ARL running issues acfer installing hybrid

smokeyjoe

Active Member
Apr 6, 2009
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n.ireland boy :)
Hi again folks I know ive been posting alot lately I'm not spaming.

Anyway just fitted a new turbo to my car last night its basically an 1856 hybrid off xman got it fitted last night there car was previously was running 184bhp and 340lbft the car drove excellently lad night no lad ay all really.

Tho morning went to the shop and a few bits done the usual morning routine fluids yres then started the car up went in had my breakfast must have been running 20min.
Once I started driving I could notice no power at all down low the weird thing is if you drive half throttle to about 2500rpm then then mad I I goes like a scalded cat.

But if you mash the throttle right away from idle nothing happens will only build about 0.600nb with lots and I mean lots of black smoke filled by huge what sounds like injector rattle the car will do this in any gear if you if you start from 2500rpm then the car Hope I have explained well enough also I unplugged the vacuum pipe that goes to the actuator you get the usual deep tone once you do that the cars revs alot freer in every gear little bit of lag but you can stomp on it on any gear and once n75 valves been disconnected car behaves fine.


On a side note if you do boot it at say 1500 rpm and you start to hear the clatter you come completely off throttle and 100% on again 3 or 4 times in quick succession can hear the mote change slightly and car takes off also.

I have no clue what it could be hopefully some of you guys can chime

The car in question is 2005 seat Leon cd 150bhp tdi
 

Dan FR

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Nov 14, 2013
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It sounds like the VNT hasn't been set correctly, and the vanes are closing too much, effectively choking the engine at low RPM until the N75 opens them. Have you data logged the car?

This is just guesswork from the symptoms you describe mind, but a few turns of the stopscrew and map adjustment will help wonders. My cousin recently fitted an Xman GT1749 hybrid to his PD150, and on a standard map the car was the laggiest most horrid thing to drive until it got to about 3500rpm! With some mapping tweaks I managed to get this down to 2500rpm and it goes well, but the VNT needs adjusting on it to improve low down response a little further

Have you contacted Xman?
 

smokeyjoe

Active Member
Apr 6, 2009
103
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n.ireland boy :)
It sounds like the VNT hasn't been set correctly, and the vanes are closing too much, effectively choking the engine at low RPM until the N75 opens them. Have you data logged the car?

This is just guesswork from the symptoms you describe mind, but a few turns of the stopscrew and map adjustment will help wonders. My cousin recently fitted an Xman GT1749 hybrid to his PD150, and on a standard map the car was the laggiest most horrid thing to drive until it got to about 3500rpm! With some mapping tweaks I managed to get this down to 2500rpm and it goes well, but the VNT needs adjusting on it to improve low down response a little further

Have you contacted Xman?


That was my thinking to Dan because weirdly when I unplug the n75 valve the vanes basically go 100% open and car drives fine just a bit more lag even with vanes open the turbo still boost around 3000rpm or slightly before.

Unfortunately I don't have vagcom regret not getting it to but ordered a vacuum tester off ebay so going to test actuator with that it should be 3-4 I inhg to starts to move then 16inhg to fully closed?
Thing is i have a map based SL in my map instead of MAF so basically if the boosts ****ed the fuelings fooked to do you reckon id be better reverting back to MAF based until I get boost sorted?
 

Dan FR

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Nov 14, 2013
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VCDS is 100% worth getting and is the only way you're going to figure this out. Don't know if VCDS Lite will work on your car, but the full clones are silly cheap nowadays, especially for older outdated version which are perfect for your car

A Vacuum pump will help you determine if the actuator is weak or not holding vacuum, but this is not your issue. Actuator is doing its job and closing the vanes as requested by the ECU

Is this a DIY map? Why have you gone for a MAP based limited rather than MAF based? I much prefer working with a MAF limited on standard or small hybrid turbos. I'd sling a MAF limited stage 1 type file on there and see how it goes, as without data it is and always will be pure guess work
 

smokeyjoe

Active Member
Apr 6, 2009
103
0
n.ireland boy :)
VCDS is 100% worth getting and is the only way you're going to figure this out. Don't know if VCDS Lite will work on your car, but the full clones are silly cheap nowadays, especially for older outdated version which are perfect for your car

A Vacuum pump will help you determine if the actuator is weak or not holding vacuum, but this is not your issue. Actuator is doing its job and closing the vanes as requested by the ECU

Is this a DIY map? Why have you gone for a MAP based limited rather than MAF based? I much prefer working with a MAF limited on standard or small hybrid turbos. I'd sling a MAF limited stage 1 type file on there and see how it goes, as without data it is and always will be pure guess work



Yeah DIY map mate ive been doing if quite a wile in my area only reason for going map based was to completely remove MAF and delete dtcs and run a huge intake had the map down to a t wi try the old turbo have since installed a stock map no clatter from the I injectors and no smoke but same scenario no boost actually the car will rev out past 4k but struggle as if the exhaust was blocked but if you lift off at say 2k or even 2.5k and full throttle again itl rev and pull fine.
 

Dan FR

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Nov 14, 2013
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How the hell do you write a DIY map, especially a MAP based one, without VCDS or any kind of data logging? you really need to buy it mate

Still screams of huge EMP, data logging boost and fuelling would help understand what is going on, as would using VCDS to cycle the N75 to see how much difference/movement the vanes have
 

smokeyjoe

Active Member
Apr 6, 2009
103
0
n.ireland boy :)
How the hell do you write a DIY map, especially a MAP based one, without VCDS or any kind of data logging? you really need to buy it mate

Still screams of huge EMP, data logging boost and fuelling would help understand what is going on, as would using VCDS to cycle the N75 to see how much difference/movement the vanes have


About 10 maps to get the smoke levels right left the boost axis alone to so anything over 1bar is max fuelling it really is easy now that I have the map based limiter complete I use that as a base for every map based file then Taylor it to the customers needs but nowadays everyone loves this smoke thing so no one ever cares if it's smoke free I can send you a snap shot of my map based limiter to compare to the way you do it if you like.

I think so to I spoke with the guy I got the turbo off and like you he recons vanes to closed high emp although he's not heard of this particular scenario he reckons it could do with couple turns in on the stop screw but stresses that vagcom or atleast mytivac is needed so just gona wait for them to arrive light throttle with no boost until I get to 2.5k is going to be the norm for a few days.
 
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Dan FR

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Nov 14, 2013
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Different methods I suppose. I can't work without data, and don't like flat fuelling over X amount of boost. I set huge headroom in the map using the MAF limiter, and then I get as much fuel as I need depending on the boost I request, I can up the boost and then smoke limiter is only tweaked to add or remove a little fuel as I go.

MAP based will need to be totally rewritten with a different turbo, as 1 bar of boost with this turbo will involve significantly more air volume than with the old turbo, so would need more fuel

You could try altering the map so that the N75DC isn't at 20-25% at lower RPM, perhaps set it at a flat 40 or 50% as the minimum value which can then increase as needed when you get some boost...... It's mapping around the problem but it should help to identify the issue

My cousins is the total opposite, and until he bothers to adjust the stopscrew, I've had to peg the N75 at 20% (or less) until 2000rpm just to get it boosting, as the vanes are not closing anywhere near enough generate boost at low rpm
 

smokeyjoe

Active Member
Apr 6, 2009
103
0
n.ireland boy :)
Different methods I suppose. I can't work without data, and don't like flat fuelling over X amount of boost. I set huge headroom in the map using the MAF limiter, and then I get as much fuel as I need depending on the boost I request, I can up the boost and then smoke limiter is only tweaked to add or remove a little fuel as I go.

MAP based will need to be totally rewritten with a different turbo, as 1 bar of boost with this turbo will involve significantly more air volume than with the old turbo, so would need more fuel

You could try altering the map so that the N75DC isn't at 20-25% at lower RPM, perhaps set it at a flat 40 or 50% as the minimum value which can then increase as needed when you get some boost...... It's mapping around the problem but it should help to identify the issue

My cousins is the total opposite, and until he bothers to adjust the stopscrew, I've had to peg the N75 at 20% (or less) until 2000rpm just to get it boosting, as the vanes are not closing anywhere near enough generate boost at low rpm


I know what you mean Dan 95% of the work I do is to more or less stock vehicles with any of the gtb setups or normal hybrids I take a bit of extra care to Taylor the map as normally its max everything basically for them.

I see would you believe it I have tried the n75 trick trying 40% lol and works whilst at idle but the moment you try and accelerate it goes down to 20% or less i have changed both codeblocks so not sure what's going on I know these ecus have a min and max n75 map in the file somewhere but aint got a demos cor arl file so no idea were its at
 

Dan FR

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Nov 14, 2013
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You only need to change the codeblock you're currently using. N75DC depends on the boost request. It will look to the N75 map for the DC and use that initially, but if the actual still will not meet the specified, it will deviate as required. Try lowering the specified boost a lot until closer to 2000rpm or more, as most maps have an aggressive request sub 2k rpm.


That's why when logging I look to use 2nd or 3rd gear to get the N75 boost control map right, as by 4th gear, the gear is long enough for the ECU to have the time it needs to take over and correct as needed, and the N75 is only useful to control initial spool
 

smokeyjoe

Active Member
Apr 6, 2009
103
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n.ireland boy :)
You only need to change the codeblock you're currently using. N75DC depends on the boost request. It will look to the N75 map for the DC and use that initially, but if the actual still will not meet the specified, it will deviate as required. Try lowering the specified boost a lot until closer to 2000rpm or more, as most maps have an aggressive request sub 2k rpm.


That's why when logging I look to use 2nd or 3rd gear to get the N75 boost control map right, as by 4th gear, the gear is long enough for the ECU to have the time it needs to take over and correct as needed, and the N75 is only useful to control initial spool


Yeah I'm aware of that Dan I 90% of the time only tune manual codeblock except for passats or audis basically the longitudinal engines because for some reason they don't always use the manual codeblock I remember a few years ago I started noticing this I have come across a handful of cars that arnt using the manual codeblock you spend ages rating a map upload it and then wonder why there's no difference in power thankfully winols has a sync blocks option which saves you having to do everything twice.

Anyway thought I would let you know that I had some free time today so thought I would get under the car and adjust the stop screw thought it would be an easy job food me hi it's awkward to get at the lock nut and grub screw were seize together so had to screw the whole thing out adjust it and screw it back in in the end I gave it 3 full turns in which feels like a kt but totally transformed the car it now pigeons between ever gear change were as it didn't before.

But spoke to XMan and purchasing vagcom off him to make sure everything's ok.

Also I now noticed quite loud spool sound which it didn't do before.

Ps thanks for your help ban much appretiated buddy I really did think it was going to be a stab in the dark trying tome plane my problem lol.
 

Dan FR

Meth addict. Stage 2+ Yo!
Nov 14, 2013
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Ha ha sorry, reading back that came across wrong, like i was suggesting you didn't know!!!:rofl:

Glad you're getting there with the issue. Keep us updated with how you're getting on, and post up some logs/data if needed! :D
 

smokeyjoe

Active Member
Apr 6, 2009
103
0
n.ireland boy :)
Ha ha sorry, reading back that came across wrong, like i was suggesting you didn't know!!!:rofl:

Glad you're getting there with the issue. Keep us updated with how you're getting on, and post up some logs/data if needed! :D


:clap::) no worries Dan will do I'm amazed the stock intercooler and clips are holding up.
 

Dan FR

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Nov 14, 2013
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How much boost so far?

The clips and cooler are pretty good when new/unworn. Old tired engine mounts and lots of boost means the movement wears them out and they eventually start to give. Nothing a few cable ties or self-tappers wouldn't solve ;)
 

smokeyjoe

Active Member
Apr 6, 2009
103
0
n.ireland boy :)
How much boost so far?

The clips and cooler are pretty good when new/unworn. Old tired engine mounts and lots of boost means the movement wears them out and they eventually start to give. Nothing a few cable ties or self-tappers wouldn't solve ;)


Only 1.7bar at the moment so not spectacular but there is 220k on the engine and I assume the intercooler and pipes have been there from new do need a dog bone mount though there's a shocking amount of play in that.

Have done the self tapper route before in other cars very crude but does in a pinch Alison tiger seal/tec7 is good stuf for leaks only problem is getting the pipes off.
 
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