorbers' towers, aluminum, less than 2 lbs bar weight. (Once fitted, the rear frame near the back seat turns into a trapeze from the original U-shape.)
Used a smartphone and the Vibrations! app to measure.
Tap the bar with a small rubber mallet, it generates a mechanical vibration of 12.4Hz.
Drilled a small hole, screw a grease nipple, filled the bar with 140°C bearing grease (about 1 lbs weight), removed the nipple, sealed the hole with a small bolt. Tapped again with same rubber mallet, the frequency of the vibration dropped to ~5Hz and loudness was far less. The difference could also be heard while running on rough ground.
Did the same thing with front subframe rear braces (Audi TT tubular steel). The slight metallic buzz heard at 5000rpm in 2nd gear decreased in intensity to nearly inaudible, decreased in frequency to a deep whirr.
Cost: 2 tubes of grease + 1 nipple + 1 bolt = 5 GBP
Can i ask where you are ordering your parts from as audi northeast wants £99.64 for the upper strut 8L9-805-629A
just ebay it mate your find them on there,the quid tt ones fit as well mine was from a tt
There is some factory bracing around the strut towers in the Leon Mk 1:
However, there is a place where a bracing bar is sorely needed and nobody makes it yet: between the frame rails, below the car, just behind the front subframe.
There are 2 drain holes in the frame rails, made by the factory and closed with plastic plugs:
The holes are in the hardest and sturdiest place on the frame rail, in 2 layers of steel welded one above the other. With a bit of drilling to match the hole shape, is not very hard to fit into them 2 rivet nuts, either M12 or M16.
Once the rivet nuts are fixed and pulled with a bolt to expand and fit inside, a bar can be bolted to tie the frame rails together:
I've used a square section tube from the hardware store, 30x10mm with 1.5mm walls. The tube had been painted and foam-filled to prevent water ingress and rust.
+ Steering feels even tighter than before (the car already had strut brace, 3 x subframe braces, plenty of suspension mods);
+ Less noise inside the cabin;
+ Less vibration from the engine;
+ Less judder on small hard bumps like railway crossing. Even with all suspension mods and FSD dampers, the difference in judder can be felt;
+ Better braking. This has no simple explanation. But the car seems to brake a tiny fraction of a second quicker, and it wanders less under braking.
- Torque steer and tramlining / gentle wander of the steering on bumpy tarmac can be felt more than before.
However, there is a place where a bracing bar is sorely needed and nobody makes it yet: between the frame rails, below the car, just behind the front subframe.
There are 2 drain holes in the frame rails, made by the factory and closed with plastic plugs:
The holes are in the hardest and sturdiest place on the frame rail, in 2 layers of steel welded one above the other. With a bit of drilling to match the hole shape, is not very hard to fit into them 2 rivet nuts, either M12 or M16.
Once the rivet nuts are fixed and pulled with a bolt to expand and fit inside, a bar can be bolted to tie the frame rails together:
I've used a square section tube from the hardware store, 30x10mm with 1.5mm walls. The tube had been painted and foam-filled to prevent water ingress and rust.
+ Steering feels even tighter than before (the car already had strut brace, 3 x subframe braces, plenty of suspension mods);
+ Less noise inside the cabin;
+ Less vibration from the engine;
+ Less judder on small hard bumps like railway crossing. Even with all suspension mods and FSD dampers, the difference in judder can be felt;
+ Better braking. This has no simple explanation. But the car seems to brake a tiny fraction of a second quicker, and it wanders less under braking.
- Torque steer and tramlining / gentle wander of the steering on bumpy tarmac can be felt more than before.
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PS The reality behind braces:
There were a few guys who did autocross and got somehow the idea to test the twisting of strut towers and other chassis members on their autocross car.
Their conclusion was a bit weird at first sight, but logical: twisting on a stock car is actually very small and the brace limits it very little, in the error range of the sensor used for measurement. Their primary contribution is to handling (or feel). Handling meant in their mind how the car feels to the driver, how well it communicates what is going on to them, and also how stable it is - especially at the limit of grip.
Reason: all steel chassis frames are springy by their own construction. Steel is a springy material. (Aluminium is also springy, but far less. The only material which can be made truly stiff is carbon fiber.)
So a strut brace will not be stiff enough, it's just a very very hard leaf spring. You can hit it with a rubber mallet and it vibrates. If a 3 lbs mallet vibrates it, the 3000 lbs of the loaded car hitting a bump is far above.
By adding braces at the strut towers, at the subframe and in other strategic places, wo do not "stiffen the car", but actually increasing the natural frequency of the giant spring which is the bodywork. This translates in less vibration at ordinary road speeds, more predictable handling and so on.
Even if we made a space frame (like the roll cage in a racing car), this just moves the spring rate even higher. And higher. It never goes away, no matter what.
There were a few guys who did autocross and got somehow the idea to test the twisting of strut towers and other chassis members on their autocross car.
Their conclusion was a bit weird at first sight, but logical: twisting on a stock car is actually very small and the brace limits it very little, in the error range of the sensor used for measurement. Their primary contribution is to handling (or feel). Handling meant in their mind how the car feels to the driver, how well it communicates what is going on to them, and also how stable it is - especially at the limit of grip.
Reason: all steel chassis frames are springy by their own construction. Steel is a springy material. (Aluminium is also springy, but far less. The only material which can be made truly stiff is carbon fiber.)
So a strut brace will not be stiff enough, it's just a very very hard leaf spring. You can hit it with a rubber mallet and it vibrates. If a 3 lbs mallet vibrates it, the 3000 lbs of the loaded car hitting a bump is far above.
By adding braces at the strut towers, at the subframe and in other strategic places, wo do not "stiffen the car", but actually increasing the natural frequency of the giant spring which is the bodywork. This translates in less vibration at ordinary road speeds, more predictable handling and so on.
Even if we made a space frame (like the roll cage in a racing car), this just moves the spring rate even higher. And higher. It never goes away, no matter what.
These is a company that makes the kits to stiffen up the underside.. I'll try and find the link and diagrams.
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