1.4 ecotsi 150bhp cambelt

[MA1601]

Hi guys recently bought a 2016 1.4 ecotsi 150bhp. Mileage is just short of 60k and no record of cambelt being done. I’ve read different things about the change interval on these ACT engines, some saying it’s a lifetime belt others say every 5 years.

I’ve also read that a special electronic tool is needed to get the timing right on these engines and that’s why it’s best to get the job done at Seat even though they charge £500. Can anyone confirm this? A local garage has quoted me £310 using genuine parts but I’m assuming they don’t have the correct tool.

Thanks

 

[Yern]

A number of people seem to have opted for the genuine dealer job, it comes with a Seat dealer warranty - CAMBELT KIT WITH 5 YR WARRANTY £539

 

[Glosphil]

My local VAG specialist says he has the tool & quoted £450.

 

[martin j.]

My local VAG specialist says he has the tool & quoted £450.

But does he give the 5 year warranty?
I just negotiated a bit of discount on the price, although I did work in the motor trade locally?

 

[Glosphil]

But does he give the 5 year warranty?
I just negotiated a bit of discount on the price, although I did work in the motor trade locally?

No, 1 year, but £90 saving. In some countries (Germany?) belt is quoted as 'for life' so is it likely to snap within the 3 years (maximum) beyond replacement to when I sell the car?

 

[RUM4MO]

Personally, I don't blame you for finding the need to change this belt and its associated tensioner and any idlers at this mileage, as it is an EA211 engine type, there is no "change" period in terms of time or miles officially, only needs changing when it starts to show signs of abnormal wear, so it should get inspected probably at every service from now onwards.

My wife has an August 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS which is another EA211 engine, its mileage currently is 42K miles but I will probably get a proper VW Group Indie to do that work later this year, just for peace of mind, they will have all the necessary kit needed and probably work more diligently than an official SEAT dealership workshop which will be hell bent in working to time/money targets - and in more need of the official warranty to cover their repair errors, that is if the small print really forces a pay out!

 

[MA1601]

Why do VW have to make things so complicated for! I called up a well respected indy (Midland VW) who quoted me £450 but they are an hour away.

I think I will end up going the main dealer route.

 

[SuperV8]

Personally, I don't blame you for finding the need to change this belt and its associated tensioner and any idlers at this mileage, as it is an EA211 engine type, there is no "change" period in terms of time or miles officially, only needs changing when it starts to show signs of abnormal wear, so it should get inspected probably at every service from now onwards.

My wife has an August 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI 110PS which is another EA211 engine, its mileage currently is 42K miles but I will probably get a proper VW Group Indie to do that work later this year, just for peace of mind, they will have all the necessary kit needed and probably work more diligently than an official SEAT dealership workshop which will be hell bent in working to time/money targets - and in more need of the official warranty to cover their repair errors, that is if the small print really forces a pay out!

But to properly 'inspect' the timing belt don't you need basically take it off - in which case you might as well fit a new belt?

 

[RUM4MO]

But to properly 'inspect' the timing belt don't you need basically take it off - in which case you might as well fit a new belt?

No, VW Group consider it adequate to just remove the top cover and carry out a visual examination of the outer and inner surfaces of the belt while turning the engine through one revolution. That is what they recommend at their outlines intervals.
I'd reckon that many owners and/or their "garage" will just remove the top cover, which does give "good" visibility of the belt, and go by what they find for the run/lengths of belt that presently within view, which is fair enough and maybe even enough to keep things safe, the better way of doing this regular check remains to be checking it over a complete revolution of that belt.

 

[Mr Pig]

The numbers I have in the service manual for the belt are 130,000 miles or five years. I worked in industry where these belts were common and you cannot tell when a belt will fail by looking at it. Teeth can come off when the outside of the belt still looks fine.

Belt quality is a big factor. I've seen cheap belts fitted to machines that lasted a matter of months. Whether you go the dealer or non-franchised route, make sure you get a good belt kit.

I went for the deal option because it wasn't that much more expensive and you get the five year warranty. This job also requires special alignment tools because of the ACT bits. Not all aftermarket garages will have them.

 

[RUM4MO]

But you can view both sides of these belts when the top cover is removed, these belts are not just the same old drive belts, they are made using longer lasting material then the earlier "change every 5 years" or so many K miles, they are now not (presently) a service item, as I have said in the past, I for one will not be waiting until it starts to fail due to inflicted damage by its associated idler rollers or tensioners, doing things that way sounds like me needing to be a very lucky person, I'll be getting a new "kit of parts" fitted probably later this year at round about the 8 year 48K miles point. I always changed cambelts in the past on these smaller engines at the recommended period which was 4 years and then 5 years - but back then the belts were just old school "short life" ribbed drive belts, and the drive train idlers/rollers and tensioners were "not really fit for purpose", hopefully improvements have been made in these EA211 engines.

I worked in an industry that abused these ribbed belts by having deflector plates to keep belt runs apart - but belt failure only meant that that type of machine stopped working with no knock on damage.

 

[Mr Pig]

I guess it comes down to how lucky you feel.

Years ago I had a Nissan Primera GT which had a timing chain. They were supposed to last the life of the car but the plastic liner on the belt guide could wear. The tell-tale was a slight rattle on start-up.

Mine was worn and I knew I'd have to fix it. I was in the process of working out how I was going to get this done when it let go, trashed the valves and effectively wrote off the car.

 

[Big Vinny]

I have found an excellent YT video showing the replacement of a tsi cambelt on a petrol car with Active Cylinder Control (ACT) which is the system which allows the engine to run on 2 cylinders only when not under load (I know you all know this). To change the cambelt on a 1.4 or 1.5 tsi EVO with ACT a toolkit is required and costs about £45 but the showstopper is the laptop and timing software needed to set the cam/valve timing for the EVO function. It looks to me like this needs to be done by either a VW dealer or VW specialist.

The good news is that water pump and coolant change are not required. This is definately one I will not be performing on the drive as I have done in the past. Replacement intervals are a mystery to me as well but the belt is easy enough to inspect at the top. I know for some engines like the old PD diesel engines one of the inspection criteria is to measure the belt width as ir rubs against the roller/tensioner :

 

[SuperV8]

I have found an excellent YT video showing the replacement of a tsi cambelt on a petrol car with Active Cylinder Control (ACT) which is the system which allows the engine to run on 2 cylinders only when not under load (I know you all know this). To change the cambelt on a 1.4 or 1.5 tsi EVO with ACT a toolkit is required and costs about £45 but the showstopper is the laptop and timing software needed to set the cam/valve timing for the EVO function. It looks to me like this needs to be done by either a VW dealer or VW specialist.

The good news is that water pump and coolant change are not required. This is definately one I will not be performing on the drive as I have done in the past. Replacement intervals are a mystery to me as well but the belt is easy enough to inspect at the top. I know for some engines like the old PD diesel engines one of the inspection criteria is to measure the belt width as ir rubs against the roller/tensioner :

It is £3000 just for the alignment tool! VAS 611007

How ridiculous to make what should be a simple aligning the cams mechanically an electronic process - sounds more like trying to make 'right to repair' impossible for any smaller business/DIYer.

This tool is inserted into the rear of the camshafts and allows for precise cam timing adjustments within a 3 degree margin when replacing the cambelt.

3 degrees doesn't sound very precise to me!

 

[MA1601]

Continuing the debate…

I paid for 1hr access on Seat Erwin (only £7) and downloaded the latest copy of the maintenance and service schedule.

In the toothed belt section for petrols, under normal air conditioning and traffic conditions there is no replacement interval (as opposed to countries with high levels of dust where replacement interval is 120,000km). Note says:

‘As a result of checks and durability tests the guidelines for checking the toothed belts have been deleted from the Seat service schedule. Unlisted engines do not have a toothed belt inspection or replacement interval.’

 

[RUM4MO]

For me, the smart thing to do is to remove the top cover and check the belt visually over its entire length and while that cover is off, check for any evidence that oil is leaking out from the variable timing cam shaft pulley/pulleys.

Edit:- also an annual look-see of the front end auxiliary drive belt condition does no harm.

 

[MattN]

Continuing the debate…

I paid for 1hr access on Seat Erwin (only £7) and downloaded the latest copy of the maintenance and service schedule.

In the toothed belt section for petrols, under normal air conditioning and traffic conditions there is no replacement interval (as opposed to countries with high levels of dust where replacement interval is 120,000km). Note says:

‘As a result of checks and durability tests the guidelines for checking the toothed belts have been deleted from the Seat service schedule. Unlisted engines do not have a toothed belt inspection or replacement interval.’

It should/could last the 'lifetime' of the car. In the same way other parts/components/items in the car could/should too. After all who expects the seat belts or the door locks or the radio...to last the lifetime of their car?

However, if any of these 'lifetime' items fail outside warranty it's still the owner of the car paying, not Seat. Same with the timing belt which in the event of failure is going to spoil your day. That's why I got it done and by the dealer for the 5yr peace of mind.

Your car. Your choice. Do you feel lucky (punk)?

 

[Mr Pig]

It should/could last the 'lifetime' of the car. In the same way other parts/components/items in the car could/should too. After all who expects the seat belts or the door locks or the radio...to last the lifetime of their car?

Tyres, oil...?

 

[MattN]

Tyres, oil...?

Please elaborate on your question or point you're trying to make. I am confused what tyres and oil have to do with whether or not timing belts are a lifetime item or not

 

[Mr Pig]

Please elaborate on your question or point you're trying to make. I am confused what tyres and oil have to do with whether or not timing belts are a lifetime item or not

You suggested that the timing belt should last the lifetime of the car because other parts do.

"It should/could last the 'lifetime' of the car. In the same way other parts/components/items in the car could/should too. After all who expects the seat belts or the door locks or the radio...to last the lifetime of their car?"

This completely ignores the fact that cars use many wear items which are either can't be made to last that long or can't be made to last that long cost effectively. Timing belts are one such item, like tyres and engine oil.