Is my LCR 210 as fast as it should be?

[RogerW]

I went from a Leon 20VT (180+chip), to a LCR 210 a few months back. This whole time I've thought that the LCR's performance was similar to my previous car. (About same weight and power.) But now I've compared "in gear" acceleration in both. The 20VT did 80-120kph in 4. and 6. gear in 4.5 and 7.2 seconds. My LCR does it in 5.5 and 10.2 seconds. (kickdown, not accelerating from low speed to build up pressure)
I find this very strange. I think the gearing is the same, and the car feels fine, just not as fast as I thought it was.
When I think back, the acceleration on the LCR is probably similar to my 20VT before it was remapped.
I know it's has a larger turbo, and needs time to spool up, but even when I tried this "on the fly" with the LCR it could'nt beat the 20VT.

Can this be right?

Last night I reset the ECU, but no change in performance. It's had all its services done.

After reading a lot on this forum, the LCR should be as quick, or quicker than a remapped 20VT. My previuos car even had a APP-coded engine which should give out only 195hp.

Anyone?

 

[Spanky]

When I think back, the acceleration on the LCR is probably similar to my 20VT before it was remapped.

Can this be right?

No, I have regular drives in Cupra's and the acceleration is quite a bit more agressive on the Cupra R, if yours feels like an unmapped Cupra then I would say you have a problem somewhere, leaking hoses, poor fuel etc...

Why dont you get it rolling roaded and see what results that gives and take it from there.

 

[YerMother]

Chipped cupra has more torque low down because of the smaller turbo so would explain the quicker 6th gear time maybe! 4th gear run not a lot in it really!

Remember though your probably only looking at a around 5-10 bhp difference between a chipped cupra and a 210 LCR which is nothing! TBH i would expect the chipped cupra to be quick than a standard 210 LCR, so I wouldn't worry! Get your LCR chipped then you'll see/feel the difference

 

[Paul357]

What I heard from the dealer : the gearbox is not the same. CupraR has longer ratios and from that a much higher top speed so your result is correct. Chipp it!

 

[Feel]

Rubbish. Ratios are the same.

 

[RogerW]

Ok, maybe the low down torque could be the answer. I'm still not quite sure if my car is as it should be.
Could anyone with a standard LCR 210 be so kind as to time their in gear acceleration in 3,4,5 or 6. gear (kickdown) through the whole rev range...
Eh.. maybe 3. or 4 gear would be the best then From 2000-6000 rpm.
Or in a certain speed (60-120kph/40-70mph?)

This way I would have something to compare with...

 

[Paul357]

Rubbish. Ratios are the same.

My tuner told me also that they are not the same. How I tested: Me (LeonFR chipped 226hp) and a friends CupraR. I was at 6000rpm in 5th gear, he only got about 5800rpm. Me on 17" he on 18" stock tires both if that matters. For me is very clear so I don't argue about anymore. I was not pleased with my top speed compared to CupraR and that's why...

 

[SHADY-NINJA]

if i was upgrading from a cupra i would have gone for the 225bhp model and not a 210bhp as you did.
but a decent remap should give you about 260bhp as seen in the Audi 210bhp S3 model.

 

[Tallpaul]

Ok, maybe the low down torque could be the answer. I'm still not quite sure if my car is as it should be.
Could anyone with a standard LCR 210 be so kind as to time their in gear acceleration in 3,4,5 or 6. gear (kickdown) through the whole rev range...
Eh.. maybe 3. or 4 gear would be the best then From 2000-6000 rpm.
Or in a certain speed (60-120kph/40-70mph?)

This way I would have something to compare with...

Get your car on VAG-COM and log your MAF and boost requested v's actual. Or get in on a dyno a check the power that way. Or install a boost gauge. Without any symptoms it's unlikely there is a problem but if there is your going to need to diagnose it somehow anyway.

You may even be able to find some in-gear figures online if you search

Not sure how many people are gonna be willing/able to time their own in gear accelaration.

 

[Feel]

My tuner told me also that they are not the same. How I tested: Me (LeonFR chipped 226hp) and a friends CupraR. I was at 6000rpm in 5th gear, he only got about 5800rpm. Me on 17" he on 18" stock tires both if that matters. For me is very clear so I don't argue about anymore. I was not pleased with my top speed compared to CupraR and that's why...

If you're comparing a 5 speed to a 6 speed, then yes obviously the ratios between a 5 speed and a 6 speed are different (not sure how they could be the same).

But the 6 speeds, apart from the diesels (which have taller ratios), are all the same ratios.

 

[YerMother]

Ratios are the same although with the cupra having smaller wheels, will increase it's acceration slightly at the cost of topspeed!

 

[Tallpaul]

Ratios are the same although with the cupra having smaller wheels, will increase it's acceration slightly at the cost of topspeed!

with the higher profile tyres the actual diameter is the same.

 

[Ruddmeister]

if i was upgrading from a cupra i would have gone for the 225bhp model and not a 210bhp as you did.
but a decent remap should give you about 260bhp as seen in the Audi 210bhp S3 model.

Why?

210's and 225's are both exactly the same on the road performance wise (pre and post Revo).........It could be argued the 210 is a stronger engine too

 

[YerMother]

with the higher profile tyres the actual diameter is the same.

I thought the standard LC tyre size is 205/55 16 arn't they?

Take the following:
1"= 2.54cm
Value of Pi = 3.14159265358979 (14dp)

So
16*2.54 +(5.5*2)=51.64cm OD
18*2.54 +(4.0*2)=53.72cm OD

Therefore circumference of:
LC's wheel = 3.142*51.64 = 162.25cm
LCR's wheel = 3.142*53.72 = 168.79cm

So for every rotation of the LCR's wheel it is covering 6.54cm more!

So for a LC crusing at 4,000 rpm (wheel revs, discounting gear box because it's the same ratios and just to keep things simple ) it will be doing:

162.25 x 4000 =649000cm/min or 10.82m/s or 24.16mph

for LCR:

168.79 x 4000 =675160cm/min or 11.25m/s or 25.13mph

So for a given engine speed in a certain gear resulting in the wheel rotating at 4,000 rpm the LCR will be travelling roughly 1mph faster than the LC

If i have the tyre size wrong then this is pointless!

I can't belive i just wasted 10 minutes with this

 

[dangel]

A chipped cupra can be quite a bit more than 210bhp (230 is typical) and they weigh slightly less too - so yes, they should be quicker (bar the top end). Stock LCRs feel pretty sluggish to me, but it's worth remembering that the 20VT engine never really shines until it's chipped on either car.. When does the stock map on the LCR tail off? Chipped maps usually hang on a bit longer too..

Nothing to choose between the 225 and 210 aside from the steering wheel was there?

 

[Tallpaul]

I thought the standard LC tyre size is 205/55 16 arn't they?

Take the following:
1"= 2.54cm
Value of Pi = 3.14159265358979 (14dp)

So
16*2.54 +(5.5*2)=51.64cm OD
18*2.54 +(4.0*2)=53.72cm OD

Therefore circumference of:
LC's wheel = 3.142*51.64 = 162.25cm
LCR's wheel = 3.142*53.72 = 168.79cm

So for every rotation of the LCR's wheel it is covering 6.54cm more!

So for a LC crusing at 4,000 rpm (wheel revs, discounting gear box because it's the same ratios and just to keep things simple ) it will be doing:

162.25 x 4000 =649000cm/min or 10.82m/s or 24.16mph

for LCR:

168.79 x 4000 =675160cm/min or 11.25m/s or 25.13mph

So for a given engine speed in a certain gear resulting in the wheel rotating at 4,000 rpm the LCR will be travelling roughly 1mph faster than the LC

If i have the tyre size wrong then this is pointless!

I can't belive i just wasted 10 minutes with this

So you've just proved that the insignificant differance in wheel size can't account for the differance in in-gear acceleration between an LC and LCR observed in post#1

 

[Tallpaul]

and to be really irritating, according to this handy tyre size calculator, the differance in diameter is about 0.5cms...

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

LC = 63.25cms
LCR = 63.75cms

 

[YerMother]

Ah who cares the whole point is that a chipped LC is faster than a standard LCR 210! Untill it's single SMIC starts to get too hot!

Log block 5 in VAG COM to give your speed Vs rpm in 3rd or something for a LC and LCR and should be the same!

Like you said though log block 115 and 118 as well as 003 on VAG COM if there is a problem it should show up!

 

[bushybeaver]

if i was upgrading from a cupra i would have gone for the 225bhp model and not a 210bhp as you did.
but a decent remap should give you about 260bhp as seen in the Audi 210bhp S3 model.

What makes you say that, most peeps on rolling roads will tell you that 210 and 225 are always around the same bhp,and for that grand lift over the 210 I personally dont think its worth it.
Thought the 210 was the better route, if you plan is to remapped then 265 is achievable on both models anyway.

 

[YerMother]

The 225 steering wheel! Need i say more!

As for the 210/225 i have seen runs on the RR where they have both been on the money! But obviously differs from engine to engine!