The trouble people are having putting even 300 bhp through the front wheels, I think you might be disappointed.
Leon Cupra R25
- Thread starter POPOV
- Start date
The trouble people are having putting even 300 bhp through the front wheels, I think you might be disappointed.
Yes, FWD beyond 300hp is a struggle, currently running 430hp and spinning in 4th gear.
The idea is to AWD convert in next phase of the project.
I'm smoked at speeds below 100Km/h but above is where I'll enjoy the minor transmission lost.
By the way the Audi Sport TTRS Race Car is FWD:
http://www.quattroworld.com/034motorsport/034motorsport-audi-ttrs-race-car/
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Yes, FWD beyond 300hp is a struggle, currently running 430hp and spinning in 4th gear.
The idea is to AWD convert in next phase of the project.
I'm smoked at speeds below 100Km/h but above is where I'll enjoy the minor transmission lost.
By the way the Audi Sport TTRS Race Car is FWD:
http://www.quattroworld.com/034motorsport/034motorsport-audi-ttrs-race-car/
Sure but it also has loads of aero, 'only' 380 bhp and 11 inch slicks
Best of luck though, it's certainly a unique project
Actually 372hp
but then it weights only 1120Kg .Happy you think it's unique, thank you.
Surely there are more efficient ways of making the Cupra faster but that's not my primary goal with this project.
I'll realize very soon that I need the AWD badly...
_
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Really Impressive!!!!! Want to do the same thing to my car when you're done?????
Then hopefully you should be able to start your build this summer
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Electrics
I was fortunate in sourcing some electrical components for my build locally at a descent price.
The idea is to use the existing interior wiring loom and adopt whatever that needs to be adjusted to work with the new set up.
I've seen some builds reuse the OEM vehicle cluster but wanted to avoid fighting with coding to match it up.
I fear the electrical set up will be a real challenge as my know how within this field is lower.
Any insight is welcome!
I was fortunate in sourcing some electrical components for my build locally at a descent price.
- Keys
- ECU
- Cluster
- BCM
- Canbus gateway
The idea is to use the existing interior wiring loom and adopt whatever that needs to be adjusted to work with the new set up.
I've seen some builds reuse the OEM vehicle cluster but wanted to avoid fighting with coding to match it up.
I fear the electrical set up will be a real challenge as my know how within this field is lower.
Any insight is welcome!
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Engine block
A couple of days before Christmas the engine from US finally arrived to me after a long trip over the North Atlantic Ocean by boat.
My engine builder started disassembling it and was surprised as one cylinder had a large amount of gearbox oil in it.
Squirting a minor amount of oil in cylinders to act as protection during transportation is normal but not pouring it in.
Engine was advertised as a plug and play unit by the seller, if we had fired it up it could have hydro-locked and done some bad damage to rods, crank, bearings.
Luckily we had no intentions of running this engine stock .
Contacted the seller and he refunded me a fair amount of money for the trouble, thankful for getting some money back as the import taxation fees where greater then wished for.
During an extended period of time I've been collecting information on forums and in Elsa to understand the differences between the 2.5 NA and 2.5 TFSI engine block.
It's been stated on forums that they are 95% identical besides the slight different combinations of metals in the iron cast.
As there's no summary of this on the web I figured I'll share my knowledge in this post. Pictures are not mine, just used as reference.
The major differences are on the rear of the block. For those of you that are color blind, I'm sorry for this visualization method...
Red - Right hand side knock sensor mounting location is higher. When I detected this difference a couple of weeks ago I got stressed as I thought the knock sensor location on my 2.5 block would prevent me of installing the OEM turbo.
After a test fitting of the 2.5 TFSI head on the 2.5 NA block with the turbo I was relived. Knock sensor is physically not interfering with the turbo.
I'm not certain of the reason for the re-positioning done by Audi on the 2.5 TFSI engine block but presumably it's because of the heat from the turbo.
Will specifically ensure to protect the knock sensors from the heat with heat wrapping. Alternatively the re-positioning can be due to the measuring cylinder knock capability but I think that less likely. Thoughts are welcome on the topic.
Orange - Turbo coolant feed. I'll machine/drill/tap into the same location on the 2.5 block as the cast is available.
Blue - Turbo Oil feed. I'll connect to the 2.5 TFSI head instead.
Yellow - Turbo oil return. I'll drill and tap into the block just below in the threaded cast part of the block.
Brown - Mounting point for the turbo hot air outlet tube. I'll secure it in another way.
Pink x 2 - The support bracket for the angle drive utilizes these positions. I'll have to re-design the bracket to fit the 2.5 NA block mounting points.
Purple x 3 - Mounting points for a metal heat shield protecting the cables and knock sensors from heat. Won't be needing that, I'll wrap and protect the cables in another way.
White x 2 - Used for the mounting of the turbo coolant return pipe. Not crucial...
On the front of the engine block there's only one deviation.
Blue - One of the coolant thermostat mounts is not available on the 2.5 NA block. Will produce a bracket that utilizes the mounting point on the left hand side as support.
One final difference, the water pump. The 2.5 TFSI water pump (housing diameter of the water pump) is larger. Thereby the block has a larger internal water pump diameter to fit the larger pump.
I could have it machined but I've decided against as I'll compensate the cooling with a auxiliary oil cooler and a larger cooler radiator. More on this topic further ahead in my build.
My conclusion, overall internal and external block design is identical when you see them as complete units but the accessories mounting points and connections are different.
A couple of days before Christmas the engine from US finally arrived to me after a long trip over the North Atlantic Ocean by boat.
My engine builder started disassembling it and was surprised as one cylinder had a large amount of gearbox oil in it.
Squirting a minor amount of oil in cylinders to act as protection during transportation is normal but not pouring it in.
Engine was advertised as a plug and play unit by the seller, if we had fired it up it could have hydro-locked and done some bad damage to rods, crank, bearings.
Luckily we had no intentions of running this engine stock
. Contacted the seller and he refunded me a fair amount of money for the trouble, thankful for getting some money back as the import taxation fees where greater then wished for.
During an extended period of time I've been collecting information on forums and in Elsa to understand the differences between the 2.5 NA and 2.5 TFSI engine block.
It's been stated on forums that they are 95% identical besides the slight different combinations of metals in the iron cast.
As there's no summary of this on the web I figured I'll share my knowledge in this post. Pictures are not mine, just used as reference.
The major differences are on the rear of the block. For those of you that are color blind, I'm sorry for this visualization method...
Red - Right hand side knock sensor mounting location is higher. When I detected this difference a couple of weeks ago I got stressed as I thought the knock sensor location on my 2.5 block would prevent me of installing the OEM turbo.
After a test fitting of the 2.5 TFSI head on the 2.5 NA block with the turbo I was relived. Knock sensor is physically not interfering with the turbo
. I'm not certain of the reason for the re-positioning done by Audi on the 2.5 TFSI engine block but presumably it's because of the heat from the turbo.
Will specifically ensure to protect the knock sensors from the heat with heat wrapping. Alternatively the re-positioning can be due to the measuring cylinder knock capability but I think that less likely. Thoughts are welcome on the topic.
Orange - Turbo coolant feed. I'll machine/drill/tap into the same location on the 2.5 block as the cast is available.
Blue - Turbo Oil feed. I'll connect to the 2.5 TFSI head instead.
Yellow - Turbo oil return. I'll drill and tap into the block just below in the threaded cast part of the block.
Brown - Mounting point for the turbo hot air outlet tube. I'll secure it in another way.
Pink x 2 - The support bracket for the angle drive utilizes these positions. I'll have to re-design the bracket to fit the 2.5 NA block mounting points.
Purple x 3 - Mounting points for a metal heat shield protecting the cables and knock sensors from heat. Won't be needing that, I'll wrap and protect the cables in another way.
White x 2 - Used for the mounting of the turbo coolant return pipe. Not crucial...
On the front of the engine block there's only one deviation.
Blue - One of the coolant thermostat mounts is not available on the 2.5 NA block. Will produce a bracket that utilizes the mounting point on the left hand side as support.
One final difference, the water pump. The 2.5 TFSI water pump (housing diameter of the water pump) is larger. Thereby the block has a larger internal water pump diameter to fit the larger pump.
I could have it machined but I've decided against as I'll compensate the cooling with a auxiliary oil cooler and a larger cooler radiator. More on this topic further ahead in my build.
My conclusion, overall internal and external block design is identical when you see them as complete units but the accessories mounting points and connections are different.
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Nice build I have just blown my engine last summer and was thinking of doing that but did not have the balls so just got a new block and forging it to run big power. Will have to keep an eye on this. Good work
Thank you! Blow it again =), I'll let you know how to go about and avoid the issues I came across during my project.
Just be sure to prepare your wallet as parts marked "RS" come expensive
There is a complete engine on Ebay at the moment, good price reference of what a project like this could cost you...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Audi-RS3-TTRS-2-5-TFSI-QUATTRO-CEP-MOTOR-ENGINE-2011-AUF-LAGER-UMBAU-GETRIEBE-/321980137659?hash=item4af78300bb%3Ag%3A5xgAAOSwKtlWnOnp
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I'm aiming at having the Cupra R25 in motion by June 14 this year.
But it all depends on if I can source all parts in time and don't run into issues that will delay too much.
Thank you! Blow it again =), I'll let you know how to go about and avoid the issues I came across during my project.
Just be sure to prepare your wallet as parts marked "RS" come expensive
There is a complete engine on Ebay at the moment, good price reference of what a project like this could cost you...
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Audi-RS3-TTRS-2-5-TFSI-QUATTRO-CEP-MOTOR-ENGINE-2011-AUF-LAGER-UMBAU-GETRIEBE-/321980137659?hash=item4af78300bb%3Ag%3A5xgAAOSwKtlWnOnp
Thanks when and if I do I will ask. One of my m8s is looking at doing it to his b5 s4 when and if his blows on him lol well good luck with this beast
Crank
The 2.5 NA crank is cast with a 6 bolt flywheel pattern, in earlier engines (pre 2008) occasionally the crank was forged.
The 2.5 TFSI has only been supplied with a forged 8 bolt flywheel pattern to date.
On various forums it has been stated that the cast crank is good for 600hp on FWD applications.
As I'll be AWD converting further ahead the crank load will increase when launching due to the improved traction.
I fear that the cast crank will be pushed to it's limits and I'll risk it failing.
By "coincidence" I came across a used TTRS crank from a trusted source that I acquired and is now being shipped to me.
The crank will be validated and balanced when received before being assembled into my engine block.
The 2.5 NA crank is cast with a 6 bolt flywheel pattern, in earlier engines (pre 2008) occasionally the crank was forged.
The 2.5 TFSI has only been supplied with a forged 8 bolt flywheel pattern to date.
On various forums it has been stated that the cast crank is good for 600hp on FWD applications.
As I'll be AWD converting further ahead the crank load will increase when launching due to the improved traction.
I fear that the cast crank will be pushed to it's limits and I'll risk it failing.
By "coincidence" I came across a used TTRS crank from a trusted source that I acquired and is now being shipped to me.
The crank will be validated and balanced when received before being assembled into my engine block.
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Pulling engine out
Pulled the old 2.0 TFSI engine out yesterday, one step closer. Being sick and having a bad back in temperature of 3C made it all an agony but out it went.
Looking at it all out I realized the amount of work I have in front of me... It will all be worth it when I one day turn that key and get the audio from a five pot.
Pulled the old 2.0 TFSI engine out yesterday, one step closer. Being sick and having a bad back in temperature of 3C made it all an agony but out it went.
Looking at it all out I realized the amount of work I have in front of me... It will all be worth it when I one day turn that key and get the audio from a five pot.
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