Engine Oil Query????

Hey Guys

I was supposed to change a friends engine oil last week, but due to work i was unable to do it.

Due to hime having things to get sorted for MOT he took it to a Kwik Fit.

His car is a Seat Ibiza MK5 2009 1.4 SE. I know this car is a 5w40 grade oil but upon looking at his service invoice they have put in 10w40 (Brand: TITAN SYN MC 10W 40 - Thats what it is called on service invoice.

Is this ok? We are based in the West midlands and i know it is getting to colder temps in the year but im just not sure whether he should be calling kwik fit to complain.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

RUM4MO said:

They are lazy idiots refilling it was that grade of oil! Normally that grade of oil is semi synthetic and okay for use on cars like a 40 year old SAAB 96. Fuchs, in general is a very good brand of oil and is the official supplier of oils to VW Group engine plants, but not that grade or version.

I tend to just use 5W-30 which was what VW Group would use on that engine if it was on variable/flexible servicing, and VW Group dealerships tended to use it for fixed/annual servicing - to avoid any mess ups with which oil to use where, now they tend to use 5W-40 for fixed servicing, but always a fully synthetic oil.

Edit:- that oil is a Fuchs oil, Titan is a group of engine oil product lines, that oil is listed as being suitable for VW cars that require oils of a spec 500.00 or 505.00 - but I'd always use a "5W" in UK temperatures.

Another edit:- the correct oil spec for use with petrol engines in a SEAT Ibiza 2009 model is - 501.00 or 502.00 or 504.00 - I have just checked that out in the official owners handbook in my daughter's Nov 2009 SEAT Ibiza 1.4 16V 86PS petrol.

VW Group sell cars all over the world so they are a bit reluctant to list the only correct grade of oil to use even while setting down the correct oil specs, so they do include for use 10W-40 but it has to be to the VW specs I've listed above - which Fuch do not claim that oil you mentioned to be to.

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HeyRum

Thanks for this info, it does appear your correct that it does not meet to VW spec, as my friends car needs a VW 502 00. But it appears titan is 500 / 505. I wil have my friend contact kwik fit and let you know how we get on.

Thanks again

RUM4MO said:

They are lazy idiots refilling it was that grade of oil! Normally that grade of oil is semi synthetic and okay for use on cars like a 40 year old SAAB 96. Fuchs, in general is a very good brand of oil and is the official supplier of oils to VW Group engine plants, but not that grade or version.

I tend to just use 5W-30 which was what VW Group would use on that engine if it was on variable/flexible servicing, and VW Group dealerships tended to use it for fixed/annual servicing - to avoid any mess ups with which oil to use where, now they tend to use 5W-40 for fixed servicing, but always a fully synthetic oil.

Edit:- that oil is a Fuchs oil, Titan is a group of engine oil product lines, that oil is listed as being suitable for VW cars that require oils of a spec 500.00 or 505.00 - but I'd always use a "5W" in UK temperatures.

Another edit:- the correct oil spec for use with petrol engines in a SEAT Ibiza 2009 model is - 501.00 or 502.00 or 504.00 - I have just checked that out in the official owners handbook in my daughter's Nov 2009 SEAT Ibiza 1.4 16V 86PS petrol.

VW Group sell cars all over the world so they are a bit reluctant to list the only correct grade of oil to use even while setting down the correct oil specs, so they do include for use 10W-40 but it has to be to the VW specs I've listed above - which Fuch do not claim that oil you mentioned to be to.

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Hey rum

So we have soke with seat and what you said is correct 10w 40 is fine IF its vw502 spec. Now issue is when you research fuchs titan syn mc it is not vw502 on some websites, or if your on ebay you can see pics of back of the bottle ant it isnt vw502. BUT on other websites such a opie oils they have put it as it does meet vw502. So they only sure fire way to know is fine the bottle that kwik fit used and check it / asked to see one of their fuchs oils bottles from the shelf. Or my firend just comes to me and changes out his oil altogether for me to put correct in to be on safe side. but he is abit annoyed about that as he paid for an oil service to have lasted matter of weeks. But hopefully this may help someone down the line when using kwik fit...trully was a "QUICK FIT" style of job and not in the good sense.

thanks again for help

RUM4MO said:

Yes, I'd expect even Kwik Fit to be better than that, looks that branch of Kwik Fit have some idiots working for them, maybe bring that to their attention or report this direct to Kwik Fit HQ, I'm sure that they will respond unless they are ruled by someone that acts like an Irish Airline CEO!

It is a bit confusing that you are finding that that oil is VW 502.00 certified on some websites and not on others and the Fuchs website, maybe Opie Oils think that it is "good enough" - or are making a mistake, I'd always go by what is written on the container as being the correct answer.

Edit:- I'd also be very annoyed with paying for a service then finding that to correct an error you needed to get the oil changed again!

Another Edit:- still on the Kwik Fit theme, once I went in to get a very slow puncture repaired really just to stop the need to pump up that tyre every two weeks - came away from there, got 200 yards down the road to find I had that tyre now flat - now you can pick up punctures anywhere and anytime, but I was very very annoyed about that!

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Well to provide abit more of an update. We have been in touch with Fuchs directly and they are recommeneding that this oil is not suitable for ages and model of the car even though, they sent a fact sheet confirming it does meet VW502.00 But still advised against a 10w 40 in our car and suggested some Fuchs 5w30 brands that are better. But on the other hand we spoke to SEAT and they said 10w 40 is OK but it need to meet the VW502.00 spec, so its the car maker saying one thing and the oil manufacturer saying the other. So we have spoke to head office kwik and they are planning to get back to us in the next few days, but we are hoping for a refund and then i plan to just do it my friend with the correct 5w40 VW502.00 Decent brand such as castrol (unless anyone can advise why not) and be on our way.

RUM4MO said:

Maybe check the price of Quantum Platinum or whatever they call it now, either on ebay or your local Skoda/VW/SEAT dealership 5W-40 is okay for 12 months service period.

It is a bit of a pain when you start digging deeper and finding conflicting answers to questions!

Edit:- £20 gets you a 5ltr can delivered to your address from Horton Skoda - obviously a genuine Skoda dealership, have a look on ebay!

Another Edit:- or you could ask for a price delivered from Mike who is on this forum - see his banner at the top?

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is that quantum platininum a good brand as i looked at this yesterday but seems very cheap for oil? is it any good or is it better to go abit more expsneive and get something like castrol

dm222 said:

Everytime my car went to the dealer from 2008 to 2012 they used 10W40.

I would use 5W40 VW502 if you usually do long trips (more than 10 miles) or 5W30 VW504 if you mainly do short trips.

5W40 protects more on running temperature and 5W30 when cold.

I'm using this right now:

Filtro de óleo BOSCH 0451103318 6,21 €
CASTROL Edge Titanium FST TD 5W-40 4L 34,20 €

It is what Castrol recommends for this engine at their website.

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Yeah seems to be such a grey area, it probably wont do any real harm. But engine oil is just such a mind field i find, as ive asked questions and people are up and down and all around. Whta my friends wants though is just to have a 5W40 in their car as evidence just seems to be more pushing fully syntethic over the 10w40 semi sythentic for the age and mileage on car. So hopefully friend can get money back and go from there

RUM4MO said:

That Quantum brand is VW Group's brand name for aftermarket consumables like oil and wipers and ---. So Quantum Platinum Fully Synthetic 5W-40 is perfect for these 1.4 16V engines, a good balance of quality and price, and as I said being sold by a Skoda main dealer's parts department - or ask Mike at Lister SEAT for a quote to supply you.

I will not discuss Castrol as it seems to offend some people on this forum if I mention it.

Edit:- I ran a 2000 VW Passat 4Motion 2.8V6 30V for 13 years and 85K miles on Quantum oils, initially Quantum Gold then after that stopped being sold I moved on to Quantum Platinum - did the same thing for a 2002 VW Polo for 13 years and 105K miles.

Another Edit:- now I seem to like wasting(?) money and I use Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP on all my VW Group cars that I find needing oil changes! Just habit maybe, Esso petrol and Mobil oils works for me.

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Well i have had SEAT tech department contact me and the have suggest quantum platinum / castrol edge / castrol magnatec for the oils of this engine. But such a mine field as castrol are probably who they have approved / teamed up with officially hence the plug of them. I just feel technicians and mechanics of 30- 50 years ago new more or cared more, as these things should not be such a worry. If anything Kwik fit should atleast say why they chose 10w 40 and explain to customers, when everywhere else is saying 5w40. Just some more transparency to customers who simply have a car to drive and nothing else. But it shows people today need to learn more about cars than what they think, if they dont want to be ripped off etc etc

dm222 said:

I guess he could try to get his money back, but they didn't do anything wrong if the oil they put has the VW502 spec...
if he wanted a 5W40 or 5W30 he should had ask before the oil change...

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Yeah if youlookback at previous posts, this seems like it couldbe the issue that the 10w 40 isnot to spec. on the bottle it is not to spec but on some website it is to spec. so we are going for a refund and see howw things go with it to be honest

RUM4MO said:

They are lazy idiots refilling it was that grade of oil! Normally that grade of oil is semi synthetic and okay for use on cars like a 40 year old SAAB 96. Fuchs, in general is a very good brand of oil and is the official supplier of oils to VW Group engine plants, but not that grade or version.

I tend to just use 5W-30 which was what VW Group would use on that engine if it was on variable/flexible servicing, and VW Group dealerships tended to use it for fixed/annual servicing - to avoid any mess ups with which oil to use where, now they tend to use 5W-40 for fixed servicing, but always a fully synthetic oil.

Edit:- that oil is a Fuchs oil, Titan is a group of engine oil product lines, that oil is listed as being suitable for VW cars that require oils of a spec 500.00 or 505.00 - but I'd always use a "5W" in UK temperatures.

Another edit:- the correct oil spec for use with petrol engines in a SEAT Ibiza 2009 model is - 501.00 or 502.00 or 504.00 - I have just checked that out in the official owners handbook in my daughter's Nov 2009 SEAT Ibiza 1.4 16V 86PS petrol.

VW Group sell cars all over the world so they are a bit reluctant to list the only correct grade of oil to use even while setting down the correct oil specs, so they do include for use 10W-40 but it has to be to the VW specs I've listed above - which Fuch do not claim that oil you mentioned to be to.

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Hey to everyone BIG UPDATE ON THIS:

So finally quik fit has got back to us, the operations manager has called and said it is the wrong oil and it was a technical error on their I,T Systems. They need to get the car back in to replace oil and filter, but i dont believe this is good enough i want my friend to get a fulll refund and an change, as due to the inconvenience of having to do al this research, worry about cars engine etc. Faith is lost in their quality of service, for them to do another oil change> Only way that is happening is if im their to SEE THEM PUT IN 5W 40. i will keep all posted but if anyone has any info they think i should ask or do, or anything from themselves would like me to ask or do respond to the post.

FURTHER UPDATE:

We took the car in yesterday and they had I insited that the car have the replacement oil done in front where it is in full view of everything. The head technician was a nice guy and allowed me to go out onto the floor and check anything and everything i wanted during and after the job. A rred flag was, when i asked to see all the parts, so it was a Mann oil filter and also Fuchs TITAN 5W40 Oil, to ensure all was correct. when i asked again "Although it is 5w40, is it to the VW spec" they still replied "What do you mean"? which begs you to wonder how much do they follow spec at Kwik fit, the may put in 5W30 / 5W40 etc etc but is it TO SPEC, in the end i had to look on the box (which yes they dont get oil in bottles, it comes in a box with a sealed bag inside - assuming this is a cost cutting measure / enivronment). But it was all too spec and all good and happy that evrything is correct. But again they said they ordered the 5w40 "in special for us". Which again it could them trying to over sell the lengths they went to, or shows that they dont stock fully synthetic on shelves and stock cheaper semi / conventional oil hence why they can charge cheap oil changes as it was only £64.00 ALL IN. If anyone else use kwik fit i would be interested to hear what oil they used in your car once they give you the invoice as the pricing structure just does not add up, with parts / labour / overheads to charge so little.

We are now lastly aiming for a complete refund of the interim service carried out originally to be able to walk away satisfied and believing kwik fit did right by us.

thanks again to all who helped and advised - more to follow soon