New Clutch Sooner than i thought

[Leon2012]

A few links down on Google:

techniclutch... crap!!
just run the engine in after its 2.1 zvh conversion and the brand new techniclutch
thats in it is slipping like f*ck. anyone know where i can get a decent clutch at a good price??

http://passionford.com/forum/ford-escort-rs-turbo/95323-techniclutch-crap.html


Stop convincing yourself it's gonna be ok and just accept the £150 loss

 

[Leon2012]

From Briskoda about someone thinking of getting a Techniclutch:

dont do it mate mine slipped from the minute it was fitted

Never ever use Techniclutch. I did for my 200sx and i had to change it within 2 months.

got one for my c2 gt, it was a bit too juddery for my liking.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/191456-anyone-used-techniclutch/

 

[JamesL]

Just refuse the package when it is delivered. It will be returned to sender and you can then get your refund - you will never have taken delivery, let alone opened it.

If you are concerned, don't even think about keeping it. You'll pay 4/5 hours labour to get it on, realise its crap, then have to pay another 4/5 hours labour to get a new one fitted. Stop convincing yourself its fine when there is quite obviously issues - you posted up here asking if anyone has had any experiences and you've had a page full of responses which all tell you to steer clear!

If you are concerned about what to tell the vendor, just tell them you needed one urgently and managed to obtain another clutch between ordering theirs, and receiving it.

 

[Leon2012]

You could have even looked at their feedback on eBay:

"clutch slips as****,LIGHTENED&BALANCED flywheel is a LIE!!!SM-LUK 10KG,DMF10kg!"

 

[AshFR]

Just refuse the package when it is delivered. It will be returned to sender and you can then get your refund - you will never have taken delivery, let alone opened it.

If you are concerned, don't even think about keeping it. You'll pay 4/5 hours labour to get it on, realise its crap, then have to pay another 4/5 hours labour to get a new one fitted. Stop convincing yourself its fine when there is quite obviously issues - you posted up here asking if anyone has had any experiences and you've had a page full of responses which all tell you to steer clear!

If you are concerned about what to tell the vendor, just tell them you needed one urgently and managed to obtain another clutch between ordering theirs, and receiving it.

Fair enough. I will not accept it then. But what about proof of return back to sender? Will it still be ok and proof of return? So do i need the sachs sre or just a normal sachs? Or even helix? I dont really want to spen no more than £700 but i will if i have to. Thanks.

 

[Leon2012]

Ash, I suggest you do some research and find out what's the most suitable clutch for your needs

 

[AshFR]

Ash, I suggest you do some research and find out what's the most suitable clutch for your needs

I have bud but no one states the part numbers or anything else like a sachs sre organic or a normal sachs. I just need to know if i need to got for the sachs sre organic or normal sachs? Or evem the helix as its about the same price as the sachs sre organic. Theres just so many i dont know what to go for. I would love a southbend but the price puts me off abit. Would the stage 1 daily driver southbend with silent smf be ok for a stage 1 remap? Thanks.

 

[AshFR]

Well I would never fit a brand of clutch I've never heard of, made to low standards in a Chinese factory, and sold by a slick salesman claiming they are the same as Southbends...yeah right...

I've just had a look at the Returns Policy on the eBay link you gave, and you've definately lost out in someway, either by fitting (or attempting to fit if it does indeed go on properly) a poor quality item, or by returning it:



Either way you're screwed...

Yes mate i saw this. Ive emailed them now and said i will be refusing delivery for a refund. Southbend is £1062 inc delivery and VAT from darkside developments. Is this the cheapest in the uk for the southbend? thanks.

 

[Leon2012]

Hi Ash,

With a remap, getting a standard Sachs clutch would more than likely fail, an organic Sachs may or may not fail, a Helix SMF would hold but you may get chatter, and Darkside Dev. is the only distributor of Southbend in the whole of Europe. They are available cheaper in the USA, but the postage and potential import duties kill it.

I know it's expensive, but you've got to accept two things when you buy a PD150, that A) the cam is probably going to fail and cost you over a grand, and B) the clutch is probably going to fail if you remap it, again costing upto and over another grand.

As long as you budget for these when you get a PD150 (and also often PD130s), then you're ok.

 

[Dan1720v]

My gf's 340lbft fabia is running an OEM LUK clutch and flywheel on a hybrid, no slip. All depends on the map and the driver.

 

[Leon2012]

My gf's 340lbft fabia is running an OEM LUK clutch and flywheel on a hybrid, no slip. All depends on the map and the driver.

If you're putting down a genuine 340 ft/lbs, and running a clutch rated to 300 MAX, then it doesn't matter which map/tune you're running, as you must be babying it like f*ck!

There's no way even the best map/tune could hold that torque on a standard clutch if you drive it properly, lol - give that car to 99% of SCN'ers and it'd be slipping in a week!

 

[Dan1720v]

torque spikes dont do any favours, its a really nice smooth map. not being babied atall, its driven hard lol, just no launches, or full throttle changes. its been in there for 5k so far, and not given even a hint of trouble.

 

[Leon2012]

Well you must either have an unusually strong LUK OEM clutch, or your idea of being driven hard is different to mine, lol

 

[Dan1720v]

LUK has always been romoured to be stronger than the sachs equivilent.

 

[Leon2012]

Hi Dan,

LUK clutches are rated at between 250-300, some say 250, some 270 and some upto 300.

The dyno you went on was probably reading high, as most UK dynos do, so you're probably not at 340 genuine ft/lbs anyway.

So, basically your gf is on the limit of what the clutch is capable of. Not launching it or doing changes at WOT IS babying it compared to the way most of us drive, as well as caning it with the low down torque through the corners.

I would hate to have a clutch that I knew I couldn't do those things with, so it's a restriction, and the only reason your gf is getting away with a car that is too powerful for the clutch...is by not using that power fully, and therefore staying under the clutch threshold.

 

[Dan1720v]

Its been on a few dyno's, lowest being 327lb/ft.

TBH, being an ex-renaultsport techie, I have alot of mechanical sympathy, knowing what the boxes can be like. I cant say that WOT changes are part of driving a car hard, more lack of mechanical sympathy. but, having said that I guess its why I've never had to change a clutch on any of my cars, heel and toe every down change, just a way of looking after a vehicle.

 

[Leon2012]

I like it, "mechanical sympathy", nursing it you mean , I bet you're a salesman or politician now with wordplay like that

The point is that using that torque properly, in whatever ways have the most detrimental effect, and not being so 'sympathetic' as you put it, is going to have an effect on the clutch.

There are tunes/remaps called Clutch Savers, and maybe your map is similar to one of them, in that it may give a higher than average torque reading at full throttle, but uses less than average torque for the equivalent remap from another company the rest of the time, i.e. in standard driving.

You may also have a particularly strong factory clutch.

These 3 factors put together could easily mean that your clutch isn't slipping, but for most people it's not the case.

 

[AshFR]

The clutch has come and the release bearing is LuK and the clutch plate and SMF have Valeo stamped in to them. The clutch cover however doesnt have any marking. Ive already organised it to go back now anyway as i would prefer a southbend just to be on the safe side as i dont want any noises on idle/low revs, slipping, etc...

 

[towcester vag]

luk clutches have a 25% safe guard on standard power output when i spoke to the technical dept
hence the reason i fitted a helix
my friends fabia is running a helix and thats 220 bhp 340lb/ft torque on dualmass
neither of us have had any problems with noises/judder etc
i would fit helix everytime as they know what they are doing and dont claim what their clutches cant do

 

[Muttley]

Leon2012 wrote

I know it's expensive, but you've got to accept two things when you buy a PD150, that
A) the cam is probably going to fail and cost you over a grand, and
B) the clutch is probably going to fail if you remap it, again costing upto and over another grand.​

I've got to dispute A) above. There are many PD150 owners on the forum who have never had any problems with their cam. The evidence I found when researching before my recent purchase was that cam failures were almost all on earlier models, and that in every case they were associated with using the wrong oil, not 505.01 compliant, or that the maintenance schedule was missing and the type of oil used could not be checked.

The rumours of a batch of poorly hardened cams causing regular failures in early PD150's (or is it PD130's? two versions of the myth exist) can't be confirmed. There's no evidence that ties any failures together by build dates or locations or batch numbers.

So your best, indeed only, form of insurance when buying a PD engined Mk.1 Leon/Mk.2 Toledo is to have a full service history with stamps from reliable dealers or specialist 3rd parties. Even this isn't infallible, as evidence has been found in the US of some dealers not being aware of or not taking seriously the requirement to use 505.01 oil.


On your point B) I agree that the PD150 is on the edge of what the clutch can deal with, and remapping one will cause the clutch to wear out very much more quickly - to the point that a replacement is best budgeted for along with the remap, or on purchase if it hasn't been done.