Considering switching back to a MK3 Leon.

[Philk]

With all of the countless miles of cold weather test driving that the MK4 Leon and its sister the MK8 Golf have allegedly done, could someone please explain how the testers managed to operate the heating controls when getting into the car on a freezing cold day whilst wearing gloves? In every other car I have owned in the past, the rotary (or sliding lever) heating controls meant you could get into your freezing cold car with gloves on, start it, adjust the heat to maximum and drive off.

Oh, and another thought that crossed my mind as I prodded ineffectually at the screen.... did the designers consider how you could enter your primary user PIN on the touch screen whilst wearing gloves just to be able to start up the Infotainment system?

The primary goal of these systems should be to make the car owner's relationship to the car easier and more intuitive in all driving conditions. Sadly, the opposite appears to be the case here. Too many core systems on the car have been delegated to the touchscreen with little thought given to the varying operating conditions that users will experience.

I'm sad to say we're now considering going back to the MK3 Leon. A car we really loved and then waiting for the MK5 Leon to come out when, hopefully, some realisation of what car owners might actually want for their day to day journeys can be plumbed back in. This is not just my view. An elderly relative of ours who was considering swapping their existing SEAT to a newer model has now abandoned that idea. They cannot see how they would cope with interacting with the touch screen on a daily basis. Too complex and, with them having to wear varifocal glasses, too distracting as they would regularly need to shift their field of vision to read the screen and operate controls whereas they would intuitively know where to reach to on the dashboard to rotate a knob or press a switch.

Come on VAG, consider your loyal customer base when designing these things!

 

[Deleted member 123864]

Spec the smaller screen. It’s the same size as the large one in the Mk3. Has actual buttons. First World Problems solved. You can also speak to the car.

What sort of a normal person wears gloves while driving anyway?!

 

[Philk]

Spec the smaller screen. It’s the same size as the large one in the Mk3. Has actual buttons. First World Problems solved. You can also speak to the car.

What sort of a normal person wears gloves while driving anyway?!

Not sure what you can spec in your country but you certainly can't do that here if you want 150 bhp. From your flag, I'm guessing you're also in a warmer part of the world than us so may not have such cold mornings or you may be considerably younger and don't feel the cold!

 

[Educated Scruff]

I have leather driving gloves and I find they are ok when using the touch screen for the heater temp but then again it’s set at 22.5 on the climate control anyway, also I disabled the PIN as I just couldn’t be doing putting a PIN number in every time I get I the the car

 

[Mayberley]

I guess the official response would be that you can use the voice controls, set the temp on auto, take the gloves off for a second etc.

Obviously the lack of proper switches and buttons is annoying for some, but changing the entire car over it would seem a bit extreme? You can also get gloves that still work with touch devices.

Even the mk3 is going to need you to take your gloves off if you want to do anything with the touch screen too.

 

[Briskus]

I expect it all depends of different needs, so we have different wishes and problems. But my previous car did not had a touch screen, but even if it did, it would not have given a difference for me. I have ALWAYS my climate control on auto and 21c, all year long. The only time I make changes is if I need to do a quick defog of the windscreen. I never us gloves in cars, as soon the engine is warm it will blow warm into the cabin too, so normally the cabin will be warm quite quickly. But an luxury new thing in my Leon is the heated steering wheel (it's standard in Danish FR's), I will probably use it sometimes and it have a physical button for that.

 

[Seriously?]

With all of the countless miles of cold weather test driving that the MK4 Leon and its sister the MK8 Golf have allegedly done, could someone please explain how the testers managed to operate the heating controls when getting into the car on a freezing cold day whilst wearing gloves? In every other car I have owned in the past, the rotary (or sliding lever) heating controls meant you could get into your freezing cold car with gloves on, start it, adjust the heat to maximum and drive off.

Oh, and another thought that crossed my mind as I prodded ineffectually at the screen.... did the designers consider how you could enter your primary user PIN on the touch screen whilst wearing gloves just to be able to start up the Infotainment system?

The primary goal of these systems should be to make the car owner's relationship to the car easier and more intuitive in all driving conditions. Sadly, the opposite appears to be the case here. Too many core systems on the car have been delegated to the touchscreen with little thought given to the varying operating conditions that users will experience.

I'm sad to say we're now considering going back to the MK3 Leon. A car we really loved and then waiting for the MK5 Leon to come out when, hopefully, some realisation of what car owners might actually want for their day to day journeys can be plumbed back in. This is not just my view. An elderly relative of ours who was considering swapping their existing SEAT to a newer model has now abandoned that idea. They cannot see how they would cope with interacting with the touch screen on a daily basis. Too complex and, with them having to wear varifocal glasses, too distracting as they would regularly need to shift their field of vision to read the screen and operate controls whereas they would intuitively know where to reach to on the dashboard to rotate a knob or press a switch.

Come on VAG, consider your loyal customer base when designing these things!

Mrs S has categorically stated that when we replace her MK3 it won't be with a MK4 : she took one look at the infotainment system and everything it controlled and stated that it was a very silly idea. Well, that's the public forum version of what she said

 

[Philk]

Obviously the lack of proper switches and buttons is annoying for some, but changing the entire car over it would seem a bit extreme? You can also get gloves that still work with touch devices.

There's obviously other factors in play too. We don't find the seats as comfortable as previously due to the longer seat bases, the lane assist function is way too intrusive on the 40 mph roads we have around here and we don't find the ride as good with the different rear suspension set up. Then, in addition, is the flaky infotainment system and the fact that it switches to "limited connectivity" for days at a time.

 

[Deleted member 123864]

Not sure what you can spec in your country but you certainly can't do that here if you want 150 bhp. From your flag, I'm guessing you're also in a warmer part of the world than us so may not have such cold mornings or you may be considerably younger and don't feel the cold!

You might want to up your knowlege of flags. I'm your nearest neighbour. We only threw you lot out 99 years ago

The smaller screen is available on the SE in the UK.

 

[Philk]

You might want to up your knowlege of flags. I'm your nearest neighbour. We only threw you lot out 99 years ago

The smaller screen is available on the SE in the UK.

Geography and Flags was never my strong suit!

Was not aware of the fact that the SE was set up like that with buttons as well as the smaller screen (there are no photos of that in the brochure we have). We had a MK3 FR 150 and wanted to stay with that BHP (which ruled out the SE and SE Dynamic). As such, we ended up automatically with the 10 inch screen and all that comes with it.

 

[Deleted member 123864]

Geography and Flags was never my strong suit!

Was not aware of the fact that the SE was set up like that with buttons as well as the smaller screen (there are no photos of that in the brochure we have). We had a MK3 FR 150 and wanted to stay with that BHP (which ruled out the SE and SE Dynamic). As such, we ended up automatically with the 10 inch screen and all that comes with it.

I’ll forgive you this once!

Oddly enough, the smaller screen is standard on the FR too here, which however does have 18” wheels as standard instead of your standard 17s. Sometimes Seat Ireland make no sense to me.

 

[Tell]

Seems you need a pair of those conductive smartphone gloves I'd put on waiting for a train but not as warm as my leather gloves . Kept them in my pocket ready. Any self respecting driver has a pair of leather gloves for winter driving although with a heated steering wheel not so essential apart from getting in and out of the car. Covid aware I use an old pair of synthetic for the shopping run at the minute.

Useful video for DIY conversion of your gloves (pass on wrecking quality leather driving gloves)

 

[seatgraham]

Seems you need a pair of those conductive smartphone gloves I'd put on waiting for a train but not as warm as my leather gloves . Kept them in my pocket ready. Any self respecting driver has a pair of leather gloves for winter driving although with a heated steering wheel not so essential apart from getting in and out of the car. Covid aware I use an old pair of synthetic for the shopping run at the minute.

Useful video for DIY conversion of your gloves (pass on wrecking quality leather driving gloves)

I never wear gloves in the car. But I do have some touchscreen gloves (Christmas present) which work okay. Not quite as good on iPhone as without gloves.
However, I rarely change climate settings (on mk3). Let the climate do its stuff.
I live up north and even on the coldest winter days manage without gloves or heating steering wheel. That said, my current mk3 does have heated seats, which do get used

 

[Tell]

I never wear gloves in the car. But I do have some touchscreen gloves (Christmas present) which work okay. Not quite as good on iPhone as without gloves.
However, I rarely change climate settings (on mk3). Let the climate do its stuff.
I live up north and even on the coldest winter days manage without gloves or heating steering wheel. That said, my current mk3 does have heated seats, which do get used

Normally cast the leather gloves off after 5 miles. You can do a hand trick with leather gloves of putting your hand verticals and opening and closing hand ?. Synthetics you can't, which I switched too in Covid times. Heated seats are good. I do whip them off for adjusting controls but don't have the Leon 4.

I see posted up, think it was a foreign board they use a technique of placing hand on the infotainment console at the top to anchor it in a fixed known point, then move appropriate fingers to find the relevant control. Leon 4 in the dark technique. Think that is a LHD method, using your right hand thumb on the bottom controls... possibly isn't so useful on RHDs with the left-hand.

 

[seatgraham]

Normally cast the leather gloves off after 5 miles. You can do a hand trick with leather gloves of putting your hand verticals and opening and closing hand ?. Synthetics you can't, which I switched too in Covid times. Heated seats are good. I do whip them off for adjusting controls but don't have the Leon 4.

I see posted up, think it was a foreign board they use a technique of placing hand on the infotainment console at the top to anchor it in a fixed known point, then move appropriate fingers to find the relevant control. Leon 4 in the dark technique. Think that is a LHD method, using your right hand thumb on the bottom controls... possibly isn't so useful on RHDs with the left-hand.

That anchor technique sounds like a reliable method. That's progress for you!