LCR Remap Comparisons

[Lee M]

Hi all,

Currently looking into a remap, so I thought I’d do a bit of a 'quick glance' comparison. As I’m a bit of a sado I got a little carried away with details!!!!!.........Still I though it might be of use to you too.

I know there are other tuners about, but have just included the ones that seem to be most popular (sorry if i've missed out someone!!)

Don't rely on this information as being 100% correct, I've sourced most from their websites and via a few e-mails. If you want to get more info about a certain product its probably best to give them a shout.

Also If anything is incorrect (sorry if it is), post the correct info as part of this thread.

As its a .jpg file the web links don't work.


http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u144/Lee_M_2007/LCRRemapComparisons.jpg


Cheers

Lee

 

[Ruddmeister]

Nice little spreadsheet

You could add Forge if you wanted and maybe a few columns with the other things people don;t talk about, money back guarantees, Number of outlets nationally etc (in case you need help) etc etc

Nice start though

 

[ElasticTangent]

Very useful Lee M.

 

[Gnollins]

Nicely done mate.

Perhaps this should be made a sticky?

 

[Feel]

Only thing to add would be to start to talk about "custom" and "generic" (not a discussion about what is best).

For example, from what I know (and possibly dependant on terminology) all three Revo stages are generic code, even stage 3. All can be tailored (boost and timing) if you have access to an SPS3.

 

[stt]

You have just saved me a great deal of effort!

Thanks

 

[Lee M]

Nice little spreadsheet

You could add Forge if you wanted and maybe a few columns with the other things people don;t talk about, money back guarantees, Number of outlets nationally etc (in case you need help) etc etc

Nice start though

Good idea mate but it would take me too long to speak to everyone, and re-search......I'g gladly do it if I had the time and understood it all a bit better.


Cheers

Lee

 

[Lee M]

Only thing to add would be to start to talk about "custom" and "generic" (not a discussion about what is best).

For example, from what I know (and possibly dependant on terminology) all three Revo stages are generic code, even stage 3. All can be tailored (boost and timing) if you have access to an SPS3.

Fair point mate.....

To expand on this a little, this is what I interpret each to be from speaking to various tuners:

1) Generic:
This is a map that has been developed by the tuning company, specifically for your model of car. The map has been generated to produce an improved performance in BHP and torque to allow for maintained driveability and to operate within the boundaries of a standard or modified car.
Each tuner has their own idea of what is best for driveability and power delivery, this is where you need to talk to each of your chosen tuning companies, and ask how the power delivery is generated/applied.
This type of map is more of an 'off the shelf' solution, but is by no means a bad route to take, as lots of time and money has been put into these maps by the respective tuning companies.

Some of the tuners have the option of an OBD port interface unit or software (via a laptop & OBD port), which enables the map to be modified (e.g. boost levels, or return to stock settings for a service) or additional features to be enabled (e.g. vehicle immobilisation). - check the tuners websites to find out more.

Some of the tuners offer a discounted upgrade to the next 'stage/phase' or custom style map, if in the future you want to modify your car further.

As the LCR's ECU is 'adaptive', the map will improve over time.

2) Custom (more vehicle specific):
This type of map can be applied to any car either standard or modified.
The custom map allows for the software to be programmed to meet the needs of an individual, i.e. how the power/torque is delivered - lower down the rev range, up the top of the rev range or a smooth curve throughout. (Including boost, timing and throttle position settings) and also enables any modifications (such as an exhaust system & front mount intercooler etc) to be taken into account.
Some of the custom maps are tweaked by driving the car and logging its response to the installed map, and adjusting it until the maximum benefit is reached, and some of the maps are carried out on rolling road to achieve the same. - There are pro's and con's to both I’m sure!!!
Again the Custom map is designed to be within the safe operating limits of your car, but just tailored to your specific vehicle and how it reacts to the changes.

Some of the tuners have the option of an OBD port interface unit or software (via a laptop & OBD port), which enables the map to be modified (e.g. boost levels, or return to stock settings for a service) or additional features to be enabled (e.g. vehicle immobilisation). - check the tuners websites to find out more.

As the LCR's ECU is 'adaptive', the map will improve over time.


I'm no expert with regard to all this; it’s just what I’ve picked up talking to various tuning companies. - Don't like to spend my cash until I’m satisfied I’ve chosen the best option for me......

Well worth a call to who you fancy mapping your car, I’ve found everyone I have spoken to or e-mailed very helpful and co-operative.

Cheers all


Lee

 

[padge16v]

Very useful, i think it should be a sticky

 

[Feel]

Not sure I agree with your definition of generic vs. custom, you seem to be saying that generic maps are an average of lots of custom maps, "turned down". That's not the case.

You also seem to be saying anything more than a panel filter and you need a custom map - Revo and APR Phase 2 are marketed as generic maps, others are also generic maps, marketed as custom (alegedly).

Unless I went with some mahoosive big turbo, and couldn't use MAF and injectors to a particular map, I would stick with a generic map. If the same map has been run on lots of cars, then that's more testing being done.

Your original spreadsheet doesn't mention switchability/tweakability (SPS [Revo], different programs [APR] or software [CC, APR]) which is a big factor for a lot of people.

You mention that some of the generic tuners offer upgrades to custom style maps - just to be clear on this, AFAIK the generic tuner's Stage 2 maps are all still generic, as are some of their Stage 3 maps.

 

[Lee M]

Not sure I agree with your definition of generic vs. custom, you seem to be saying that generic maps are an average of lots of custom maps, "turned down". That's not the case.

You also seem to be saying anything more than a panel filter and you need a custom map - Revo and APR Phase 2 are marketed as generic maps, others are also generic maps, marketed as custom (alegedly).

Unless I went with some mahoosive big turbo, and couldn't use MAF and injectors to a particular map, I would stick with a generic map. If the same map has been run on lots of cars, then that's more testing being done.

Your original spreadsheet doesn't mention switchability/tweakability (SPS [Revo], different programs [APR] or software [CC, APR]) which is a big factor for a lot of people.

You mention that some of the generic tuners offer upgrades to custom style maps - just to be clear on this, AFAIK the generic tuner's Stage 2 maps are all still generic, as are some of their Stage 3 maps.

Fair enough mate, as I said it was my interpretation. The spreadsheet was just something I did for me, and posted as I thought it maybe of use to others.

I have modifed my previous post to give a more basic opinion of what each means, to remove any confusion with my misinterpretations.

As for the SPS switchability/tweakability etc.......I did not look into this in to much detail, the spreadsheet was more for power and cost comparision. Probably better that people contact the tuners direct to discuss options.


Thanks mate

Lee

Cheers for your comments though.

 

[rllmuk]

Spot on that mate, ta.

 

[RobM]

Very useful post! Nice one for your efforts

 

[m0rk]

If you don't mind sending me the spreadsheet I can finish it off with the 'additional' parts, then look at hosting it on the main site etc?

switching / adjustment is a big and useful part

and to be honest - I'd like to find out from the tuners what tools they use to customise the map (this will then show the prospective purchasers how custom it is)

for instance you write:

The custom map allows for the software to be programmed to meet the needs of an individual, i.e. how the power/torque is delivered - lower down the rev range, up the top of the rev range or a smooth curve throughout.

These adjustments are limited by the hardware.... I promise you that no matter how you custom map something all the maps will have peak torque at ~3000rpm, coincidence, or everyone asking for the exact same requirements?

Plus there's a couple of factual inaccuracies (like revo stage 3 being applicable to the list)

 

[RobM]

That would be superb if you could get the tuners to input their facts and figures, so long as any marketing B.S. is kept out of it. Nice one m0rk

 

[m.r.davies]

Well done mate, this is very useful, good to see the figures on the table rather than the age old mine is bigger than yours disscussion.

 

[Feel]

If you don't mind sending me the spreadsheet I can finish it off with the 'additional' parts, then look at hosting it on the main site etc?

switching / adjustment is a big and useful part

and to be honest - I'd like to find out from the tuners what tools they use to customise the map (this will then show the prospective purchasers how custom it is)

for instance you write:



These adjustments are limited by the hardware.... I promise you that no matter how you custom map something all the maps will have peak torque at ~3000rpm, coincidence, or everyone asking for the exact same requirements?

Plus there's a couple of factual inaccuracies (like revo stage 3 being applicable to the list)

That'd be brilliant, I'd hoped someone might do this - any help I can offer, please ask.

I think you should make sure the "marketed" figure is clearly labelled, then if we can agree on one figure fromt he many we've seen on RR days, where you needed to have been there to make any sense of the results (not that the marketed figures are wrong, just that there is an element of "dyno lottery" of course). A "shape of curve" comparison would be good, also.

 

[Lee M]

Thanks all for offering the assistance, it would be good to have some more input from people with experience of this stuff.

I will send the spreadsheet to m0rk for improving and adding too.


Cheers all

Lee

 

[Ruddmeister]

I think this is turning into something really usefull, it will be good to have a reference document of this sort and a definition of 'Generic' 'Custom' and 'Tailored' will be usefull to alow people to make an informed decision.

 

[RichLCR225]

A really useful thread Lee, cheers for taking the time to share it with us.