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Old 09-05-2017, 21:44   #1
asthpsw
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Service Indicator

I wonder if anyone has mastered the complexities of the Service Indicator when set for variable / Longlife oil etc ? Is a 2009 140 BHP CR TDI. I know there is a sensor for "Oil Condition" (Had various explainations on how this works...for instance Optical sensor to see how black the oil is or another theory is to see how the oil handles temperature etc).

Anyway my issue is that I had it serviced back in Feb2017 and used Castrol Edge. I had an op & vehicle was laid up for 2.5 months. The indicator hadn't set itself before being laid up (which is usual, it takes about 300 miles to shows "Miles to go" & "Days left".

After I started using it week before last the 300 miles or so hadn't been met but last week I did manage to get it to 300 miles or so after Service carried out & it first came up with 17100 miles ......so it lost about 1700 miles below what it should be.........then over the next few days it gradually crept up till yesterday it got to 18500 which was about right. Most of the journeys were M27 at speed limit. Then today I did a trip and it was 18300, I drove back along M27 about 12 miles and it dropped to 15600 miles to next service yet it has only done 350 miles since service.

Does the indicator calculation /Analysis /alogritham etc take time to settle down because at this rate I'll be having a service in a couple of months !


Thanks,

Paul
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Old 09-05-2017, 23:07   #2
Speed-FReek
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There are some parameters stored in the instrument cluster. If you have access to VCDS then it is possible to see what they are. Below is an extract of the Extended Service Interval and TOG sensor data from my instrument cluster straight after a service had been done and the flexible long life service counters had been reset.

The "ESI: time from inspection" value increments on a daily basis as does the "ESI: distance driven from inspection" value as you clock up more miles. This coupled with the "ESI: thermal load" and "ESI: soot entry" values which will change based on the analysis done by the TOG sensor all drive the algorithm which displays the distance and time for when the next service is due.

The fact that your car has been laid up for a while may be having an effect on the behaviour you are seeing (i.e. 70+ days since the service but only a few hundred miles covered in that time). I would be very surprised if the mileage value carries on plummeting by huge amounts day on day, or if it continues to jump about. I would expect it to start levelling out and settling down as the weeks go on. If I was you I would switch away from that screen for a while and just forget about the values it is showing. Then have a look at it again in 3 or 4 weeks time.

Code:
(1)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Status ESI or SID,ESI or SID on 
(2)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Selection of ESI or SID,Extended Service Intervals (ESI) 
(3)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Oil level,Oil level evaluation 
(4)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Oil pressure,dynamic oil pressure 
(5)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Remote clock receiver,without remote clock receiver 
(6)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-Oil quality,good oil quality 
(7)-ESI: Coding of Service Interval Extension (SIE)-TOG,Oil level thermal sensor connected to instrument cluster 
ESI: distance driven from inspection,0 km
ESI: maximum value km-driving distance/inspection,30000 km
ESI: maximum value of time between inspections,744 d
ESI: minimum value km-driving distance/inspection,15000 km
ESI: minimum value of time between inspections,744 d
ESI: oil quality,good oil quality 
ESI: Resetting ESI,Reset 
ESI: soot entry,0 km
ESI: thermal load,0 km
ESI: time from inspection,0 d

Last edited by Speed-FReek; 09-05-2017 at 23:29.
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Old 11-05-2017, 14:33   #3
asthpsw
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Speed- FReek, thank you for that explanation. In all the years I've enquired this is the only one I've understood ! Thank again and the data helped further in the understanding. Can't understand the "Thermal load" being in km though. Out of interest how does it determine "good quality oil". Or soot loading ? As I say this is only for interests sake.

Regarding the data picked up by the TOG especially oil temperature is this available in the MFD ? Or any light display....seems if this is being "sensed" not to use it as a safety feature to the driver (ie excessive oil temperature)

As you say I'll. Let it settle (it keeps jumping now +/- 100 miles but only around the 15000 mark) but it is very interesting to know all the parameters it uses and how the ECU gets the data and sensors used.

Thanks again

Paul
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:22   #4
Speed-FReek
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I believe the "Thermal Load" value is the total number of kilometres that the car has been driven while the oil has been above a certain temperature threshold. That seems to be the case from analysis I have done on this parameter value as the car covers more miles since the service was done. So this means that the distance shown for this parameter would exclude any distance covered while the engine was still cold and not yet at or above the threshold temperature value (don't ask me what that threshold value is because I have no idea).

I believe the "Soot Loading" comes from communication with the engine ECU and is the distance driven since the the last DPF regeneration occurred. Again, from the limited analysis I have done, this appears to be the case.

The "Good Quality Oil" value is set by the dealer diagnostic equipment after a service has been performed. The value will be set to either "Poor Oil Quality" or "Good Oil Quality". These values don't actually indicate the current condition of the oil. They are just settings to tell the instrument cluster whether the car is running on a fixed service schedule of 12 months / 365 days (denoted by the setting description "Poor Quality Oil"), or if it is running on a flexible long life service schedule whereby the car will use the G266 TOG sensor to dynamically determine when the next service will be due (denoted by the setting description "Good Quality Oil"). You can also use VCDS to switch a car between the two different types of service schedules (see my "how-to" guide HERE).

On some of the Golf Mk6 cars, the oil temperature is available natively in the MFD, but I think this must be controlled by specific software or data configuration in the EEPROM of the instrument cluster of those particular cars because I have yet to find a way to natively show the Oil Temperature in the MFD of my Mk2 Leon. This is what some of the Golf Mk6 owners see...



If you want the ability to see oil temperature in the MFD then an alternative solution is to install a PolarFIS module. This can show the oil temperature as well as a whole host of other engine sensor/parameter data values.

Last edited by Speed-FReek; 12-05-2017 at 02:50.
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Old 17-06-2017, 22:03   #5
asthpsw
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speed FReak, just wanted to say thanks again. Your explanation is spot on and shows up all the others that thought somehow the "sensor" was doing some chemical analysis ! When infact it's a very simple algorithm.
Mine is now notching over exactly 100 mile increments from when it was serviced.
Thanks again,
Paul
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Old 18-06-2017, 00:24   #6
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No probs

Since my last set of posts in this thread, I found out a bit more info on the algorithm which I subsequently posted in another thread. If you want to see a visual representation of the algorithm, then take a look at the last paragraph and accompanying two diagrams underneath it in the following post...
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/show...78#post4723778

The "Thermal Oil Load" and "Engine Oil Soot Load" maps shown in the last diagram aren't calculated, but are predetermined maps stored in the ECM that have been pre-calculated based on lab test conditions. Based on engine speed, engine load, oil temperature, and engine RPM, the algorithm then feeds off of these two maps as it continually recalculates the time/distance to next service.
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