Front brake caliper rattle problem

[Ibiza6LSweden]

The car makes an annoying rattling sound over bumps and bad asphalt since I bought it a year ago and I've finally found the problem, the front brake caliper is loose and doesn't contact the brake carrier like it should, I've confirmed the issues by applying the brakes when driving and the noise stops. I found that there was slight play, enough to cause the brake pad and caliper to bang against the carrier with every jostle and bump. The caliper should only be moving in and out along the sliding pins, but since there is a soft bushing around the pins it kind of pivots slightly up and down allowing a tiny bit of movement between the caliper and carrier which makes a huge racket when driving. All parts are genuine VW parts as the car was serviced at a dealership when the brakes were changed last.​

My initial thoughts were worn out or loose pins and bushing, but upon closer inspection the pins where correctly torqued (28 Nm) and they were in immaculate condition with no rust or gouging on the surface, they also had a very tight fit (almost interference) inside the bushing with no play so I doubt that's the problem. The official SEAT repair manual makes no mention of any lubricant whatsoever, neither on the sliding pins or the sliding surfaces of the brake pads, only a thorough cleaning and rust removal. The brake pads also fit snugly on the caliper with no movement so springs seem to be intact.​

Are these calipers designed to wiggle around a little? Any suggestions to fix the noise?​

 

[Ibiza6LSweden]

I'm going to answer the thread in case it might help someone in the future, the problem was a tiny gap between the caliper and brake carrier, as indicated by the above pictures, which caused it to clank with every bump (quite loud).

After noticing that the inner (piston side) brake pads were slightly loose unlike the outer, I tried to adjust and bend the brake pad clips so that they could fit better in the caliper hoping that it might solve the issue, but even after many adjustments and a snug fit the issue simply wouldn't go away. The caliper piston doesn't have a very pronounced edge/lip on the inside so the pad clips can't really grab on to it very well, no matter the adjustments the inner pad wouldn't sit rock solid like the outer pad, but I managed to make it fit snugly so it wouldn't just fall out without some prying. The original brake calipers supplied with the vehicle are unfortunately on the cheaper side and seem to develop a tendency for noise and play with age, similar model brakes have anti-rattle springs which attach between the caliper and carrier to prevent this exact problem but these don't have it.

The solution was simply to grease the contact points with Liqui Moly Brake Anti Squeal Paste, which is strange since the service manual doesn't call for any grease or lubricant for the brakes at all. Now the issue is gone (almost). I still hear slight clanking when driving over potholes and VERY rough surfaces like uneven gravel roads but otherwise the issue is gone so I'm satisfied. The paste is supposed to be very adherent and resistant to water splashes and corrosion, so in theory it should last come winter but only time will tell.

 

[RUM4MO]

I looked after my wife's 2002 VW Polo 1.4 16V 75PS for 13 years and 105K miles and never ever had that issue with FS 111 callipers.

I used to make sure that the guide pins were cleaned and lub'd with silicon grease every 2 years and obviously removed the pads and cleaned them and the calliper and carriers up, and added a spot of ceramic brake grease on the "ears" of the pads and the points on the carrier where they were also contacting.

Maybe these genuine VW Group brake pads, were more an "aftermarket quality" as some manufacturers tend to supply that sort of cheaper parts to fit to older cars - or, as these pads it seems are now meant to fit both FS 111 "Lucas" callipers and the similar but much cheaper Mando versions that are now fitted to current cars, then maybe the pad dimensions have changed slightly to make that possible - with VW Group's main interest moving to making sure that they can save money by having "same pads" fit more cars. That is just a thought, nothing else.

Edit:- are the piston side pads not "sided" ie the pack of brake pads contains, 2 outer pads, 1 RHS inner pad and 1 LHS inner pad?

 

[Ibiza6LSweden]

I looked after my wife's 2002 VW Polo 1.4 16V 75PS for 13 years and 105K miles and never ever had that issue with FS 111 callipers.

I used to make sure that the guide pins were cleaned and lub'd with silicon grease every 2 years and obviously removed the pads and cleaned them and the calliper and carriers up, and added a spot of ceramic brake grease on the "ears" of the pads and the points on the carrier where they were also contacting.

Maybe these genuine VW Group brake pads, were more an "aftermarket quality" as some manufacturers tend to supply that sort of cheaper parts to fit to older cars - or, as these pads it seems are now meant to fit both FS 111 "Lucas" callipers and the similar but much cheaper Mando versions that are now fitted to current cars, then maybe the pad dimensions have changed slightly to make that possible - with VW Group's main interest moving to making sure that they can save money by having "same pads" fit more cars. That is just a thought, nothing else.

Edit:- are the piston side pads not "sided" ie the pack of brake pads contains, 2 outer pads, 1 RHS inner pad and 1 LHS inner pad?

No the inner pads are not sided, they're identical left and right.

See the reason I suspect you never had issues is because you lubed the ears of the pads like I've just done. The official service manual doesn't call for lube on the guide pins as they're evidently "dry" pins so I didn't lube lube them, i did give them a good cleaning with brake cleaner but it didn't make any difference to the noise. What solved it again was the lube on the ears and contact areas.

Shame SEAT doesn't mention this on the repair manual as it's evidently required for noise reduction.

 

[RUM4MO]

I think that when the callipers, carrier and pads are new, then possibly it is correct never to use grease, but as you said, "we" live in the real world and many in places like you and I live where salt is used on roads!

 

[Spyrosmim]

The same issue had been driving me crazy for about a year now, as i had no idea what the noise could possibly be, and i had replaced almost everything on the frond end (swing arm bushings, droplinks, engine and gearbox mounts, suspension top mounts,lowering springs, struts, ball joints). I found some time this month and took it to shops, most couldnt locate the noise, considered it insignificant, or would not bother checking. Last shop i took it to got pretty close and told me that the caliper had to be replaced cause slide pins were worn out. They claimed that there is no part number for only the pins and the bushings which I later found out is false but considering I would have to propably order and wait for them I went to a wreckers the same day and got a whole caliper (the part which comes off).

After replacing it the issue persisted (even though the noise was less frequent) and upon closer inspection the inner brake pad rattled and caused most of the noise. In the shop's defense the sliders were indeed worn, they showed me by wiggling the old caliper on the car with bare hands. They told me there was nothing more I can do about it, brainstorming I asked them about using grease (not specifying copper) and they told me that it would melt and I'd kill myself. I even seriously considered swapping to 288mm brake setup! Later i searched around on the internet to find out some other vw models have the same issue and read up on it.

So being fed up I searched around town to find liqui molly brake anti squeal paste and ofc found nothing so being impatient and frustrated I got some plain high temperature copper grease and an H7 bit and removed the caliper at home, cleaned it and applied minimal amount of copper paste on contact points. The noise is 99% gone now and Im just waiting to see how long it will last. My guess is one rainy day or powerwash before it returns.

My first thought was to try OEM or better brake pads (now using some Delphis). Upon closer inspection at home I noticed score marks an the aluminum carrier part of the caliper which is fixed to the hub. I believe that's where most of the wear is so best bet would be try to find a good condition hub and replace it. But then what if it's bent or has a bad bearing... Well I guess that these are some of the adventures you have to go through keeping an almost 20 year old car on the road.

Off topic question: Anyone had any experience with brembo MAX pads on brembo MAX discs (grooved) and if they squeak?