jtr

Active Member
Feb 22, 2008
54
0
Sorry if this has already been asked but couldn't find a thread.

I replaced the tyres (all round) on my FR TDI in March of this year and after about 8k notice the fronts are wearing, where as the backs look brand new. I was wondering what the opinion was on rotating the back to the front. I know it means forking out for 4 tyres at a time but is the extra wear from putting the front on the back worth it?

Thanks in advance.
 
The general consensus is to put the tyres with the most tread on the rear axle as understeer is earlier to control than oversteer.

Check out some of the tyre manufacturer's sites as they'll have more info on this.
 
Am thinking I should do this next time I replace the fronts. The car is on 24K and half way through its second set of fronts but the rears look brand new. I know Autoexpress have been highlighting the danger of older rubber. This would also fit in with the best tread being on the rear, which I've also heard before (remember seeing some TV programme doing wet weather breaking).
 
Sorry if this has already been asked but couldn't find a thread.

I replaced the tyres (all round) on my FR TDI in March of this year and after about 8k notice the fronts are wearing, where as the backs look brand new. I was wondering what the opinion was on rotating the back to the front. I know it means forking out for 4 tyres at a time but is the extra wear from putting the front on the back worth it?

Thanks in advance.

I would replace the fronts but then put your current rears to the front so that you have your new tyres are the back. Like it was said in an earlier post and from several other sources you should always put newer tyres at the back.
Alex
 
76K on rears - still got about 2.5 - 3mm left :)

Fronts ... well ..errr ... Think i'm on my 7th set :D remapped diesels :shrug: :D
 
76K on rears - still got about 2.5 - 3mm left :)

Fronts ... well ..errr ... Think i'm on my 7th set :D remapped diesels :shrug: :D

How old is your car?
 
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I recently had to have both fronts replaced after a blowout on the M56 (not recommended..:drive1:) and the Costco fitter said they always recommend to customers to have the new tyres fitted on the rear and they move the rear wheels to the front and re-balance if necessary..FOC.
 
I recently had to have both fronts replaced after a blowout on the M56 (not recommended..:drive1:) and the Costco fitter said they always recommend to customers to have the new tyres fitted on the rear and they move the rear wheels to the front and re-balance if necessary..FOC.

Ok, then I conclude there should be no rotation until the front tyres are worn enough and therefore replaced ? :headhurt:
 
Not sure whether rotation is necessary myself :confused: , unless as you say you need to replace the front tyres once they're worn, then just put the new ones on the rear, rears on the front, and so on...at least that way you should only be needing to fork out for 2 corners each time...:shrug:
 
Maybe I'm old school but to me the logical equation would be;
Braking, done approximately 65% by front wheels,
Drive, done 100% by front wheels,
Rainwater clearance (due to rear wheels following track of front wheels most of the time) probably 70% by front wheels,
Weight distribution 60% on front tyres,
Therefore surely it follows that the most grip ie. best and newest tyres should be on the front, I agree that understeer is easier to control than oversteer but front wheel drive road cars are always set up with an understeer bias and ESP will usually take care of oversteer.

If there is a logical reason why I'm wrong I'll be happy to change my view but I really can't think of one

After looking at tyre wear/stopping distance charts I think its important to realise that tyres at 2mm take approximatley 80% more stopping distance in extreme wet than new tyres.
 
Maybe I'm old school but to me the logical equation would be;
Braking, done approximately 65% by front wheels,
Drive, done 100% by front wheels,
Rainwater clearance (due to rear wheels following track of front wheels most of the time) probably 70% by front wheels,
Weight distribution 60% on front tyres,
Therefore surely it follows that the most grip ie. best and newest tyres should be on the front, I agree that understeer is easier to control than oversteer but front wheel drive road cars are always set up with an understeer bias and ESP will usually take care of oversteer.

If there is a logical reason why I'm wrong I'll be happy to change my view but I really can't think of one

After looking at tyre wear/stopping distance charts I think its important to realise that tyres at 2mm take approximatley 80% more stopping distance in extreme wet than new tyres.

rear wheels dont always follow the fronts, (eg going around a corner) and also the level of rain may be significant leading the water clearance being negligable, or even no clearance at all.
Also consider that aquaplaning is an issue. The rear of the car weighs less and can therefore be potentially more suspectible to aquaplaning if the correct conditions are in place, which is where the upthrust of the water over comes the displacement and weight of the tyres passing through, or over the water.
Yes ESP is a great facility, (and those that turn it off all the time are being silly, and yes i know its not 100% off..) but ESP isnt going to help 100% of the time and driving in a manner or having a car set up that ESP is routinely required to prevent you leaving the road is simply suicidal. There is a limit to what ESP can do, aqua planing means there is little or no grip for the ESP to use and can render it near useless.

Braking; well there is a reason why more braking is done by the front than the rear (its often more than 60% front); - you can only brake as much as the tyres will allow/grip the road surface. Yes fronts brake more, - more weight and frontal inersia during braking mean that more braking force can be applied before the wheels may lock. For a wheel/tyre to lock during braking, the force or resistance applied by the brakes needs to overcome the resistance or force applied to turn the wheel via friction between tyres and road surface. This means that less force is required to lock the rear wheels, thus the brake bias applied by the car. If you further exagerate this by having tyres that behave significantly different to the fronts than the rears you are more likely to lock or loose grip.

I can understand the theory of your argument and why you may think that, but experience of many drivers will tell you new tyres at front, old at rear is a real no no.

It is intersting that you have stated in your post that tyres with 2mm tread take 80% longer to stop than new tyres in extreme wet. - ok so ask yourself this:
If i braked and my rear tyres took 80% longer to stop than the fronts did, - what has just happened?
:)
and then think the same, but with the front more worn...
 
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Maybe I'm old school but to me the logical equation would be;
Braking, done approximately 65% by front wheels,
Drive, done 100% by front wheels,
Rainwater clearance (due to rear wheels following track of front wheels most of the time) probably 70% by front wheels,
Weight distribution 60% on front tyres,
Therefore surely it follows that the most grip ie. best and newest tyres should be on the front, I agree that understeer is easier to control than oversteer but front wheel drive road cars are always set up with an understeer bias and ESP will usually take care of oversteer.

If there is a logical reason why I'm wrong I'll be happy to change my view but I really can't think of one

After looking at tyre wear/stopping distance charts I think its important to realise that tyres at 2mm take approximatley 80% more stopping distance in extreme wet than new tyres.

I'm no expert on tyres but the rolling Michelin video footage being shown in the Costco waiting room showed a demo of a car with new fronts and worn rears cornering at the limit and it was all over the place. Whereas swapped over with the new rubber at the rear and part worn on the fronts the car appeared to handle much better on the limits of grip in both wet and dry conditions.
 
Thanks for the advice. Also spoken with a tyre service garage and they have advised to leave them and replace the front in a couple of thousand miles but put the new tyres on the rear. Will give this a try and see how things go - slightly worried with putting the rears on the front as the last ones on the rear had gone like 50p's.
 
I understand the points made (especially andycupra's), and I would not put tyres with anything less than 3-4mm on the rear with better ones on the front, but where the fronts have =>5mm on, is there a problem about rotating these with the virtually new rears? I did this a couple of thousand miles ago with mine, and I've felt no reduction in grip.
 
The thing is, you may not notice the reduction in grip until you need it but it's too late because you had to brake in a corner and went off the road.

Why rotate tyres so they all wear out at the same time? Put the new ones on the back, old on the front so you always have the newest tyres possible and only pay for 2 at a time.
 
I understand the points made (especially andycupra's), and I would not put tyres with anything less than 3-4mm on the rear with better ones on the front, but where the fronts have =>5mm on, is there a problem about rotating these with the virtually new rears? I did this a couple of thousand miles ago with mine, and I've felt no reduction in grip.

greater than 5mm is probably considered to be not ideal but ok.