Cam Chain Tensioner

[Aspma]

Hi all,

New on here as I have a bit of a problem...

In short for the last 3 months my 2001 Seat Leon Cupra ( 180) has started rattling on startup. Muffled when cold with more of a whir like a pully isnt happy about being turned and much more clattery when warm. The hotter the louder the clatter. Only for a few seconds on startup and it stops as soon as you rev is slightly. After the first garage... replaced the starter motor - still same noise, then alternator pulley and tensioner - still same noise... I took it to a specialist ( independent) who at first had the same issue identifying the problem but eventually diagnosed it with a failed Camshaft Variable adjuster? When I asked them to explain they said it was a tensioner attached to the Cam Chain that adjusted in line with timing etc. Im not a mechanic so said ok how much...
£1'126... including vat. My only issue with this is that surely if the tensioner had failed it would do it all the time? and I also thought the cam was belt driven on these? Anyway dont know if anyone can help with any advice but Im reluctant to spend such and amount of money on a fault I have never heard of particularly when at the last service I had the cambelt done ( 60k) water pump etc etc along with the coil packs that set me back £800 4 months ago which need doing again as part of the same job?

My sister and dad both have different Audi's with the same engine and theres are well in 3 figures mileage wise with no issues...

 

[smivvy]

They are belt driven

They may have messed up the timing when the did your cam belt?

 

[Markyboyt]

Do these have variable cam timing?
and yes as you suspected and smivvy confirmed these engines are belt driven.

If your noise was just from cold then i'd guess at maybe tappets. Just out of curiosity when the car was last serviced they did use the correct grade didnt they?

 

[Aspma]

Do these have variable cam timing?
and yes as you suspected and smivvy confirmed these engines are belt driven.

If your noise was just from cold then i'd guess at maybe tappets. Just out of curiosity when the car was last serviced they did use the correct grade didnt they?

Yes they did it had cambelt service about 8000 miles ago just had full service with new plugs etc at same time as coil packs went so serviced a little early as it was there. Fully Synthetic Oil Correct plugs etc, new air filter - oil is still relatively clean on dipstick..

Spoken to them again this morning and they say its a twin cam and its the chain/s that go between them one at the top and one at the bottom with a variable tensioner at the top that adjusts to keep it tight. Its broken so it has become slack which causes it to slap at the top for a few seconds - starts to do it at start up when on its way out and eventually goes causing it to do it all the time. In fact for the first time this morning it started doing it at the lights while stationary... What puzzles me still is why it is so much louder when its started when hot rather than cold.. They also mentioned it may have been affected by stiff pully's on the alternator etc putting excess pressure on the adjuster?

On quote it says: Camshaft variable adjuster, Camshaft shaft, Chain assemby. Parts are £679 alone...

 

[Markyboyt]

Yes they did it had cambelt service about 8000 miles ago just had full service with new plugs etc at same time as coil packs went so serviced a little early as it was there. Fully Synthetic Oil Correct plugs etc, new air filter - oil is still relatively clean on dipstick..

Spoken to them again this morning and they say its a twin cam and its the chain/s that go between them one at the top and one at the bottom with a variable tensioner at the top that adjusts to keep it tight. Its broken so it has become slack which causes it to slap at the top for a few seconds - starts to do it at start up when on its way out and eventually goes causing it to do it all the time. In fact for the first time this morning it started doing it at the lights while stationary... What puzzles me still is why it is so much louder when its started when hot rather than cold.. They also mentioned it may have been affected by stiff pully's on the alternator etc putting excess pressure on the adjuster?

On quote it says: Camshaft variable adjuster, Camshaft shaft, Chain assemby. Parts are £679 alone...

Yes just looked on vagcom and it looks like this engine does use a chain to link the camshafts , sounds feasible.

 

[Markyboyt]

One thing I would add is that if that chain is slapping about then it stands a good chance of jumping teeth on the cam sprockets which is all bad news, if thats your problem thenyou want to be getting it rectified as a priority.

 

[Aspma]

One thing I would add is that if that chain is slapping about then it stands a good chance of jumping teeth on the cam sprockets which is all bad news, if thats your problem thenyou want to be getting it rectified as a priority.

Its going in today. Got a quote for just short of £700 with an agreement from the garage that should the work be done and it still makes that noise they keep replacing bits till its fixed... Surprisingly they agreed.

Get it back hopefully on friday.

 

[sexynips]

Did it get fixed?

 

[Aspma]

No.

New tensioners, cam belt, new tappets, new starter motor all new pullys, new everything... in the end they now think its worn valves.... but having spent over 1.5k trying to fix it got fed up and have left it. It works fine just rattles on start up. Done over 10k miles since and not got any worse so

 

[vee_dub_modder]

how many miles???? -- bearings

noisy on start up -- low oil pressure initially...
noisy when warm -- oil thins and it rattles more.

never seen a chain tensioner fail?? -- unless fettled!

take it to a Dealer... they cost more (Value for money) but then they are THE experts and will fix it right first time!

 

[vee_dub_modder]

No.

New tensioners, cam belt, new tappets, new starter motor all new pullys, new everything... in the end they now think its worn valves.... but having spent over 1.5k trying to fix it got fed up and have left it. It works fine just rattles on start up. Done over 10k miles since and not got any worse so

No chance. -- its not something really realy stupid like a plastic cover rattling on start up (missing fasteners) or an aircon pipe/heat shield is it?? if i had a penny for every time something like that has happened (apart from the huge bill along the way)

 

[Phillc]

The cam Cain tensioner is an internal part and is prone to wear due to plastic parts, it is a labour intensive replacement process so is expensive here is a link to the process.

 

[Phillc]

No chance. -- its not something really realy stupid like a plastic cover rattling on start up (missing fasteners) or an aircon pipe/heat shield is it?? if i had a penny for every time something like that has happened (apart from the huge bill along the way)

Vee Dub, i thought you had done this on your mates Skoda?

 

[vee_dub_modder]

yeah but only after another EXPERT had rebuilt the head and then couldnt find the fault after rebuilding/re-bodging lol! good memory though still loving that motor too!

 

[Aspma]

Its definately top end and the tensioner ( at the top ) was checked and all is in order. Both garages said it was unlikely to be that, and the guy tried to convince me to change the valves be demonstating how the rattle when it starts from warm is much faster then drops in speed before disappearing which does sound like worn valves to me oiling up and adjusting in sequence before going quiet like they should from the start... It had only done 58k when it started now done 88k.. I think whatever the issue is has been caused by low oil pressure at some stage in its life.. I have had the oil changed every 5k and the pressure has been checked and is fine obviously the previous owner didnt although again one of the garages said it looked like it had been stood for a while at some point which if not reserviced when used again could have caused the issue. I did ask how much it was to change the oil pump when I was interested in sorting it out but that was before I reaslised it is a component of the bottom end of the engine which was thousands in man hours and parts. And even they said that it appeared fine and wouldnt stop the rattle.

To be honest it has gone beyond bothering me... it rattles when it starts but is then fine and runs as good as it should so there we go. I will be changing it this year so whomever gets it in part x can have a go...

 

[Phillc]

To be fair this is fairly common mine does it to, it is something i will be looking at as not to keen on the rattlie diesel sound.

 

[paul-murphys]

did you sort yours out phil, i have the rattle so thinking of changing tensioner and also the hydralic tappets.

 

[hardcore4]

Just a thought guys, your oil pick up in your sump isnt partially blocked is it? This would cause tope end rattle when cold and would be a very cheap fix if its the fault, you could do it yourself!!

 

[Pyro]

This is normally what kills to the cam chain tensioner going

 

[Phillc]

did you sort yours out phil, i have the rattle so thinking of changing tensioner and also the hydraulic tappets.

Yeah I changed it and its as good as new, i got one from the States for £150 the price here was about £370, its not a hard job just a bit of a fiddle.

This is normally what kids to the cam chain tensioner going

What?

Just a thought guys, your oil pick up in your sump isnt partially blocked is it? This would cause tope end rattle when cold and would be a very cheap fix if its the fault, you could do it yourself!!

No its not that, already changed it.