Cupra r st tracking
- Thread starter icestorm81
- Start date
So long as you go to somewhere with a Hunter machines (what VAG group should be using) it should be on their systems. I know Kwik Fit gets a bad name, but the one near me always look after me when it comes to alignment and tyres.
Before the R ST was available to buy, but had finally been confirmed, I had the wheel alignment set the same as a Cupra ST 4drive should be but with -2.0 degrees at the rear. I have fixed camber plates at the front that make it -2.5.
My understanding is that its only the camber that is different. Toe etc is all the same. So if they don;t have the figures in the system, ask them to just set the rear to -2.0 instead.
If you look at mine, you can see the "acceptable" range for the rear camber on a standard car is quite wide.
One of the things they said in the press release for the R ST, was that the standard Cupra ST had enough adjustment range in it to accommodate the changes for the R ST, so nothing is changed. Its just the front that has different parts and can't be adjusted anyway. If stock acceptable range is -1.0 to -2.0, then I can only imagine R ST would be -1.5 to -2.5.
Before the R ST was available to buy, but had finally been confirmed, I had the wheel alignment set the same as a Cupra ST 4drive should be but with -2.0 degrees at the rear. I have fixed camber plates at the front that make it -2.5.
My understanding is that its only the camber that is different. Toe etc is all the same. So if they don;t have the figures in the system, ask them to just set the rear to -2.0 instead.
If you look at mine, you can see the "acceptable" range for the rear camber on a standard car is quite wide.
One of the things they said in the press release for the R ST, was that the standard Cupra ST had enough adjustment range in it to accommodate the changes for the R ST, so nothing is changed. Its just the front that has different parts and can't be adjusted anyway. If stock acceptable range is -1.0 to -2.0, then I can only imagine R ST would be -1.5 to -2.5.
Hi All
My name is Mal and I am a new member, although I have had my Leon Cupra R ST with ABT since February 2020.
Generally, I have been very happy with the car, even though I have only done 11,800 miles, partly due to Covid lockdowns.
However, I have just found out that I have a significant problem with the tracking on the car, which unbeknown to me had actually worn the inside corners/shoulders - about 35 mm wide of both front tyres.
The front N/S tyre had completely worn away to the cords, even though all the rest of the tyre has between 4 and 5 mm of tread! Therefore I did not realise until the tyre developed a slow puncture, apparently through the cords! So very worryingly I could have had a blowout and accident at any time and was risking points on my licence without knowing it, so I am now not very happy! The O/S tyre is still legal. My wheels and tyres have not been kerbed and are all unmarked. The rear tyres both appear to be wearing evenly with about 5mm tread.
I am midde-aged and drive sensibly. There are potholes in my area and I am very careful to avoid them, but the adjustments are out about the same for both sides and so very unlikely to have been knocked out by potholes.
I have attached photos showing the excessive tyre wear, as well as the Hunter Report recently done at Kwikfit.
The problem is now that the only model and specification that is on the Hunter system is for the general 2016 onwards (5F) Cupra electronic DCC G12 model and nothing for any 2019 special editions.
As previously stated, the launch details and even the Autocar Review dated 13th March 2019 stated, ".... gets new suspension uprights to increase negative camber at both axles to two degrees; adaptive dampers for even tighter body control; 340mm Brembo front brakes; super-sticky Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres; Although the cars actually came with Continental Contact Sport 5p tyres with AO for Audi fitment, which is correct. The car also has the Brembo discs and calipers off of the RS3.
I do not think that the car was properly set up in the first place. I have tried to raise it with Seat UK, but with no luck, their site only refers you to dealers to sort queries. My two local dealers/service centres have told me that Seat UK would not entertain any warranty claim for tracking or tyres after the first three months regardless of what the settings are or should be. The dealers also told me that do not have their own tracking facilities and would be subletting to others anyway, also that they could not even look at the car for several weeks and I would have had to drive the car to them with an illegal tyre! They have also said that they cannot use the Kwikfit Hunter report as Seat will not accept third-party reports.
One of the dealers has raised a query regarding settings with Seat Uk, but that was over a week ago and I still do not have any outcome.
I have just had both front tyres replaced with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's which apparently are better tyres than the Contact Sport 5P's or 6's. I need the tracking corrected before I do too many miles on the new tyres.
My query is, what settings should be used for the car?
Can the standard settings be used or should the car be set up as a standard car, plus further adjustments for the differences i.e. "....... gets new suspension uprights to increase negative camber at both axles to two degrees"?
Hopefully someone knows.
Next step may be a letter to the Seat UK CEO, as I am unhappy about the premature wearing that could have caused a blowout and accident, let alone the points on the licence.
Many thanks
Mal
My name is Mal and I am a new member, although I have had my Leon Cupra R ST with ABT since February 2020.
Generally, I have been very happy with the car, even though I have only done 11,800 miles, partly due to Covid lockdowns.
However, I have just found out that I have a significant problem with the tracking on the car, which unbeknown to me had actually worn the inside corners/shoulders - about 35 mm wide of both front tyres.
The front N/S tyre had completely worn away to the cords, even though all the rest of the tyre has between 4 and 5 mm of tread! Therefore I did not realise until the tyre developed a slow puncture, apparently through the cords! So very worryingly I could have had a blowout and accident at any time and was risking points on my licence without knowing it, so I am now not very happy! The O/S tyre is still legal. My wheels and tyres have not been kerbed and are all unmarked. The rear tyres both appear to be wearing evenly with about 5mm tread.
I am midde-aged and drive sensibly. There are potholes in my area and I am very careful to avoid them, but the adjustments are out about the same for both sides and so very unlikely to have been knocked out by potholes.
I have attached photos showing the excessive tyre wear, as well as the Hunter Report recently done at Kwikfit.
The problem is now that the only model and specification that is on the Hunter system is for the general 2016 onwards (5F) Cupra electronic DCC G12 model and nothing for any 2019 special editions.
As previously stated, the launch details and even the Autocar Review dated 13th March 2019 stated, ".... gets new suspension uprights to increase negative camber at both axles to two degrees; adaptive dampers for even tighter body control; 340mm Brembo front brakes; super-sticky Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres; Although the cars actually came with Continental Contact Sport 5p tyres with AO for Audi fitment, which is correct. The car also has the Brembo discs and calipers off of the RS3.
I do not think that the car was properly set up in the first place. I have tried to raise it with Seat UK, but with no luck, their site only refers you to dealers to sort queries. My two local dealers/service centres have told me that Seat UK would not entertain any warranty claim for tracking or tyres after the first three months regardless of what the settings are or should be. The dealers also told me that do not have their own tracking facilities and would be subletting to others anyway, also that they could not even look at the car for several weeks and I would have had to drive the car to them with an illegal tyre! They have also said that they cannot use the Kwikfit Hunter report as Seat will not accept third-party reports.
One of the dealers has raised a query regarding settings with Seat Uk, but that was over a week ago and I still do not have any outcome.
I have just had both front tyres replaced with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's which apparently are better tyres than the Contact Sport 5P's or 6's. I need the tracking corrected before I do too many miles on the new tyres.
My query is, what settings should be used for the car?
Can the standard settings be used or should the car be set up as a standard car, plus further adjustments for the differences i.e. "....... gets new suspension uprights to increase negative camber at both axles to two degrees"?
Hopefully someone knows.
Next step may be a letter to the Seat UK CEO, as I am unhappy about the premature wearing that could have caused a blowout and accident, let alone the points on the licence.
Many thanks
Mal
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Hunter Report.jpg
I’ve done 12k miles now.
I’ll check the wear on inside edges 2mrw, but I’m sure I’ve seen in a Facebook Cupra group another owner with your wear problem.
I’ll ask around and see what I can find out over the next few days.
I had around 4-5mm of tread left in my tyres last time I checked a few weeks ago but didn’t look at the inside edge to be honest.
I want new tyres now as I had my ABT box removed and went Revo stage 1, the power is much more savage now and I’ve started getting wheelspin when setting off in the cold/wet so I’m going to upgrade to the PS4s and then wanted tracking sorted also as I have read (again on the Facebook group) that these cars had some alignment issues from factory, particularly ‘toe in’ if I recall correctly, so it’s something I’ve always wanted done.
I’ll check the wear on inside edges 2mrw, but I’m sure I’ve seen in a Facebook Cupra group another owner with your wear problem.
I’ll ask around and see what I can find out over the next few days.
I had around 4-5mm of tread left in my tyres last time I checked a few weeks ago but didn’t look at the inside edge to be honest.
I want new tyres now as I had my ABT box removed and went Revo stage 1, the power is much more savage now and I’ve started getting wheelspin when setting off in the cold/wet so I’m going to upgrade to the PS4s and then wanted tracking sorted also as I have read (again on the Facebook group) that these cars had some alignment issues from factory, particularly ‘toe in’ if I recall correctly, so it’s something I’ve always wanted done.
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Update just heard back from a fellow R ST user.
He recently needed new tyres as his Goodyear Supersports had 4-5mm tread left but were down to the wire on the inside edge of the front 2
He recently needed new tyres as his Goodyear Supersports had 4-5mm tread left but were down to the wire on the inside edge of the front 2
Thanks. So exactly the same mileage as mine. I have regularly checked my tyres and the inside edges cannot be seen without full lock or getting under the car!
I suspect that the cars were never set up/tweaked properly in the first place and that it is a common problem. I am just glad that the tyre started to lose air, hence I realised before it blew out at speed!
Perhaps the tracking was set up for the "........ super-sticky Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres", that the Autocar review and even one of the dealers commented on, that the car might have been fitted with. All the cars that I looked at had Continental Contact Sport 5P's fitted.
I do not do Facebook. Have you got a link to the FB page, please?
I suspect that the cars were never set up/tweaked properly in the first place and that it is a common problem. I am just glad that the tyre started to lose air, hence I realised before it blew out at speed!
Perhaps the tracking was set up for the "........ super-sticky Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres", that the Autocar review and even one of the dealers commented on, that the car might have been fitted with. All the cars that I looked at had Continental Contact Sport 5P's fitted.
I do not do Facebook. Have you got a link to the FB page, please?
Thanks Slicric
So that is at least 4 owners/cars, in only a few minutes of discussion and they only sold a maximum of 150 of our models!
There is definitely a safety and or warranty issue here for the manufacturer to deal with.
So that is at least 4 owners/cars, in only a few minutes of discussion and they only sold a maximum of 150 of our models!
There is definitely a safety and or warranty issue here for the manufacturer to deal with.
This is how far out my tracking is, it is consistent on both sides, which is why I do not think that the car was set up properly in the first place.
First off, it looks like Kwik Fit have checked your alignment based on the normal Cupra, not the Cupra R ST. By the looks of it could of been wrong on a number of fronts, 1) its not the Estate, 2) its not the 4Drive version, and 3) its not R ST, so not the revised Camber setup for the R ST (-2.0 degrees front AND rear. As it happens checking your figures against mine (Carbon Edtion 4drive) the only acceptable range I'd expect to be different would be the camber range.
I currently run -2.5 degrees at the front, and -2.0 at the rear. Admittedly looking at my last 2 front tyres they were worn in a way that suggested to much camber. However they'd done 22,000+ miles since I'd changed them over the the PS4S (about 2 weeks in to ownership as the Conti 5Ps are awful), and they were not easy miles for 30-50% of the driving.
Now the camber on the front of these cars can not be adjusted. The R ST has revised parts to give it the increased camber at the front. The revised camber at the rear is well within the normal parts range.
From posts elsewhere and on here, the common issue with the R ST is the toe. Now, as most of the cars reported are after the fact, it could be either 1) the cars have not had the toe setup from factory properly or 2) these cars are more prone to knocks with the revised parts. I suspect it more not being setup properly.
This is my before and after setup, now bare in mind. My before figures are after suspension changes , and my after figures for rear camber were asked for, but it allows you to compare the "acceptable range" and see that it matches. Your camber acceptable range (for an R ST) should be more like -1.5° to -2.5° or using the degrees thing on here -1°30' to -2°30' (30' = 30 seconds ie half a minute or half a degree I believe).
So, as a full idea, I did about ~3,000 miles on my PS4S with standard suspension with no check of the alignment. Then about 500 miles settling in the suspension changes before taking it for the above alignment. And then I did a further 19,000+ miles using the above after setup. Only reason I changed the tyres (as they looked fine) as when it was up on the ramps for a service, the inner edge was extremely worn due to camber (not toe), probably should of been changed 1,000 miles earlier.
I'd get your car to a anywhere with a proper Hunter alignment. Mine was done at KwikFit, but the guys who work at my local one are all petrol heads and always ask about the car.
I currently run -2.5 degrees at the front, and -2.0 at the rear. Admittedly looking at my last 2 front tyres they were worn in a way that suggested to much camber. However they'd done 22,000+ miles since I'd changed them over the the PS4S (about 2 weeks in to ownership as the Conti 5Ps are awful), and they were not easy miles for 30-50% of the driving.
Now the camber on the front of these cars can not be adjusted. The R ST has revised parts to give it the increased camber at the front. The revised camber at the rear is well within the normal parts range.
From posts elsewhere and on here, the common issue with the R ST is the toe. Now, as most of the cars reported are after the fact, it could be either 1) the cars have not had the toe setup from factory properly or 2) these cars are more prone to knocks with the revised parts. I suspect it more not being setup properly.
This is my before and after setup, now bare in mind. My before figures are after suspension changes , and my after figures for rear camber were asked for, but it allows you to compare the "acceptable range" and see that it matches. Your camber acceptable range (for an R ST) should be more like -1.5° to -2.5° or using the degrees thing on here -1°30' to -2°30' (30' = 30 seconds ie half a minute or half a degree I believe).
So, as a full idea, I did about ~3,000 miles on my PS4S with standard suspension with no check of the alignment. Then about 500 miles settling in the suspension changes before taking it for the above alignment. And then I did a further 19,000+ miles using the above after setup. Only reason I changed the tyres (as they looked fine) as when it was up on the ramps for a service, the inner edge was extremely worn due to camber (not toe), probably should of been changed 1,000 miles earlier.
I'd get your car to a anywhere with a proper Hunter alignment. Mine was done at KwikFit, but the guys who work at my local one are all petrol heads and always ask about the car.
150 in the UK. Unlike the R hatch, the R ST (like my Carbon Edition) wasn't really a limited edition in Europe. Yeah not every country got it, but they were just a different "trim" level in the likes of Germany and Spain etc, a bit like fords "Special editions" lol . This is why they didn't get numbered.
Its got me thinking,
Due to the extra parts required to be fitted to these cars, and knowing about how certain Seat cars had parts fitted at the port in the UK (The UK spec Mk 2 Cupra R had the diffuser and exhaust fitted at the port after arriving in England).
I'm wondering if these cars where built as standard at the factory. Then had the extra additional parts fitted later. With the expectation that PDIs should sort the wheel alignment out.
Just a thought anyway...
Due to the extra parts required to be fitted to these cars, and knowing about how certain Seat cars had parts fitted at the port in the UK (The UK spec Mk 2 Cupra R had the diffuser and exhaust fitted at the port after arriving in England).
I'm wondering if these cars where built as standard at the factory. Then had the extra additional parts fitted later. With the expectation that PDIs should sort the wheel alignment out.
Just a thought anyway...
Hi Damo H
Thank you for your detailed and prompt reply, obviously, you know what you are talking about.
I got Kwikfit to double-check that they had the settings for the correct car. As you know the 5F is the ST or estate body and the description does say Cupra, so it should be the correct car on their Hunter system. They said the database was up to date.
Does the description line on your Kwikfit Hunter reports state the same?
I really do think that these cars were never set up properly to reflect the minor improvements to the suspension and tracking.
The dealerships have both told me that they do not have access to any specific setup specifications for this model, hence they have put in a request to Seat UK.
Should I be suggesting to Kwikfit or any other Hunter tracking service provider to use the standard settings and then adjust specific parameters accordingly. If so would you know what they all should be for my model?
Many thanks
Mal
Thank you for your detailed and prompt reply, obviously, you know what you are talking about.
I got Kwikfit to double-check that they had the settings for the correct car. As you know the 5F is the ST or estate body and the description does say Cupra, so it should be the correct car on their Hunter system. They said the database was up to date.
Does the description line on your Kwikfit Hunter reports state the same?
I really do think that these cars were never set up properly to reflect the minor improvements to the suspension and tracking.
The dealerships have both told me that they do not have access to any specific setup specifications for this model, hence they have put in a request to Seat UK.
Should I be suggesting to Kwikfit or any other Hunter tracking service provider to use the standard settings and then adjust specific parameters accordingly. If so would you know what they all should be for my model?
Many thanks
Mal
Unless I'm very much mistaken, 5F denotes that its a Mk3, not that its an ST. 1M being the Mk 1, and 1P being the Mk 2. Not aware of any specific model for the estate, although I believe part numbers may have a different denotation.
Sadly I took the photo and have since misplaced the actual document itself, I thought it was with my service book. But I do remember checking it at the time to see if it matched and I wasn't concerned.
As for the figures. My understanding was that it was only the camber that should be different, although it may impact Castor. However Toe should be the same.
In theory Seat should be able to do a wheel alignment for you, there should be at least 3 versions. Cupra/Normal, Cupra R Hatch and Cupra R ST (Hatch didn;t have revised rear camber to my knowledge only front).
The thing is, the extra camber should be improving both handling and wear when pushing on.I've had my fronts replaced not that long ago as they were in the same state as all the above. I was just advised to take it easy on the corners and roundabouts
Image from: https://www.mccabeautos.co.uk/wheel-alignment.php
My tyre was like the 2nd tyre above. If, its more like the first, its toe that's causing the issue. And going off of the alignment that confirms it (for @MalCupraRSTSE anyway).
Thanks to whoever combined the post...
Yes 5F just denotes it's a Mk3 Leon, nothing to do with body type.
Both the Leon hatch and the ST have the same wheel base and the ST is only something like 20-40kg heavier from memory so I imagine there is no need to have different suspension geometry based purely on hatch vs ST.
The Golf Estate and Octavia Estate both use a longer wheel base platform vs their hatchback versions so I could see the possibility of requiring different geometry on these models.
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