Power steering failure

[J04n88]

Morning fellas, I've read through all the posts on power steering on here and although they have been helpful they haven't fixed or really diagnosed my issue.

The problem started a while back when doing a U turn and using full right hand lock the steering light came on. From then on the power steering became intermittent, then would only work at speeds above parking speeds and finally about a week ago it packed up altogether.

The code I get on obd11 is 00816 which equates to steering angle sensor.

Before doing anything I ran live data and although the pump had voltage and was showing rpm the angle didn't change when the steering wheel was moved. The original coding for the module was 10121.

I changed the coding to 11211 assuming my car has the G85 as it has cornering lights. The power steering didn't work but the CEL went off. Live data shows different values when the steering wheel is turned and different pump voltage/rpm during steering.

I then tried 10111 for the g250 sensor and this just put me back to square one. No live data other than consistent pump voltage and rpm.

The fact that the power steering has now completely failed would make me believe it was the pump but the pump showing a voltage and rpm and then fluctuations to the values when on the 11211 code would say the pump was working. Could it in fact be the g250 and that my pump isnt compatible with the g85? Would a sensor cause complete failure of the power steering?

As I mentioned above I have obd11 so if there's anything else I can look into please let me know.

Thanks so much for reading, any help is greatly appreciated. Regards John

 

[dm222]

you need a new pump

coding only works if it is wrongly coded in the first place, usually after replacing with a used pump from another car

 

[J04n88]

Thanks for your reply! I read on here about a bloke who hadn't changed pumps but got his working again by changing the code from the g250 code to the g85 one. I was aware about coding in new pumps ets but wanted to give that a shot before going any further.

Given that there is no live data from the sensor on the rack would that not suggest it was faulty? Or could it be the control module on the pump that's not receivibg the data and is in fact faulty? The fact the pump is running according to obd11 confuses me also...

Thanks again for your help

 

[RUM4MO]

Some of these cars only use the steering wheel position sensor for the cornering lights, others, maybe later cars use that sensor as part of the control for the power steering.

 

[J04n88]

Some of these cars only use the steering wheel position sensor for the cornering lights, others, maybe later cars use that sensor as part of the control for the power steering.

From what I've read you can code the sensor in the steering wheel to work on earlier cars but i'm not sure if you need to change the pump to do this. When I coded the steering to use the sensor in the steering wheel I then got live data Re change of steering angle etc which wasn't available before. But that could still be the pump control module instead of the rack sensor. I'm starting to think that I buy both the pump and the g250 sensor, fit the pump and if that works I can always return the sensor.

 

[dm222]

Thanks for your reply! I read on here about a bloke who hadn't changed pumps but got his working again by changing the code from the g250 code to the g85 one. I was aware about coding in new pumps ets but wanted to give that a shot before going any further.

Given that there is no live data from the sensor on the rack would that not suggest it was faulty? Or could it be the control module on the pump that's not receivibg the data and is in fact faulty? The fact the pump is running according to obd11 confuses me also...

Thanks again for your help

most times it is the pump, when my pump failed it gave G250 code

is the steering as stiff as when the engine is not running? or ligher?


If it was just the G250 sensor and your car is equiped with G85 sensor (if it has ESP) then changing the code to x12xx would have solved the problem, the pump can work with both as long as your car has it

6R0423156c for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for 6R0423156c. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[J04n88]

most times it is the pump, when my pump failed it gave G250 code

is the steering as stiff as when the engine is not running? or ligher?


If it was just the G250 sensor and your car is equiped with G85 sensor (if it has ESP) then changing the code to x12xx would have solved the problem, the pump can work with both as long as your car has it

6R0423156c for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for 6R0423156c. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.co.uk

Its exactly the same as when the cars switched off, nothing there at all!

Im assuming I have the G85 as I have cornering lights and as I say the live data on obd11 did work once i had coded it to use the G85 but it made no difference to the steering at all.

I will order both the pump and the sensor. I'll try the sensor first as it seems that's a fairly straightforward job, if that doesn't work I can then change the pump.

It's a shame there no way to 100% diagnose the issue without trial and error switching parts.

Do you know if there's a way of finding out which model of pump I need without taking the wheel liner out? Would it be visible if it take the fog light grill out?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[dm222]

Its exactly the same as when the cars switched off, nothing there at all!

Its the pump, if it was the sensor it would be ligther with engine running (but not as light as normal).

the pump runs around 1000rpm idle, when you turn the steering wheel it goes as high as 4000rpm, without the sensor working the pump always stays at 1000rpm even when you turn the steering, if your steering is the same as engine switched off the pump is not working at all which means the pump is the problem there.


--------------------------------

regarding the values you getting you probably checking the wrong field, there is one with the specified value that tells what speed the pump should be running at that particular time and another who tells what speed the pump is actually running at (which is certainly 0 if your steering is the same as when engine is not running)

here it is my measures if you interested

LOG-44-001-002-003.csv

drive.google.com

 

[J04n88]

These are the values it was reading when I had tried to force it to work using the coding for the G85 sensor. The screenshot was taken whilst moving the steering wheel. From them would you still say the pump isn't working? I'm in no way disputing what you're saying by the way, just making sure.

Thanks again

 

[dm222]

These are the values it was reading when I had tried to force it to work using the coding for the G85 sensor. The screenshot was taken whilst moving the steering wheel. From them would you still say the pump isn't working? I'm in no way disputing what you're saying by the way, just making sure.

Thanks again


View attachment 34558 View attachment 34559 View attachment 34557

this values are impossible

cant be at 3000rpm with 0 Amps

if in fact the steering is th same as when engine is off, extremly hard to turn, then its the pump, when sensor fails and pump is working you still have steering assist but less than normal

 

[J04n88]

ok so that may point to a dodgy control unit in the pump then? I'll have to check which part number is on mine and get one ordered. I'll hopefully be back with good news once its fitted!

 

[dm222]

part numbers are:

6R0423156
6R0423156a
6R0423156b
6R0423156c

you can order yours or above (previous probably works too but not sure)

you may or may not have to code the new pump after fitting

 

[J04n88]

OK... I've just fitted a 2nd hand pump and everything is working fine. The old pump basically came out in 2 parts, the reservoir and the pump! I actually think it had lost all its fluid but I did check the fluid a couple of month back and it was fine so that wasn't the original issue, but would explain why obd thought the pump was working etc.

I've got no check engine lights but the obd pulls up codes for coding issues, however it won't let me enter new coding. As everything is running OK can I just let it be? I'm not particularly bothered about the coding as long as it won't cause any further issues. I do however have access to vcds if coding is necessary to prevent future failures.

Side note, I'd forgotten how much of a pain it was to get to the filler cap, what a terrible design!

As always thanks for you help, happy to have the power steering back

 

[dm222]

I dont know about the check engine light should not be related to the pump

 

[J04n88]

There is no check engine light, that's my point really, nothing on the dash but if I scan for fault codes it comes up as a coding issue with the pump module.

 

[dm222]

post the error... also do you know which code the pump has currently?
to code you probably need VCDS

 

[J04n88]

Sorted, obd worked to code it but only without the engine running which I didn't realise. All fixed now, thanks for your help.

 

[dm222]

same for vcds only with ignition on but engine not running