timing chain question for 1.2?

melton1

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timing chain

hey,

iv just been reading up on here about the timing chain 'slipping' on the 1.2 ibiza's (sounds like a common problem), if i got my chain replaced would it stop this from happening or is there something i could do to stop this happening to me? I really dont want the hefty bill.

Cheers Neal

there is a repair kit modified tensioner and guides.....
 

Cupra R

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Dec 5, 2001
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I know it's resurrecting an old thread, but could someone please confirm for me if a 1.2 12v 3cylinder engine that would be fitted to a MK4 Ibiza 2002 be chain driven for the timing and not via a Cambelt?

I'm 99.9% sure but just want clarification.

Just in process of buying one.
 

seremotors

Dave the Parts Manager
Mar 11, 2008
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im surprised to hear all these recommendations to fit timing chain kits. We have had loads of cars with this problem at our dealership but 99% of the time all thats needed is the tensioner 03E109507S (£18) and the guide 03E109469 (£3) You would be very unlucky to need sprockets or chains. After all, its the tensioner is the culprit . . . . . . .
 

Cupra R

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Dec 5, 2001
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im surprised to hear all these recommendations to fit timing chain kits. We have had loads of cars with this problem at our dealership but 99% of the time all thats needed is the tensioner 03E109507S (£18) and the guide 03E109469 (£3) You would be very unlucky to need sprockets or chains. After all, its the tensioner is the culprit . . . . . . .

Would this be a realatively easy job to perform to change the tensioner and guide? Thinking of doing it to my 02 plate Ibiza, just as an insurance policy.
 

seremotors

Dave the Parts Manager
Mar 11, 2008
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Sorry its not really a diy job. Even our SEAT guys take a couple of hours or more plus you need special tools although I can supply these quite cheaply. If your car is 02 it may well have had modified parts already.
 

Cupra R

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Dec 5, 2001
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Sorry its not really a diy job. Even our SEAT guys take a couple of hours or more plus you need special tools although I can supply these quite cheaply. If your car is 02 it may well have had modified parts already.

Thanks for the quick reply, Is there anyway of knowing for sure if it has had the modified parts fitted?
 

RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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only by stripping down and checking - if you have it down that far, may as well do the lot anyway

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I would have thought that Seat dealers would either update their service records or add a note into the cars service book so that this work/improvement was recorded - is this not how its done?
 

DFMM

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Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I would have thought that Seat dealers would either update their service records or add a note into the cars service book so that this work/improvement was recorded - is this not how its done?

This year, after finding out about this chain problem, just weeks after buying my Son a '03 Reg 1.2s IBIZA, I had a new chain, tensioner, and guide fitted at his SEAT dealership, along with an oil & filter change,+ air filter and pollen filter, at a cost of £376 inc VaT. Unfortunately the rebuild of the auxialliaries drive system was insecure, allowing the belt to fail, with gross knock-on effects, including the new chain jumping the exhaust cam sprocket, bending all 6 valves.
The damage was covered by the garage ( more than £1000 I guess ) , but I had to have my Son towed by the A.A., and bought a year's cover, as my confidence is at a low ebb.
He has since had the ignition coil-pack problems, outside the extended 5-year cover period, so the first cost £70 at SEAT, and I installed the other 2 revised ones myself, for £54 the pair.
Hot on the heels of this job, the top LAMBDA sensor failed, but the dealer did a special price on this, so fair-do's.
Courtesy cars were excellent, and this may have something to do with the dealer being also the SKODA and AUDI dealers covering a large area.

The MoT done prior to purchase required a new front spring and a rear bush on the other side lower wish-bone, and I had to put out £176 to have the seller fit pairs, to ensure safe handling, as the salesman failed to understand such simple logic, but I had experienced the same attitude with a 6-month old Renault which had one solid rear shocker. I had 2 new GABRIELS fitted for the value of the RENAULT credit-note.
The car has had a new SEAT radio/CD and a door-lock this year by the seller, and other work for warranty included a battery, rear wiper motor, and the early recall for the crank-shaft end-seal, plus the usual wash-wipe pipe clips. No door seal or wind noises.
Stone-chip damage is typical of today's water-based paints, so use a good car-wash that stops rust, and get the touch-up kit.
Shock-absorbers still good at 45,000 miles, sounds great and corners flat, with germanic front seats;-- good bolsters. Exhaust back-box will be £130 soon.
 

Rory101

Newbie
Oct 11, 2005
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This year, after finding out about this chain problem, just weeks after buying my Son a '03 Reg 1.2s IBIZA, I had a new chain, tensioner, and guide fitted at his SEAT dealership, along with an oil & filter change,+ air filter and pollen filter, at a cost of £376 inc VaT. Unfortunately the rebuild of the auxialliaries drive system was insecure, allowing the belt to fail, with gross knock-on effects, including the new chain jumping the exhaust cam sprocket, bending all 6 valves.
The damage was covered by the garage ( more than £1000 I guess ) , but I had to have my Son towed by the A.A., and bought a year's cover, as my confidence is at a low ebb.
He has since had the ignition coil-pack problems, outside the extended 5-year cover period, so the first cost £70 at SEAT, and I installed the other 2 revised ones myself, for £54 the pair.
Hot on the heels of this job, the top LAMBDA sensor failed, but the dealer did a special price on this, so fair-do's.
Courtesy cars were excellent, and this may have something to do with the dealer being also the SKODA and AUDI dealers covering a large area.

The MoT done prior to purchase required a new front spring and a rear bush on the other side lower wish-bone, and I had to put out £176 to have the seller fit pairs, to ensure safe handling, as the salesman failed to understand such simple logic, but I had experienced the same attitude with a 6-month old Renault which had one solid rear shocker. I had 2 new GABRIELS fitted for the value of the RENAULT credit-note.
The car has had a new SEAT radio/CD and a door-lock this year by the seller, and other work for warranty included a battery, rear wiper motor, and the early recall for the crank-shaft end-seal, plus the usual wash-wipe pipe clips. No door seal or wind noises.
Stone-chip damage is typical of today's water-based paints, so use a good car-wash that stops rust, and get the touch-up kit.
Shock-absorbers still good at 45,000 miles, sounds great and corners flat, with germanic front seats;-- good bolsters. Exhaust back-box will be £130 soon.

Good grief - I really feel for you. I really couldn't be done with all that stuff - years ago, maybe, but not now. So I helped my daughter buy a new 54reg 1.2S.

It has had coil failures twice - once at home and the other while in mid-Wales, but has otherwise been OK.

However I was pretty miffed that it failed its 4yr MOT at 34K miles on a worn front suspension bush and uneven rear brakes. Tried to get the dealer to ask SEAT to cover the bush replacement but they wouldn't have any of it. Not sure if they were real faults or the dealer just scamming us.
 

RUM4MO

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Jun 4, 2008
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In general these Fabia/Polo/Ibiza cars seem to continue disappoint their first or second owners. When I bought my wife a brand new Polo back in late 2002 it seemed okay, but within 4 years it had robbed me badly (1.4 16V 75PS), ARB broke - front spring broke - TCA rear bushes torn - coil pack failures. The list goes on and on - certainly not the rugged little car that VW boasted about. Now I would not consider buying any other small VW car again - they are all just Skoda rubbish design and material and manufacture where it matters most. I did not do much better when I suggested that my daughter bought a second hand 6K Ibiza - they rust like its going out of fashion! - Oh so does the Polo in the odd middle of panel places with no evidance of paint damage!!
 

DFMM

Guest
Good grief - I really feel for you. I really couldn't be done with all that stuff - years ago, maybe, but not now. So I helped my daughter buy a new 54reg 1.2S.

It has had coil failures twice - once at home and the other while in mid-Wales, but has otherwise been OK.

However I was pretty miffed that it failed its 4yr MOT at 34K miles on a worn front suspension bush and uneven rear brakes. Tried to get the dealer to ask SEAT to cover the bush replacement but they wouldn't have any of it. Not sure if they were real faults or the dealer just scamming us.

Your daughter's 54 reg 1.2s probably has the revised ( longer ) chain tensioner and guide plastic parts which were brought in in 2004 to control the cam-chain better, in the hope that chain failures will be a thing of the past.
Last year's revision of the coil-pack design seems to have had no complaints, as yet.
The suspension bushes will plague all owners, repeatedly, although the new MK 5 is a completely new chassis, and should be fully sorted.
I have the brakes on my own YARIS D4-D stripped and cleaned, etc, at the annual service, as road-salt is applied heavily in my home county, and I have found my front calipers to be dragging mid-summer, but a bit of hard braking can help them slide in their frames, until the autumn service, for a proper clean.
I have the rear drums off also for cleaning, etc, and hand-brake adjustment, then straight into the MoT.

By the way I am a 59 year-old retired metallurgist, with a major family history in the motor trade, dating back to my Grand-Father selling new Austin 7's, followed by my father and his brother both spending all their lives in the trade, and 2 cousins entering the trade, but getting away from the hands-on.
My Father trained in book-keeping, and that helped him administer ( wangle ) warranty cover that most salesmen would just have been obstructive over ; just shear laziness.
If I had known about the VAG fall from its pedestal, I would have pointed my Son in the direction of a 1.25L 16V FORD FIESTA, which has a PUMA family engine, developed by YAMAHA.
I could certainly have done without all the grief noted above
 

Rory101

Newbie
Oct 11, 2005
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By the way ...

Thanks for the background. I'm an electrical engineer and I used to work for Ford Motor Co, but on the production side, designing machinery to make cars, rather than on cars themselves.

If it hadn't been for the MOT failure (my first ever), I'd be reasonable happy with Ibiza, and my daughter loves it. I like the high window line and the fact that it's a reasonable size, so it makes me think it's a reasonably safe car on the fast A roads we have around here (rural Cheshire).

For reliability (touch wood) my wife's Jazz just sailed through its 5th year MOT, and hasn't had a single fault, not even a bulb has blown. Unfortunately the youngsters don't like the Jazz image.

My other daughter has a 1yr old 1.1 3cyl Mitsubishi Colt - that has an altogether nicer engine, but it's a flimsy feeling car (they are pretty cheap and I guess you get what you pay for). How it holds up for 5yrs or so remains to be seen.
 

Ron T

Guest
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I was quite concerned to read about all the timing chain problems as I thought an engine without a toothed rubber belt would be a better bet in terms of reliability. My Ibiza is a 53 plate 1.2 with 44k miles - can anyone tell me when the modification to the tensioner / chain came in and if my car is likely to be okay. Or do you recommend changing the chain anyway ? Thanks for any advice ...... Ron T
 

RUM4MO

Active Member
Jun 4, 2008
7,784
983
South Scotland
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I was quite concerned to read about all the timing chain problems as I thought an engine without a toothed rubber belt would be a better bet in terms of reliability. My Ibiza is a 53 plate 1.2 with 44k miles - can anyone tell me when the modification to the tensioner / chain came in and if my car is likely to be okay. Or do you recommend changing the chain anyway ? Thanks for any advice ...... Ron T


Try checking the "similar posts" listing at the bottom of this page - and maybe extend that to try using the search function. I'm sure that a rough production period and chassis number was listed in one of the threads. Also, I'd check up with your local Seat dealer's workshop as surely any work like this sort of upgrade should be recorded somewhere - even although Seat did not pay for it or your car is out of warranty. When I asked our local Seat garage about previous repairs to a 6K Ibiza my daughter bought - not at time of sale but a few months later when it was in getting a 4 wheel realignment, they offered all previous, mainly during warranty work carried out on the car - and it had not been done by them but a Seat dealer in Liverpool. If you don't ask you will never find out!
 

DFMM

Guest
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I was quite concerned to read about all the timing chain problems as I thought an engine without a toothed rubber belt would be a better bet in terms of reliability. My Ibiza is a 53 plate 1.2 with 44k miles - can anyone tell me when the modification to the tensioner / chain came in and if my car is likely to be okay. Or do you recommend changing the chain anyway ? Thanks for any advice ...... Ron T

Most people would expect chain systems to be reliable, and as a Toyota owner I expect mine to be bullet-proof. However both small and large VAG engines give chain troubles ( the 1.8T as well as the 1.2 3 cylinder units )
I have a near neighbour whose 1.2 sx IBIZA broke its cam-chain at 15,000 miles, well within factory warranty. he now has just 35,000 miles on it. At the time, the '03 reg cars had only just started having this reputation building up, so he had a bit of difficulty getting a new engine out of them, but now even exgratia payments are being made to owners who suffer burst chains, so long as a SEAT dealer does the work.
More than £1000 of damage will result from bent valves, so at least get the revised chain-tensioner and guide parts fitted, and chain if worn.
The more complete kit replaces damaged sprockets and hydraulic thrust capsule also, at a cost of £110, parts only.
Labour costs for chain work amounts to about 3.5 hours, without any valve damage, so £350 - £450 is not unusual.
The only new parts are the plastic ones which control chain-slap, and these longer ones were put to use in 2004. Most dealers say that "look after it and it will give good service".
By that I reckon 6-monthly oil changes with MOBIL 1, should keep that chain-pushing capsule doing its job. KWIK-FIT charge £45 for an oil/filter change using this oil ( 5W30 ), by appointment, so they can get the stuff in.
A lot of careful owners have more than 60,000 miles, and a few even 85K or 94K, but are exceptions to the rule.
Most furum contributors reckon on 45K as the typical time for chain trouble, but sometimes no valves get bent, if just a couple of teeth get jumped.
Some bent-valve incidents can cost 1.5 grand, using a VAG exchange head, full chain kit, gaskets, and labour. Even with a bit of a contribution from VAG, it will hurt!
 

Ron T

Guest
Thanks for the replies, it looks like I've got a bit more digging and reading to do. I thought when we bought the car that it sounded a little bit "agricultural" but was led to believe that that was normal. I've e-mailed Seat UK customer service with our chasis number to try and determine if our car is potentially at risk, but will also take your advice regards contacting our local dealer as I know it was originally supplied by them and serviced there up until December '06. I took on the routine oil changes & maintenance myself from Dec '07 as the car was out of warranty and the dealer charges were a bit expensive and they didn't fill me with confidence regards their capabilities. I'm a fairly proficient and capable DIY mechanic, so do you think the replacement is something I could undertake myself. Thanks again for your help. Ron T
 

DFMM

Guest
Thanks for the replies, it looks like I've got a bit more digging and reading to do. I thought when we bought the car that it sounded a little bit "agricultural" but was led to believe that that was normal. I've e-mailed Seat UK customer service with our chasis number to try and determine if our car is potentially at risk, but will also take your advice regards contacting our local dealer as I know it was originally supplied by them and serviced there up until December '06. I took on the routine oil changes & maintenance myself from Dec '07 as the car was out of warranty and the dealer charges were a bit expensive and they didn't fill me with confidence regards their capabilities. I'm a fairly proficient and capable DIY mechanic, so do you think the replacement is something I could undertake myself. Thanks again for your help. Ron T

Some DIYers on this forum have coped with the need for a few specialist tools, bought from a firm called "Bickets". Mostly, a "Y" shaped tool made of steel plate, keeps the chain-wheels in the correct orientation, when setting-up the crank/cam sprockets, while you fit the chain on. I think this may also be needed when unbolting the old sprockets. Contact the firm for info.
I think the tools cost about the same as the full chain-kit.
My son's '03 reg 1.2s has never sounded agricuntural, it idles smoother at 800 RPM, but you may need to use the air-con to get the revs up. A new top LAMBDA sensor has also raised revs on idle.
 
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