Front coil spring broken... Do Audi / VW / Seat share parts?

[Speedbird]

Driving in to work today, the front left suspension started making an awful crunching sound over the slightest bump or uneven surface on the road. Suspected it was either a coil spring, shock absorber or some sort of mount problem. Dropped it off at the garage and it is the coil spring, so I'm getting both fronts replaced. Very surprised as my car only drives on motorways mainly.

I am starting to question the quality of Seats... The car is on 60k miles, and a coil spring has broken. At 35k, both rear shock absorbers were replaced. At around the same time, the oil pressure sensor failed.

I have had an Audi A3 and that car was problem free up until I got rid of it at 90k miles. I think this Leon has been the most unreliable car I have owned. Are components shared between the VW Group? I'm looking to get a VW Tiguan this year, and I'm just wondering if that will start suffering faults so soon? Or because they are made in Germany, are they generally more reliable?

 

[adam davies]

All parts are shared audi vw seat vag range. Aparts from skin of the car and a pillar b pillars etc.

 

[martin j.]

When working in a garage I often ordered parts from the Skoda dealer regardless of which of the group it was for if possible, I got a better discount there but parts came in AudiVW group bags.

 

[Mr Pig]

The parts may come through the same supply chain but that doesn't mean that the parts are shared across the brands. Many are, the Golf and Leon share almost 60% of their parts, but not all. If you buy a Leon you're not getting a Golf for less money. The car is cheaper because some of the parts are cheaper.

You know this is true because you can see that the interior of the Leon does not use parts that are of the same quality as those used on the golf. Do you honestly think that Seat would use cheaper parts in such a highly visible area yet not use cheaper parts where you can't see them? Or that the difference in price is just down to the quality of the dashboard?

If Seat used the same springs and dampers etc as those on an Audi, the Seat would drive and ride exactly like the Audi. Do you think VW would even want that? It is almost certain that the springs are not the same as the ones used by Audi.

Incidentally, my son's Ibiza broke a rear spring at about 20K miles. I think there were two main contributing factors. The springs are covered in thick paint and I reckon some of it was scratched off when putting the springs in place at the factory. Both springs were rusted at the point where one of them had snapped.

And secondly yes, UK roads really are that bad! Between the millions of pot holes and speed bumps it is little wonder that springs break. Also worth mentioning that our love of large wheels doesn't help. twenty-five to thirty years ago a typical medium hatchback had wheels that were thirteen or fourteen inches. Today, probably seventeen or maybe eighteen? So less shock being absorbed by the tyre and more the suspension has to deal with.

 

[RUM4MO]

The road springs will be listed by "weight range" and type, ie "non sport" or "sport chassis" or "heavy duty" - not all VW Group marques will list all versions/weight ranges for all models.

Seat being deliberately more "sport" orientated will tend to use slightly stiffer and even shorter springs.

One thing I bumped into on my daughter's previous car, a late 2009 Ibiza 1.4 16V SC, was that the SC as that stands for Sports Coupe, used "sports chassis" version of the springs on the rear and usual "non sports" on the front.

Edit:- other maybe not unexpected thing is, a B8 Audi S4 has far more compliant but stiff and shortened road springs than the B8 S-Line cars that were fitted with proper S-Line suspension (some only came with bigger diameter and lower profile tyres, while other came with the complete S-Line package), it seems like the fully kitted out S-Line A4 would knock any tooth fillings you had out, while the "real thing", ie S4 would not, which is handy as I have one of them and have no issues with the S4 set up.

 

[Jazzjames]

The parts may come through the same supply chain but that doesn't mean that the parts are shared across the brands. Many are, the Golf and Leon share almost 60% of their parts, but not all. If you buy a Leon you're not getting a Golf for less money. The car is cheaper because some of the parts are cheaper.

You know this is true because you can see that the interior of the Leon does not use parts that are of the same quality as those used on the golf. Do you honestly think that Seat would use cheaper parts in such a highly visible area yet not use cheaper parts where you can't see them? Or that the difference in price is just down to the quality of the dashboard?

If Seat used the same springs and dampers etc as those on an Audi, the Seat would drive and ride exactly like the Audi. Do you think VW would even want that? It is almost certain that the springs are not the same as the ones used by Audi.

Incidentally, my son's Ibiza broke a rear spring at about 20K miles. I think there were two main contributing factors. The springs are covered in thick paint and I reckon some of it was scratched off when putting the springs in place at the factory. Both springs were rusted at the point where one of them had snapped.

And secondly yes, UK roads really are that bad! Between the millions of pot holes and speed bumps it is little wonder that springs break. Also worth mentioning that our love of large wheels doesn't help. twenty-five to thirty years ago a typical medium hatchback had wheels that were thirteen or fourteen inches. Today, probably seventeen or maybe eighteen? So less shock being absorbed by the tyre and more the suspension has to deal with.

Don’t really understand how you came to 60% but it seems reasonable.

Seat uses a lot of slightly older VW/Audi tech. With the Seat Exeo they didn’t really even bother to redesign the A4 it was based on (no bad thing!).

My Leon is riddled with Audi and VW badges on components. I’ve had a few VWs and they’ve been reliable. My Leon is pretty faultless apart from a couple of the known problems like the fuel filler flap actuator failing.

Modern cars are so complex, it’s to be expected that some things go wrong. If you want a really reliable car, just look at which makes come out on top of the big surveys. Hint: it’s not VAG cars. I do however believe that if you’re mechanically sympathetic to a car, it will look after you, and touch wood it’s worked out for me.

Suspension is made from consumable parts (in my opinion), it will wear out eventually.

If you want to know the reliability of a Tiguan, go and ask the Tiguan owners on PH or on their forum if they have one. Most likely they’ll have the same issues as similar cars across the whole group.

 

[Mr Pig]

Don’t really understand how you came to 60% but it seems reasonable.

I read it from a reputable source not that long after the MK3 Leon came out.

The only way you are going to get springs which are identical to the ones you are replacing is to buy them from VW/Audi giving them your reg/chassis number. There are variations across models and often changes during production runs but VW keeps records of exactly what went into your car.

Last year we replaced the rear springs on my son's Ibiza. We got the new ones from TPS and they were identical to the original ones, including coloured dots.

 

[RUM4MO]

@Mr Pig, and the Ibiza springs supplied from TPS probably had made in Czech Republic on the packaging, ie Skoda made like too many of the Polo and Ibiza parts, their quality of steel used never seems to be as good as expected from VW Group, maybe they buy low grade steel from UK as most of it is low grade steel and the very reason why British Steel keep failing is that part of the steel market is over subscribed to.

I like to try to buy any road springs I need from one of the Swedish based spring suppliers - in a bid to avoid them failing at an early point in their life, okay UK roads do cause most/many of these failures, but the Skoda made springs seem to snap a lot quicker.

 

[Mr Pig]

@Mr Pig, and the Ibiza springs supplied from TPS probably had made in Czech Republic on the packaging

A lot of the VW group parts come from there. The problem is that if you buy springs from somewhere else you have got no idea if it's the right ones. They changed the suspension settings on the facelift cars so there is a difference there. The Ecomotve sits lower but does not have the same springs as the FR which sits at the same height.

At the very least I'd want to replace all four so that they match each other.

 

[RUM4MO]

A lot of the VW group parts come from there. The problem is that if you buy springs from somewhere else you have got no idea if it's the right ones. They changed the suspension settings on the facelift cars so there is a difference there. The Ecomotve sits lower but does not have the same springs as the FR which sits at the same height.

At the very least I'd want to replace all four so that they match each other.

My main issues that I've ever had with duff parts on Polos and Ibizas is down to VW Group sensibly sharing parts across their marques, and in the case of Polo, Ibiza and A1, that will CZ manufactured parts as the initial model in this range was Skoda Fabia and still many parts are carried over, ie still being used in later versions of these cars. The quality or suitability of the steel used in these Skoda or Skoda supplier factories is not what I'd be expecting from what I need to pay for a VW car. It is maybe 14 or 15 years since I first needed to take a VW Polo suspension apart and it was a genuinely terrible shock to my system - soft deforming metal everywhere. In later years taking my 2000 VW Passat apart it was a completely different experience (I was an older Audi B5 based car).
I think that Skoda Octavia buyers are probably getting a bargain as the hidden parts will mainly be coming from factories where the demanded quality is higher as Octavia is based on Golf.

 

[Mr Pig]

I think everything is getting made cheaper these days. However I still think the main reason springs fail more often is bad roads and big wheels. Cars are heavier too. If you put all that extra load on springs something has to give.

 

[RUM4MO]

Oh yes as many suppliers are moving East as possible, and car makers also heading for even cheaper OEM supplies like Mando brake callipers and pads, and similar manufacturer for windscreen wiper blades (General Mogul), seems like the best plan is to bin the Mando pads and fit parts from previous brake suppliers, same for wiper blades.

The Swedish road spring supplier that I was hinting at sells under 2 brand names and their core business is making springs for everything, so they will have the exactly correct specs for all cars and not just like for instance Pagid selling/boxing up for ECP only maybe 4 options to cover 8 different VW Group part numbers - though I've bought them when in desperate need!

 

[Mr Pig]

Oh yes as many suppliers are moving East as possible, and car makers also heading for even cheaper OEM supplies like Mando brake callipers and pads, and similar manufacturer for windscreen wiper blades

It's not just VW but cost cutting is rife across manufacturers and has been for years. I remember the shock of seeing my first plastic intake manifold. Had a plastic coolant manifold crack on my Mazda 6.

They're becoming expert in juggling the balance between cost and reliability. They are no longer looking for ultimate reliability or longevity, just acceptable reliability for the length of the warranty.

 

[t0m_t0m]

VAG are renowned for corrosion in moderately wet climates whether it be SEAT, VW, Audi or Skoda. I've seen videos online of Audi's and VW's of roughly the same age as my Mk2 (younger in wetter climates) from different places across the globe that have suffered from coil spring breaks and the same sort of rear sub-frame corrosion. I'd say you might have been lucky with your A3. The majority of hidden components are the same across the cars, the part numbers are identical on may components, cosmetic stuff is a different matter though for obvious reasons. Suspension will also differ slightly due to the different ride heights, stiffness, etc between models but they are likely made in the same factory and of the same materials. Things aren't built to last these days, cheaper manufacturing with higher retail cost, lesser anti-corrosion due to health & safety and environmental reasons, SEAT used to offer a 10 year anti-corrosion on bodywork (not component/frame/chassis) and what do you know as my Mk2 hit 10 & 1/2 years the rear arches started to show a very small bit of bubbling under the paint.

 

[Mr Pig]

VAG are renowned for corrosion in moderately wet climates whether it be SEAT, VW, Audi or Skoda.

I don't think it's fair to single out VAG cars on this as most brands are just as bad. You'll be lucky to find many cars that do not have a spot of rust at ten years old.

In fact, I think SEAT cars are better than average. I put it down to Spain being in inherently sensible place to build things that are made out of sheets of steel. Hot and dry. You remember how badly British made cars used to rust in the seventies? Tons of steel sitting outside for months before it was used. Cars were rusty before they left the factory!

So what cars are better than Seat? Ford? don't think so. Japanese? You've got to be kidding. Sure, Seats have a few weak areas but if you're checking your car properly you shouldn't have any more problems than you might on any other brand.

 

[Speedbird]

I had both my front springs replaced, came to just over £300 with tracking. I had it done at a local independent, so I doubt very much they are OEM springs. Funny thing is, the car feels a tiny bit softer and a bit more comfortable now. It is an FR with 17" wheels, but I've always found the ride firm, especially over bumps. It feels a little better now. Whether that be a different spring brand, maybe the old ones were losing their elasticity and going brittle, I don't know.

To be fair, I have had mostly Fords before my Leon. Last 2 cars were a Focus 2.5 ST and then a Kuga, and both had less problems than my Leon has had over a longer period. Cam belt intervals are 10 years aswell. Am now reconsidering if I actually want a Tiguan, or maybe another Kuga.

 

[Mr Pig]

I had both my front springs replaced, came to just over £300 with tracking. I had it done at a local independent, so I doubt very much they are OEM springs. Funny thing is, the car feels a tiny bit softer and a bit more comfortable now.

They're probably not FR springs, they'll be the Comfort/standard ones.