DSG Help

[billkent22]

Hello everyone,

been lurking on the forum for a bit so thought I would join.
I’m hoping you guys can give me a bit of help/reassurance.

I have a MK3 Leon FR 1.4 DSG

I have come across some Information on the DQ200 being awful and then stupidly googled it!

I’m really hoping that the issue have be resolved with this box as I really love the car and was planning on keeping it for a few more years yet.
The car is not driven hard, it is not mapped. Covered 39,000 miles.

Bill,

 

[Glosphil]

I am on my 2nd car with DSG. The 1st was 7 years old & on 82k miles when I sold - no problems.

Current car on 32k miles - no problems.

Reported problems were in hot countries (e. g. India) & solved with a change of oil specification?

 

[billkent22]

I am on my 2nd car with DSG. The 1st was 7 years old & on 82k miles when I sold - no problems.

Current car on 32k miles - no problems.

Reported problems were in hot countries (e. g. India) & solved with a change of oil specification?

Thank you for your reply, were both of yours the Dry clutch box?

I am starting to think a lot of people may be saying it’s bad because of its history, perhaps they don’t have any ‘real world’ experiences with it’.
also a lot of what I’ve seen seem to be older cars or ones that have been mapped (badly).
I understand it’s a weaker box and that things can go wrong at any time.

 

[Glosphil]

Thank you for your reply, were both of yours the Dry clutch box?

I am starting to think a lot of people may be saying it’s bad because of its history, perhaps they don’t have any ‘real world’ experiences with it’.
also a lot of what I’ve seen seem to be older cars or ones that have been mapped (badly).
I understand it’s a weaker box and that things can go wrong at any time.

First was wet-clutch 6-speed in an Octavia vRS diesel (170). Second is dry-clutch 7-speed in Leon 1.4TSi (150).

 

[andylong]

It's not awful but like all things it has some weaknesses.
A dry clutch wears more than a wet and oil changes anecdotally seem more important, maybe because there's not a lot of oil in the box to start with.
However it may not respond well to tuned engines, mapping and the like, given its placement in low powered cars .

 

[billkent22]

It's not awful but like all things it has some weaknesses.
A dry clutch wears more than a wet and oil changes anecdotally seem more important, maybe because there's not a lot of oil in the box to start with.
However it may not respond well to tuned engines, mapping and the like, given its placement in low powered cars .

Yea that is understandable, I would not map the car as I feel that would be asking for trouble!

 

[andylong]

You can also reprogram the gearbox to make the clutch etc work better/differently.

 

[Wrenched]

Am I right in thinking don't get a re map with a DSG as it risks problems? I've got a 2013 MK3 FR (148) and am considering a stage 1 but I havent pulled the trigger yet because I'm worried about strain on components like the DSG, flywheel etc.

 

[Mr Pig]

Am I right in thinking don't get a re map with a DSG as it risks problems?

Modding any car is a risk for this reason. Better parts cost more so manufacturers spec the parts for the power output of the car. The car owner may think that all of the other components are the same but they almost certainly aren't.

A few years ago I was looking at BMW 3 series and researching the engine options. I discovered that a lot of engines shared the same pistons, from low to high power variants. If you needed a new piston it was the same part for them all. However...

They did not leave the factory with the same pistons! Although they were interchangeable there were three different qualities of piston fitted depending on the power of the engine. Why go to the expense of a top quality piston if it's not needed? If you bought a piston as a spare part you got the best one, which simplifies the supply chain.

I once called a tuning company who could get something like 160bhp out of a Ford Ecoboost engine that left the factory with 90. First thing the guy said to me was 'Yes, you can do this, but don't!'. They had done it as a showcase of what they could do but he said that your reliability goes down the toilet. None of the rest of the car is built to take the power so you just start breaking things.

 

[Wrenched]

Modding any car is a risk for this reason. Better parts cost more so manufacturers spec the parts for the power output of the car. The car owner may think that all of the other components are the same but they almost certainly aren't.

A few years ago I was looking at BMW 3 series and researching the engine options. I discovered that a lot of engines shared the same pistons, from low to high power variants. If you needed a new piston it was the same part for them all. However...

They did not leave the factory with the same pistons! Although they were interchangeable there were three different qualities of piston fitted depending on the power of the engine. Why go to the expense of a top quality piston if it's not needed? If you bought a piston as a spare part you got the best one, which simplifies the supply chain.

I once called a tuning company who could get something like 160bhp out of a Ford Ecoboost engine that left the factory with 90. First thing the guy said to me was 'Yes, you can do this, but don't!'. They had done it as a showcase of what they could do but he said that your reliability goes down the toilet. None of the rest of the car is built to take the power so you just start breaking things.

Thanks, makes perfect sense. I thought because mine is only 148ps and there's a 184ps variant, same 2.0 engine then maybe most of the components are the same so taking it to around 199ps with a stage one shouldn't be too problematic. Really I need to find someone with the same engine as mine thats had the remap for a year or more and see how their car is getting on.

 

[andylong]

Back in the day tuning was a matter of replacing parts and you did it for the whole car from engine to suspension and it wasn't cheap. Parts were simple and the tuning scene had tried and tested combinations that worked.
For 300gbp now you can get way bigger increases but it's just the engine power and the rest gets overlooked unless it's pretty.
You will have extra stresses with more power, figuring out the weak link is the tricky bit.
That dsg is supposed to be ok up to 250bhp if you have it modified but standard it seems to be risky to add anything.

 

[Mr Pig]

I thought because mine is only 148ps and there's a 184ps variant, same 2.0 engine then maybe most of the components are the same so taking it to around 199ps with a stage one shouldn't be too problematic.

That might be true, I don't know, but it's very likely some things are different. For example we can often see that the brakes or turbo get bigger as the power goes up. Don't you think it's very likely that they also changed things that you can't see? Why wouldn't they? Why put a clutch that can take 250hp in a car that only puts out 150 for instance? There are at least seven versions of the DSG gearbox rated for torque from 250 to 600 N-m.

And then you've got your insurance to consider. A lot of the better insurance companies won't insure modified cars, because they know that guys who mod cars are more likely to crash them. Or you don't declare your mods and risk the insurance being voided if they find out.

 

[Wrenched]

That might be true, I don't know, but it's very likely some things are different. For example we can often see that the brakes or turbo get bigger as the power goes up. Don't you think it's very likely that they also changed things that you can't see? Why wouldn't they? Why put a clutch that can take 250hp in a car that only puts out 150 for instance? There are at least seven versions of the DSG gearbox rated for torque from 250 to 600 N-m.

And then you've got your insurance to consider. A lot of the better insurance companies won't insure modified cars, because they know that guys who mod cars are more likely to crash them. Or you don't declare your mods and risk the insurance being voided if they find th

 

[Wrenched]

There was a perfect illustration of this on You Tube, this guy got his VW stage 1 and the flywheel was only rated to 280N-m torque and the mod took it over 300. Long story short the car started juddering, he ended up changing the flywheel twice before realising it was the re map that caused the problem.

 

['& Son' managed]

There was a perfect illustration of this on You Tube, this guy got his VW stage 1 and the flywheel was only rated to 280N-m torque and the mod took it over 300. Long story short the car started juddering, he ended up changing the flywheel twice before realising it was the re map that caused the problem.

Errrr....wasn't a 1.5 TSI EVO was it?

 

[andylong]

My lowly 1.6tdi goes from 250ft lbs to 310, about 410Nm on a stage 1. You gotta think about these things