EGR disabling - Another way to do it?

[Altealover]

I might be out on a limp here, but has anybody concidered a 3rd option for disabling the EGR other than Vag-com and the vacum hose?

I'm thinking about simply blocking the exhaust connecting pipe (between EGR and exhaust manifold). This could be done inside the pipe towards the manifold (a little bit of welding), so it would not be visible from the outside.
A new pipe is £45 so I might just buy a spare and do the mod on that one.

So why this mod, and not the other two? -Well I'm just a little concerned about the sideeffects of the first two solutions.

But the solution I suggest, should not have any sideeffects because the vacum system will be left 100% alone, and the ECU will be tricked into thinking, that it is still recirkulation, because it still opens and closses the valve, but there is simply no exhaust gas, when the valve opens.
The ECU parameters (mg/str) will also be left alone, so everything should function as normal, and from the outside looks nobody should be able to tell, that the recirkulation is actually completely shut off.

Any comments are welcome and I do realize, that I could have missed something along the way

 

[cheshire cat]

what side effects of the first two, are we talking of the EGR most of us have or the newer EC? 16 type which I believe is on the 2 ltr

 

[muddyboots]

I haven't noticed any side effects of plugging the vacuum pipe on mine...

 

[ChrisUK]

Sorry to sound a little thick, but what is the EGR and why would you want to disable it ???

 

[Altealover]

what side effects of the first two, are we talking of the EGR most of us have or the newer EC? 16 type which I believe is on the 2 ltr

I can't say anything for the EGR on 2ltr, since it is completely different, so yes I'm talking about the one most of us have on the 1.9 PD engine. I should have been more specific, sorry

There are no proven side effects for the ECU-mod as far as I know, but then again some might turn up later, cause when you alter one thing in the ECU it will possibly effect 10 other parameters within the ECU. My point is, that none of us really know for sure, so why not go the safe way (according to my technical understanding).
I'm pretty sure the vacum mod, has some effect in the vacum system, because of pressure being build up but not being released through the supposed valve.
In the long run I'm pretty sure this could cause vacum leaks for some, while others might never be effected by it, depending on weaknesses in ones vacum system (not model specific, just in general).

Oh btw, I do have Vag-com, so I'm not asking about the 3rd option because I want a cheap way to mod it

 

[Altealover]

Sorry to sound a little thick, but what is the EGR and why would you want to disable it ???

EGR=Exhaust Gas Recirkulation -valve

It recirkulates exhaust gas back into the intake, and is a major cause for intake clogging=bad performance.

A search for EGR in the forum will give you more specific details

 

[samm]

I've seen this mentioned a number of times now. Surely if this was such a problem they would have manufactured it differently??!

 

[cheshire cat]

I've seen this mentioned a number of times now. Surely if this was such a problem they would have manufactured it differently??!

 

[basstard]

IMO there's no build up of pressure with the vacuum mod. When it normally works it just applies pressure on the egr actuator which is a sealed chamber [at least on my non-PD system].

Your system may work, and it's good idea. If you want go on with that, pioneering is always welcome. But confronted to the ecu method [even if I think it's true what you say about changing parameters, another 10 will be affected]:
1-the egr is not this crucial to the engine life and the risk of damaging things is very low IMO
2-the ecu trick it is surely more simple, less invasive and I'd say, if there's a chance to harm the engine in anyway I'd say it's more the case of a welding like the one you say than a change in ecu parameters.

I'm not sayin your idea is crap it's just I don't find the ecu mod so bad.

 

[Altealover]

IMO there's no build up of pressure with the vacuum mod. When it normally works it just applies pressure on the egr actuator which is a sealed chamber [at least on my non-PD system].

Your system may work, and it's good idea. If you want go on with that, pioneering is always welcome. But confronted to the ecu method [even if I think it's true what you say about changing parameters, another 10 will be affected]:
1-the egr is not this crucial to the engine life and the risk of damaging things is very low IMO
2-the ecu trick it is surely more simple, less invasive and I'd say, if there's a chance to harm the engine in anyway I'd say it's more the case of a welding like the one you say than a change in ecu parameters.

I'm not sayin your idea is crap it's just I don't find the ecu mod so bad.

Hi Carlo,

I don't think the ECU mod is bad in any way, but I don't like the idea that I have no way of knowing what might be effected. Maybe nothing at all, but I can't really say.
I don't think the vacum mod is bad either, but again I don't know for sure what might be effected in the vacum system.

I came up with the idea for the 3rd option, because I looked at the problem up-side-down, imagining the engine without recirkulation as it was ment to function (before emmision control). Originally it was designed to dump all of the exhaust through the exhaust pipe, so I knew there would not be a negative side effect from making the engine route it all this way again. Then I looked at the effects from the lack of exhaust fumes on the other side of the exhaust-connecting-pipe (EGR-valve), and the only effect I could conclude from the EGR-valve opening, but not getting the fumes in, was this; a cleaner engine breathing and the engine taking a little longer before reaching working temperature.
I have even concidered back-pressure increase, but remembering that the EGR is not active during max load, made me discard this.

So having all of the aspects covered for the 3rd option (or at least I think I have ) makes me 99,9% sure, that this mod cannot have any negative effect on other parts of the system, as oppose to not really knowing for sure with the other two.
So again, I am not flaming the first two options, just coming up with new ideas which are easier to see through

I mainly posted this, because I would rather be proven wrong in theory before going out to blow up my engine, than being so ignorant thinking I could not possibly have overlooked something

 

[muddyboots]

Mate - I don't think you've thought this through enough

Given the choice of A) removing the EGR valve body, engineering a blanking plate, and refitting -- or B) finding a lump of plastic on the garage floor and stuffing it up the end of the vacuum pipe.....guess which route I took

 

[basstard]

Quite obviously you won't blow you engine mate

But If we really wanna find something wrong in your theory [but me too I'm not flamin it!] then I'll say look at it from the other way round: if the ecu "knows" that the EGR is not working [ecu mod] it acts and manages the engine according to this. For example I know the EGR is particulary used when the engine is cold, to warm it up and for better handling of co2 emissions while not at operating temperatures. So the ecu might differentiate the fueling/combustion process in some way. If the ecu knows this it can work as it's programmed to do, otherwise it will think of the egr working while it's not and what happens? no one knows,,, so basically we're stuck into a situation we do not know nothing about any of the options.

Me I've driven with the EGR off [I had borken the actuator myself ] and the only symptons I've seen are:
1-longer warm up time [kinda noticeable]
2-big engine shudder when turning it off [very noticeable]
3-higher fuel consumption [maybe just my mind]

I'd say if you wanna do that, just do it, I don't think it can really harm the engine but for the fact it will not run exactly as it should, but hey, it's a diesel!
Plus experimenting is always welcome. Then if you do it you'll have the original part to exchange so,,,

I'd like the word from paulo which said he has a blankin plate

 

[basstard]

Mate - I don't think you've thought this through enough

Me too,,,

 

[muddyboots]

Only kidding. You've put a lot of thought in, and it's when people do this they start to gain good understanding of how everything works.

I haven't noticed any bad side effects from blocking my vacuum pipe; other than the engine feels smoother. Probably because it's sucking more fresh air & oxygen at idle & light load.

 

[Altealover]

Me too,,,

x 2.....

 

[Altealover]

But If we really wanna find something wrong in your theory [but me too I'm not flamin it!] then I'll say look at it from the other way round: if the ecu "knows" that the EGR is not working [ecu mod] it acts and manages the engine according to this. For example I know the EGR is particulary used when the engine is cold, to warm it up and for better handling of co2 emissions while not at operating temperatures. So the ecu might differentiate the fueling/combustion process in some way. If the ecu knows this it can work as it's programmed to do, otherwise it will think of the egr working while it's not and what happens? no one knows,,, so basically we're stuck into a situation we do not know nothing about any of the options.

You make a good and solid point here. -You have made me reconcider and I'm now only 99,8% sure of the aspects involved in my choice of mod

Seriously though, this is the first suggestion of an x-factor in my theory , and suggestions like this one is what I'm looking for

I guess only vag-com testing will show if any of these parameters are changed during warm-up (or other conditions), when the EGR is turned off via the ECU.

 

[muddyboots]

Actually this thread has made me think, as I've blocked the vacuum pipes on mine, it might be still worth turning the EGR settings as low as possible via vagcom.

That way, the difference between what the ECU thinks is happening, and what's actually happening, will be smaller....perhaps it will help my sometimes lumpy idle.

 

[basstard]

Actually this thread has made me think, as I've blocked the vacuum pipes on mine, it might be still worth turning the EGR settings as low as possible via vagcom.

That way, the difference between what the ECU thinks is happening, and what's actually happening, will be smaller....perhaps it will help my sometimes lumpy idle.

If you turn down the EGR via ecu there won't be any need of the vacuum trick.

Altea, alway glad to discuss about cars,,,

 

[muddyboots]

If you turn down the EGR via ecu there won't be any need of the vacuum trick.

My understanding is that you can turn the EGR function down via the ECU / vag-com, but not off completely.

The vacuum pipe mod stops it completely.

 

[sssstew]

your right muddy.