Thinking of trading in my Leon

[caledonian]

Hey Guys,

I have a 2017 2.0 tdi FR 184 estate, I love it, the boot the engine and the looks are all great. It's just getting on a bit and I think It might start costing me money, DPF, Clutch, timing belt etc. Its sometimes crunches in second gear also which worries me. It's worth a bit more than the loan I have on it so think it might be time to trade it in.

I'd have another one in a heartbeat but in the time I've had it the price has increased about 3k! And they are quite rare actually.

The equivelant skoda would need to be an octavia VRS and Golf GTD both much more expensive.

What have others on here moved onto? I've had 7th 8th and 9th gen civics in the past and am quite tempted by a 10th gen 1.5 vtech turbo but would take a huge hit in boot space, I think economy might be similar as I get 40mpg just now.

 

[Glosphil]

If you're also looking at petrol Civics then why not a petrol Leon? 2-litre 190hp turbo petrol?

 

[caledonian]

If you're also looking at petrol Civics then why not a petrol Leon? 2-litre 190hp turbo petrol?

Yes there's one for sale nearby, looks good but I worry the fuel economy will be in the 20's. The mechanic I had fitting a new condenser had a 1.4 tsi and he was saying he gets low 30s in his

 

[Jason2023]

My 1.4 tsi 150, motor ways 47-52 mpg.. short journeys stop starts 40s. That’s a 2014 plate.

 

[SRGTD]

Yes there's one for sale nearby, looks good but I worry the fuel economy will be in the 20's. The mechanic I had fitting a new condenser had a 1.4 tsi and he was saying he gets low 30s in his

Not a Leon but I find VAG’s 2.0 litre EA888 petrol engine is pretty economical.

I have a VW Polo GTI 2.0 litre 6 speed DSG with VAG’s 2.0 EA888 Gen 3b petrol engine - power output is slightly higher than the 2.0 Leon FR‘s 190bhp (it’s 200ps / 197bhp in my Polo GTI). My long term mpg is between 43 and 44, and I’ve seen over 50 mpg quite a few times on a decent run.

 

[caledonian]

Wow, petrols have come a long way, I do 1000 miles a month and average 40mpg over the last 8000 miles

 

[SRGTD]

Wow, petrols have come a long way, I do 1000 miles a month and average 40mpg over the last 8000 miles

Admittedly, my driving style is more sedate these days than it was a few years back so that does help my long term average mpg. Even so, I don’t drive like Hoke Colburn (a.k.a. Driving Miss Daisy’s chauffeur ), and I‘ll give it some beans if it’s safe to do so and the opportunity presents itself.

I didn’t get much more than mid-40’s mpg from first diesel Golf back in 2002, so yes I agree, petrols have come along way.

 

[trebor]

Yes there's one for sale nearby, looks good but I worry the fuel economy will be in the 20's. The mechanic I had fitting a new condenser had a 1.4 tsi and he was saying he gets low 30s in his

I was getting 50-53 mpg from my 2018 Leon FR 2.0 190 petrol on longer trips (circa 120 miles, mostly A-Roads and some motorway).
Even my current 2020 Cupra will do 43 on a similar 120 mile commute with a few good squirts of the loud pedal

 

[caledonian]

Right well looks like I may have got ahead of myself here. Not only has the price of used cars gone way up but it appears the trade in Values have gone down, dealers are trying to offer me 6~6500 for my Leon (2017 2.0 tdi 184 FR 80k) they are then trying to sell that on for 9~10k?!?!?! I had to renew my insurance there and they valued the car at 10k. Since when did they start having a 3k mark up on trade in's?

I understand they'll have repairs, wa and overheads but it seems excessive.

On top of that loan rates have doubled, To pay roughly what I'm paying now I'd need to take a huge hit in spec for any car. I might just have to take my chances with mine and maybe spend a bit of money on it.

 

[SuperV8]

Change your gearbox oil to help with the shift quality. Also plastic bushing wear - and cause slop which effects change.

New cam belt is straightforward - and probably due on your 2017, and probably required even if you sell it (who would buy a car which is due a cam belt!)

My clutch is fine (@ 120,000 miles) Clutch life is heavily based on driving style/conditions - up and down the motorway you don't use the clutch so It can last indefinitely! If your 1000miles per month is in town/stop-start driving - then maybe have a fund for a potential clutch/DMF?

My DPF is fine - looking at data logs I think it will be good for 200,000+ miles.
Our DPF's seem reliable as long as you aren't burning oil?

 

[caledonian]

Change your gearbox oil to help with the shift quality. Also plastic bushing wear - and cause slop which effects change.

New cam belt is straightforward - and probably due on your 2017, and probably required even if you sell it (who would buy a car which is due a cam belt!)

My clutch is fine (@ 120,000 miles) Clutch life is heavily based on driving style/conditions - up and down the motorway you don't use the clutch so It can last indefinitely! If your 1000miles per month is in town/stop-start driving - then maybe have a fund for a potential clutch/DMF?

My DPF is fine - looking at data logs I think it will be good for 200,000+ miles.
Our DPF's seem reliable as long as you aren't burning oil?

Thanks for your very reasuring post! I'd say I do 50% motorway 25% country road 25% city. I was getting the timing belt done next month but if I was going to trade it in then I'd let them deal with it. I've never had a DPF light come on and I do enough motorway miles I think. But there's times I've done big runs on the motorway get home then do a short run to the shops and that's when it decides to do a regen? It seems to do one every 200 miles or so no matter where the cars been driven. So occasionally it catches the regeneration on another run, wasn't sure if this would be bad for it long term. But again thanks for your post the numbers are reasuring.

 

[BillyCool]

Thanks for your very reasuring post! I'd say I do 50% motorway 25% country road 25% city. I was getting the timing belt done next month but if I was going to trade it in then I'd let them deal with it. I've never had a DPF light come on and I do enough motorway miles I think. But there's times I've done big runs on the motorway get home then do a short run to the shops and that's when it decides to do a regen? It seems to do one every 200 miles or so no matter where the cars been driven. So occasionally it catches the regeneration on another run, wasn't sure if this would be bad for it long term. But again thanks for your post the numbers are reasuring.

My 2014 FR 184 has done 137,500 miles and is still on the original clutch. DPF regens about every 120-140 miles but I do mainly local 7 mile runs to and from work etc. If I do motorway journeys I can get 160 miles. If yours is doing 200 miles I'd say it's pretty healthy. I tihnk mine is getting a bit tired but it's always done a regen and never had the DPF light come on.

Ref the regens. They happen when the DPF reaches it's regen trigger point based on the soot mass. It can be sods law that is does it on a local run and not on the motorway! The VAG DPF app is very good for monitoring your DPF levels and regens etc. You'll need an OBD dongle as well (I use Carista). Ideally you want it to finish the regen but it's not the end of the world if it doesn't.

Mine will be due a cam belt soon but it's part of owning a car and I plan to keep it. When it was last done I had a pump without the electronic widget fitted as that was another design failure (along with the heater matrix).

Changing gearbox oil is highly recommneded - it smoothed mine out nicely.

 

[caledonian]

Again, very reassuring to see that many miles and still on original DPF and Clutch so thank you. I will definitely be holding on to it as anything else I can afford now will feel like a downgrade.

I'll ask them to change the gearbox oil when they do the Cam belt next month, they asked about the electric widget when I asked about the timing belt as there was a difference in cost, said they'd check it and let me know. But if its better without it I'll ask them to fit the one you have. Thanks again

 

[BillyCool]

Again, very reassuring to see that many miles and still on original DPF and Clutch so thank you. I will definitely be holding on to it as anything else I can afford now will feel like a downgrade.

I'll ask them to change the gearbox oil when they do the Cam belt next month, they asked about the electric widget when I asked about the timing belt as there was a difference in cost, said they'd check it and let me know. But if its better without it I'll ask them to fit the one you have. Thanks again

No problem. My widget started to fail/stick and caused very intermittent overheating which was very hard to diagnose. As a result the water pump (+ cambelt) AND thermostat (+housing) were replaced. That was not only expensive but the thermostat housing is under the charge cooler and it's a real faff to get at. There are 2 ways to do it and one of them involves removing the dipstick .

This is an image of the `switchable` pump. The metal shroud/collar moves up and down to cover the impellor and effectively exclude the main coolant circuit and radiator when the car is cold. It allows the car to warm up quicker and improves emissions targets blah blah blah. When the car is warmed up, it `opens` to allow the impellor to utilise the main cooling system.

It's ok when it works but when it fails or starts to stick, it stays in the closed or partly closed position and your car overheats very quickly.

In this pic, the red arrow points to the widget and that moves up and down (open/closed) to allow the impellor to work. It was only designed to reduce start up emissions etc and it isn't necessary for any other reason that I can see. Due to its resounding success, there is now a wide range of OEM non-widget versions available.

I'm pretty sure that mine was part of a Gates cambelt kit - this is the paperwork that came with it. I've had no issues since it was fitted in early 2020.

This is a close up of my pump, where the widget got stuck halfway. This caused a rapid overheat but then it would suddenly release and temps would drop. That was why we thought it was the thermostat initially as it behaved like a sticky thermostat. That got replaced with no joy, so the pump was next. Got the cambelt done at the same time. It was a tad early but worth doing as well.

There you are - now you know the dirty inner workings of the really annoying water pump.

Up to you if you go non-switchable. Not everyone has issues, but if you do, it's a nightmare.

 

[SuperV8]

When I did my cam belt I went with a new genuine pump with 'electric widget'
My original one was working fine. They are changed every 5 years anyway so figured it was low risk? There must be thousands of engines running fine with these.

 

[BillyCool]

When I did my cam belt I went with a new genuine pump with 'electric widget'
My original one was working fine. They are changed every 5 years anyway so figured it was low risk? There must be thousands of engines running fine with these.

I'm not saying it impacts every car but there was certainly a bad batch that impacted ST TDI's. Newer pumps may well be improved versions. It was such an unpleasant (and expensive) experience for me that I'm happy to stay away from them.

 

[SuperV8]

I'm not saying it impacts every car but there was certainly a bad batch that impacted ST TDI's. Newer pumps may well be improved versions. It was such an unpleasant (and expensive) experience for me that I'm happy to stay away from them.

View attachment 40649

Agreed, If I was in your position - and had a stuck pump shroud and overheating issues I too would probably fit an aftermarket one without shroud.

Just adding some balance - and that (for me at least) they don't seem to be a common issue - yours being the only one which springs to mind on here? Compared to the heater matrix issue which I would say is very common/design issue - I think this coolant pump issue is rare.

You have to way up the chance of having a stuck shroud within 5 years before the next cam belt change vs using an aftermarket pump (none genuine) which can also have their issues (bearing/seals are not perfect) and the longer warm up time - which maybe can effect other parts of the engine if more short journeys are done? Maybe it increases DPF warm up time? Maybe negligible?

 

[caledonian]

I'm not saying it impacts every car but there was certainly a bad batch that impacted ST TDI's. Newer pumps may well be improved versions. It was such an unpleasant (and expensive) experience for me that I'm happy to stay away from them.

View attachment 40649

I've a feeling this should be stickied? Great information again Billy thank you, explained in a way that makes complete sense aswell, I'm going to show this to my independent mechanic and see what he thinks, he did ask if it had the widget or not at the time so I imagine he's aware of the issues

 

[martin j.]

I changed last September and bought the boss a Kia, spec and colour she wanted, since I had worked in the dealer I got what I considered to be a good deal, best trade in by £750 and a discount on the car she wanted over selling price- cheaper than similar ex demos in autotrader- when I saw the asking price I was shocked, £1500 dearer than others available, it sat for a while and what it actually sold for I don’t know.
2015 1.4 fr 40k miles trade in £8250.

 

[NieveHopkins]

Right well looks like I may have got ahead of myself here. Not only has the price of used cars gone way up but it appears the trade in Values have gone down, dealers are trying to offer me 6~6500 for my Leon (2017 2.0 tdi 184 FR 80k) they are then trying to sell that on for 9~10k?!?!?! I had to renew my insurance there and they valued the car at 10k. Since when did they start having a 3k mark up on trade in's?

I understand they'll have repairs, wa and overheads but it seems excessive.

On top of that loan rates have doubled, To pay roughly what I'm paying now I'd need to take a huge hit in spec for any car. I might just have to take my chances with mine and maybe spend a bit of money on it.

Hello, what is a result of your idea? What have you done and what going on with your car right now?