Wavetrac LSD on Cupra R?

[Gagwithgaffer]

Gents,

In preparation for my Revo 3 upgrade, I have spoken to various tuning companies who swear blind to go for the Wavetrac Limited Slip Differential.

One company quoted me £1600 supply & fit...???

I am tempted to buy the unit myself from Courtneysport.co.uk and then just pay a garage to fit it for me (money saving markup reduction exercise!)

Can anyone advise on the likely installation time and costs?

Any tuning companies reading this fancy quoting a better price?

I haven't yet done any upgrades to handling (apart from Revo engine mounts if that counts) All the tuning companies I have spoken to have recommended different things and do not really know to listen to (my dilemma of the century)

The general opinion is to upgrade handling before adding any more goodies to the engine. Between all parties, they have advised to fit a Limited Slip Differential (wavetrac was quoted every time) an upgraded coilover kit, poly bushes and some anti-roll bars.

This is all going to cost a lot of money even before I fork out for the Garrett turbo upgrade.

I am keen to know the general opinion on what is essential and what is not?

Thanks chaps

 

[AndrewJB]

AKS Tuning fella only guy i would trust with my LCR now!

Wavetrac does seem to be recommended highly! i've got Quaife simply because i got it Super cheap.

Yes i would look at handling, Coilovers, ARB's, Bushes, Even brakes

What turbo kit is it you want to fit? I think Stage2+ is plenty enough for FWD, if the LCR was AWD like the Golf R then i would be getting the APR kit for mine but im not bothering with FWD

 

[LVS Racing]

We have fitted many Wavetrac Diffs now, mainly in K1s on full stage2+ upgrades.

They work extremely well. £1600 seems to be about the going rate to supply and fit one, but well worth the money imo.

 

[Gagwithgaffer]

AKS Tuning fella only guy i would trust with my LCR now!

Wavetrac does seem to be recommended highly! i've got Quaife simply because i got it Super cheap.

Yes i would look at handling, Coilovers, ARB's, Bushes, Even brakes

What turbo kit is it you want to fit? I think Stage2+ is plenty enough for FWD, if the LCR was AWD like the Golf R then i would be getting the APR kit for mine but im not bothering with FWD

I'm looking at two turbo options:

Option 1 - K04 Hybrid

Replace the standard K04 unit with the K04 Hybrid version - the hybrid unit has uprated internals and is CNC machined/bored out to give higher flow through and faster/more consistent spin up throughout the rev range.

One particular tuning company quoted around 3.5k for a remap and the hybrid upgrade saying bang for bucks is the best upgrade to do. The hybrid turbo will give a guaranteed output of 400 - 410bhp.

This company has a project car Leon Cupra MK2 with the K04 hybrid conversion, Wavetrac LSD and some other handling goodies, they raced it at the GTI International 2013 Show on the quarter mile and said it kept up with the an Audi R8 V10 (not bad!)

They said the K04 Hybrid really comes into its own where you get full power right through the rev range up to the very top! no loss of power where the standard unit usually peaks out on the power chart. They said under normal driving conditions one might not really notice the difference to the standard unit but once you thrash it really kicks arse!

The dilemma is I already have 360 horses with my current Revo Stage 2+ and am a bit reluctant to invest this kind of money on what would be no more than a 30 - 40bhp increase. Yes the throughput might be better through the rev range but without testing a hybrid conversion for myself, how will I ever really know what the improvement will be and whether it is worth the money?

Option 2 - Garrett GTX3071R Turbo Upgrade

Replace the standard K04 unit with the Garrett GTX3071R Turbo - at nearly double the price for the conversion, it is probably not recommended for the faint hearted! however this turbo will put your Leon into super car territory for power and performance. This turbo is generally used for stage 3 & 4 conversions and will increase the bhp to 500+ depending on fuel/timing boost etc

When doing a stage 3+ or higher, Revo's hardware requirements include RS4 injectors. Interestingly I was told yesterday by a well know tuning company that the RS4 injectors will top out around 450bhp due to the difference in the angle they are installed into the engine when fitting into the 2.0T FSI (Cupra R engine) any higher output and you suffer big turbo lag.

They also advised that anything over 450bhp will (as you mentioned above) be pretty bad to drive with wheel spin most the time.

Personally I would be happy with 450bhp, the Garrett turbo conversion can be limited to 450bhp by simply reducing the boost/fuel/timing. I imagine this conversion would put a big grin on anyone's face!

The only drawback for me really is the cost, if your doing the stage 3 upwards (or say 420bhp upwards) then most tuning companies including Revo strongly advise uprated engine internals which adds to the cost of the project. The most common parts quoted are forged pistons, strengthened rods and uprated valves in the upper engine block (due to the increase in heat exchange)

If I do go to stage 3 then I will definitely do the pistons and rods as a minimum, my precious Cupra R has only done 5K on the clock and yes I do want it to last a lifetime!

Conclusion

So some big decisions to make, cost is a big factor, but do I really want to rush the job and go for the half filled glass option? my heart tells me option 2 is the one to do, I would be interested to hear from other members who have had this conversion?

All in all this all points back to the handling requirements, I really want to understand the best options around the handling and shell out the least expenditure, Wavtrac LSD first and then coilovers and then the turbo upgrade?

 

[AndrewJB]

AKS Alex has a Hybrid turbo on his Octavia VRS, he really knows his stuff i would speak to him.

 

[Al]

Save your money with the uprated ARB's unless you plan to do serious track work. Big turbo will be useless unless you do track work too - wheelspin is a killer even on a standard turbo with Stage 2+ and I had a Wavetrac on mine.

Engine mounts coils weight reduction and ability to cool things will help for fast road use. Sorry I didn't read your detail as I am struggling after half a bottle of Dalwhinnie

 

[invisiblekid]

OP - have you considered Loba? Either the L0400 or the L04xx?

L0400 has a faster spool than a K04 and holds more power for longer. Would be perfect for a drivable FWD car.

I'd highly recommend you to go down to Statller in Sheffield and get Steve to take you out in his Loba Golf Ed30. That beast is running around 400whp and has a trap speed of 125mph...

 

[invisiblekid]

AKS Tuning fella only guy i would trust with my LCR now!

Wavetrac does seem to be recommended highly! i've got Quaife simply because i got it Super cheap.

Yes i would look at handling, Coilovers, ARB's, Bushes, Even brakes

What turbo kit is it you want to fit? I think Stage2+ is plenty enough for FWD, if the LCR was AWD like the Golf R then i would be getting the APR kit for mine but im not bothering with FWD

I agree. I'd hate to drive a 450bhp Cupra without serious handling mods. You'd have to be barmy!

Stage 3 APR is almost £9k inc fitting . It does return 460bhp though - AND on stock injectors & in tank fuel pump. Not a big APR fan personally, but they are doing some very, very clever & impressive stuff!

 

[Al]

450bhp in a front drive Cupra would be a waste of time IMO. Loba LO400 is the most I'd go for everyday use of K04 Hybrid but in reality, for day to day, K04 is the most cost effective and probably most useable and generally best solution. If you want to use the performance of a bigger turbo you should get a 4 wheel drive S3 or Golf R.

All tuning companies have nice little projects. Near 10k for 100bhp over stage 2+ is mental in my opinion regardless of which tuner does it. At the end of the day, on day to day use, there won't be much between 360 and 460bhp in a Leon in the typical weather.

 

[Hurdy]

Hmm,

The option one you are talking about sounds like a Custom Code's car. It didn't really turn me on and neither was it particularly fast on the set up they were running.

The Loba L0400 is probably as far as you should need to go when creating a fast fwd road car as even with a diff it will struggle to put down the power. If you really want more power, then try a 4WD conversion first.

 

[AndrewJB]

Custard Code

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gagwithgaffer]

Hmm,

The option one you are talking about sounds like a Custom Code's car. It didn't really turn me on and neither was it particularly fast on the set up they were running.

The Loba L0400 is probably as far as you should need to go when creating a fast fwd road car as even with a diff it will struggle to put down the power. If you really want more power, then try a 4WD conversion first.

Ha Ha yes well it might have been Custom Code for my quoted option 1... (no comment!)

When I spoke to them on the phone, it took some time to establish that they were not in fact a REVO dealer (forgive my ignorance!)

After telling me how good their own maps were, they banged on to tell me about the weaknesses in the REVO software, claiming they remove vital mechanisms that ensure longevity of the engine lifecycle. They also said that REVO are only the middle men and rebrand a lot of the maps that were originally developed by these guys.

So who is telling the truth here!!!

I don't know where to go or who to really speak to, I'm getting a bit tired of speaking to tuning companies who claim to be the founder in all these various technologies, all I want is unbiased advice on the best products at the best price to make my car go bloody faster! lol

I'm happy with REVO so far, their Stage 2+ map works really well in my machine. I think they just need to clean up their act a bit with the advice they give on Stage 3 and higher conversions, they don't seem that enthusiastic about it, not to mention they will not commit to providing much in the way of advice about it. It took four phone calls before I felt confident enough to go and progress my research to perspective tuning companies and carry out some initial enquiries

I'll stop moaning now.... sorry

On a more positive note, I spoke to the Whiteline guys today about their Anti-lift Kit, they put me onto Paul from www.coordsport.com who was really sound, I only rang him to speak about the WALK kit and the Rear Anti-roll Bar, we then went on to discuss options around uprated suspension and no, he was not trying to sell me his products, just gave good impartial advice.

Why can't everyone else do that??

Later boys...

PS.. do you know anyone who has done the AWD conversion? apart from the mint green pile of yuck from UTUBE (cracking performance though... https://www.youtube.com/user/mygel82 if you haven't already seen it... enjoy!)

 

[Al]

On a more positive note, I spoke to the Whiteline guys today about their Anti-lift Kit, they put me onto Paul from www.coordsport.com who was really sound, I only rang him to speak about the WALK kit and the Rear Anti-roll Bar, we then went on to discuss options around uprated suspension and no, he was not trying to sell me his products, just gave good impartial advice.

Hopefully he was telling you how much of a waste of time those things are vs a decent set of coilovers

 

[Gagwithgaffer]

Hopefully he was telling you how much of a waste of time those things are vs a decent set of coilovers

Have you got the WALK on yours?

Talk to us, tell us all about it?

I want to source a decent uprated suspension package but I don't want to lower the damn thing more than around 10mm, the Eibach Pro Street Kit is apparently very good but their minimum drop is 35mm... that is far too excessive and not on the cards, I have too many speed ramps in my area and not to mention the dodgy pivot shaped pavement that I have to combat before touching my own tarmac!

 

[Al]

I don't have a Leon any more. However I have had 2 MK2 Leon Cupra's with pretty well every "sensible" mod there is, done fast road driving, track days, 1/4 miles etc. That included WALK's Autotech ARB's 5 suspension set ups, 3 clutch set ups, a Wavetrac, 4 different stages of remap, 3 exhaust systems plus cat and decat, 4 intakes, 5 intercooler set ups, 3 fuel pump set ups, engine mounts, short shifters, 3 different wheel set ups, 3 different sets of brakes and variations of disc and pads etc etc etc.

Depending what your budget is and what you want to use the car for, a decent set of coilovers is the best way ahead.

I had Eibach Sport Line Springs and Pro Kit Springs as well as Eibach Pro Street Coilovers and KW V3's. Spend money on good stuff - the Eibachs are fine if you aren't arsed to piss about with Bounce, Rebound etc (ie not on tracks). For fast road, Eibachs would be fine although I'd be more worried about longevity - quite a few people have seen issues in the long term with them.

Bilsteins would be where I spent my money on coils next - what they lack in not being stainless, they make up for in ease of adjustability and warranty.

And I agree with not lowering the car too far. Too low = **** clearance and handling although you can get away with a bit more than 10mm down and still clear speed bumps.

As for the WALK, yes I had it fitted. It supposedly stops the front of the car from lifting. It maybe does a fraction but you'd be best spending your last money on this mod. In terms of numbers (launching) I can confirm it doesn't help at all.

 

[Al]

PS.. do you know anyone who has done the AWD conversion? apart from the mint green pile of yuck from UTUBE (cracking performance though... https://www.youtube.com/user/mygel82 if you haven't already seen it... enjoy!)

DanGB. Having been in it before and after, its loads better now than it was!

It's a cost prohibitive exercise really though. You be better/cheaper selling up and getting an S3 with DSG and adding your mods to it if you want useable power

 

[Adman77]

Al I've seen you knock ARB's in other threads. Why exactly?

Are they just overkill for roads and noticed on track only sort of thing?

What was it that put you off of them?

 

[qczarq]

I'm looking at two turbo options:

Option 1 - K04 Hybrid

Option 2 - Garrett GTX3071R Turbo Upgrade

I have the same problem. I have 360HP/440NM (1.4bar boost) . And is the end of K04.
Some Tuners told me is a good choice to buy Garret GT2876R.
It's ideal compromise of power and comfort drive on street car.


GT3076 is to big for 2.0L. They says: It is be too big lag between 2.000-3.500 rpm.

What You think??

 

[LeonCR]

GTX2871 would be my choice

 

[Al]

Al I've seen you knock ARB's in other threads. Why exactly?

Are they just overkill for roads and noticed on track only sort of thing?

What was it that put you off of them?

You have pretty well hit the nail on the head. I adjusted the ARB's every way possible and still feel that for road use, the standard ARB's were better. Perhaps a different story on a track depending how you like the car. My cash would go on proper coilovers, decent engine mounts, uprated bushes and anything else first unless you plan on using the car on the track and need adjustability.

The whole ARB and WALK addition is almost like a tick list of stuff people think that they need just because so many other people have them too. Anyone who knows me will tell you I never did hang about in either of my Leon's and I honestly can't think why changing the rear ARB alone will improve anything over the standard ARB.

If you want to go fast on the road, it is worth considering;

LSD
Uprated clutch
Decent Coilovers
Engine Mounts
Reducing Weight - Sprung and Unsprung
Improve braking
Improve cooling
Tightening the car up, without going overboard. Too hard/tight will make it slower on the road as there are bumps and stuff on roads that are not on tracks
A map that can be adjusted to take in to account all possible variations

[/£0.02]