Help-MOT fail query and no manual to ask!

[W24ght_cupra]

Hi all
Any help appreciated. Just failed MOT cos 'headlamp/sidelight won't stay on when ignition key removed'
All lights are OK, parking lights work but no lights on when light switch on and key removed. I have never really noticed if ever have worked in this state and no bl**dy manual to check.
Any pointers please

PS 2005 Leon TDI

Cheers
Wrighty

 

[GainfulShrimp]

Could this be something odd like you've got 'coming home lights' enabled but set to a 0sec delay... so your headlights stay on for 0 seconds before switching off?

My dipped lights stay on if I pull the key and lock the car, then switch off automatically a short while later. Because of this, I don't get any pinging noise to remind me if I've left them on. But I get a ping to remind me if I leave the sidelights switched on.

Sorry if that doesn't help. Can't think why else it would do it.

 

[Nath.]

On the mk2 leon the side lights should work with no key in but the proper lights will not work. Well mine don't and it's almost new and has no faults that I know of.

 

[tyke666]

That is an odd thing to test.
I don't think I have ever had an MOT done where the key is removed with the lights on.
The tester usualy sits in the car, ignition on, check brake lights, indicators, hazard flashers, side lights, dip beam, main beam (with a beam setter on each light to check alignement), fog light then he does the washers and wipers, horn ignition off. Then he's out of the car and checks the underneath etc.

 

[Tam]

WTF? - how is that an MOT failure?

 

[Fl@pper]

On vehicles fitted with dim-dip headlamp systems, the front position lamps must be checked for operation with the ignition switched off. This may involve the operation of a separate switch.

i would guess it's that

 

[Nath.]

^^^^^The Leon doesn't have dim dipped lights though, does it?

 

[Fl@pper]

^^^^^The Leon doesn't have dim dipped lights though, does it?

i suppose it depends on the legal classification of 'dim-dipped' as most new cars in fact have seperate bulbs nowadays but i would have said it's same as low/high beam as standard in uk ye

Dim-Dip Lamps

U.K. regulations briefly required vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1987 to be equipped with a dim-dip device[27] or special running lamps, except such vehicles as comply fully with ECE Regulation 48 regarding installation of lighting equipment. A dim-dip device operates the low beam headlamps (called "dipped beam" in the UK) at between 10% and 20% of normal low-beam intensity. The running lamps permitted as an alternative to dim-dip were required to emit at least 200 candela straight ahead, and no more than 800 candela in any direction. In practice, most vehicles were equipped with the dim-dip option rather than the running lamps.[27]

The dim-dip systems were not intended for daytime use as DRLs. Rather, they operated if the engine was running and the driver switched on the parking lamps (called "sidelights" in the UK). Dim-dip was intended to provide a nighttime "town beam" with intensity between that of the parking lamps commonly used at the time by British drivers in city traffic after dark, and dipped (low) beams; the former were considered insufficiently intense to provide improved conspicuity in conditions requiring it, while the latter were considered too glaring for safe use in built-up areas. The UK was the only country to require such dim-dip systems, though vehicles so equipped were sold in other Commonwealth countries with left-hand traffic.[28]

In 1988, the European Commission successfully prosecuted the UK government in the European Court of Justice, arguing that the UK requirement for dim-dip was illegal under EC directives prohibiting member states from enacting vehicle lighting requirements not contained in pan-European EC directives. As a result, the UK requirement for dim-dip was quashed.[27] Nevertheless, dim-dip systems remain permitted, and while such systems are not presently as common as they once were, dim-dip functionality was fitted on many new cars well into the 1990s.[citation needed]

[edit] Lateral

The Words 'Can Of Worms' comes to mind anyone wanna trip to europe - lol

by the way are they meant to stay on correctly as in is yours 'broke'

 

[W24ght_cupra]

Thanks for the replys, after much playing found the problem.......the tester!!
OK, its like this headlamps on, turn off ignition and remove keys, lights including side lights remain on for number of minutes then turn off automatically.
Took car back to garage and pointed this out only for him to say 'it states sidelights only should remain on not headlamps when key removed but suppose seeing that all lights are on, I'll pass it'........ta very much-how kind!

Moral of tale is that when he failed it he suggested headlamp selector was faulty, anyone more trusting or desperate for car to be passed may of gone down that road of repair, costly!

Ps I'm guessing everybodys headlight/sidelight set up is same??

 

[Fl@pper]

mine being pre 2000 is sidelight's on wether ignition or not - with engine running the main lights used to glow dim though a resistor

be interesting how it works on later cars now though

what happens if you unlock car and turn sides on without touching the iginition ?

 

[W24ght_cupra]

mmmmmmmm nothing. No ignition no lights until ignition turned on and off again
In fact just noticed all lights come on with sidelight selected, so may be there is a problem.

I knew that tester geeza was OK

 

[Bedlam]

Since you do not have a manual, and if you have a MK2 Leon......... to remove lighting switch panel

Remove Ignition key
Turn light switch to off (anti-clockwise)
Press knob in and turn clockwise.
This will release a retaining lug and the whole panel will be able to be pulled out

Also, did the "parking light" feature work, i.e. sidelights on, push/pull indicator stick up/down and the front and rear sidelights for that side will remain on?

 

[W24ght_cupra]

Thanks Bedlam, did try your method and small panel goes quite loose is there another clip to remove fully. Will try but no time to progress at moment.
The parking light via the indicator works OK but still no joy via headlamp switch, could well be switch then

 

[Nath.]

Since you do not have a manual, and if you have a MK2 Leon......... to remove lighting switch panel

Remove Ignition key
Turn light switch to off (anti-clockwise)
Press knob in and turn clockwise.
This will release a retaining lug and the whole panel will be able to be pulled out

Also, did the "parking light" feature work, i.e. sidelights on, push/pull indicator stick up/down and the front and rear sidelights for that side will remain on?

Don't think you need sidelights on for this, just use indicators with ignition off for left only or right only sidelights.

 

[FAST AL]

Does that mean that most people operate it wrongly as I mostly see other peoples side lights left on at the passenger side only when they leave the car temporarily parked on the road.They must need to have the indicators on right only then if thats the case.Not tried it yet.

 

[Bedlam]

Thanks Bedlam, did try your method and small panel goes quite loose is there another clip to remove fully. Will try but no time to progress at moment.
The parking light via the indicator works OK but still no joy via headlamp switch, could well be switch then

Took me 2 or 3 goes but it works, just be more than gentle in twisting knob but not rough!!!!!

 

[Bedlam]

Don't think you need sidelights on for this, just use indicators with ignition off for left only or right only sidelights.

Maybe not......Was writing from memory
Just thought it may help if tester was thinking a sidelight should be on somewhere....like hard shoulder as well as hazards

 

[Bedlam]

Thanks Bedlam, did try your method and small panel goes quite loose is there another clip to remove fully. Will try but no time to progress at moment.
The parking light via the indicator works OK but still no joy via headlamp switch, could well be switch then

What I really mean't was be rougher than gentle but not too rough twisting the lighting switch clockwise, you hear a click as the lug disengages.

There is only one lug which does this, it is a bit like the way a "Yale" door lock/catch works on a smaller scale.

Quite clever really although maybe not cheap to replace, some one last week got a price for the MK1 switch of £58 delivered
from Dave at Seremotors

 

[Bedlam]

Does that mean that most people operate it wrongly as I mostly see other peoples side lights left on at the passenger side only when they leave the car temporarily parked on the road.They must need to have the indicators on right only then if thats the case.Not tried it yet.

Yes I think it is, because they have indiated left to pull up, inadvertantly left the stalk down, turned the lights off and taken the ignition key out.

That's the way it works as well as leaving stalk up to leave offside lights on of course

 

[andycupra]

WTF? - how is that an MOT failure?

its a requirement that all vehicles can have side lights on when the ignition is off. Read up on your parking regulations. (look into parking on rural roads at night)

However in practice hardly anyone uses sidelights correctly.