Towbar electrics

[PhilKnight]

We had an independent specialist install a towbar and electrics (7 pin plugs) just after buying our Seat Altea XL Stylance 1.9 TDi (in part because the dealer encouraged us to due to the high cost of Seat kit and fitting). Mainly, this works fine, but three or four times we have hooked up to find the electrics dead. The fitter keeps doing something to restore the power, and this time I'm going to ask him to show me what he does.
Anyone else having similar problems and know the solution?

 

[chrisash32]

We had an independent specialist install a towbar and electrics (7 pin plugs) just after buying our Seat Altea XL Stylance 1.9 TDi (in part because the dealer encouraged us to due to the high cost of Seat kit and fitting). Mainly, this works fine, but three or four times we have hooked up to find the electrics dead. The fitter keeps doing something to restore the power, and this time I'm going to ask him to show me what he does.
Anyone else having similar problems and know the solution?

I do believe this is related to the bulb alarm system... Which if it detects a fault on that circuit the shuts the circuit off after 2 seconds. (if its the lights you are referring to..)
This is the reason i had to take my Altea to SEAT in the end as the garage i was going to take it to warned me that this could happen without the official kit.

Cost me about £380 all fitted at SEAT in the end.

 

[PhilKnight]

Yes, it is the lights output from the car that doesn't work - well it might also be the overall feed to the caravan's internal electrics, but I have no reliable way of testing that.
I really hope it doesn't need re-wiring from the ground up!!

 

[chrisash32]

Yes, it is the lights output from the car that doesn't work - well it might also be the overall feed to the caravan's internal electrics, but I have no reliable way of testing that.
I really hope it doesn't need re-wiring from the ground up!!

do you know if they have used a relay box in the boot or not?

 

[PhilKnight]

They seemto have done - inside boot compartment there are 2 "inspection hatches" into the trim at nearside and offisde by rear lights, and there's a junction box in the offside one.

 

[chrisash32]

They seemto have done - inside boot compartment there are 2 "inspection hatches" into the trim at nearside and offisde by rear lights, and there's a junction box in the offside one.

without your caravan / trailer hitched up, put and indicator on... can you hear the relay clicking? and likewise when hooked up does it beep?

 

[PhilKnight]

Can't comment on position without van connected, as car is at home. No beep etc. when connected as far as I remember.

 

[chrisash32]

Can't comment on position without van connected, as car is at home. No beep etc. when connected as far as I remember.

ok, they may not have put a relay box in... when you are with the car at home, just listen for a clicking when your hazards on etc etc from inside the boot..
You don't need the c-van hooked up to do that.

 

[PhilKnight]

OK will check and get back - or if I get a solution from the towbar fitter, I'll record that.

Thanks

 

[PhilKnight]

Resolution

The fitter tells me that the only conclusion he can come to is that (like some VW models) the Seat has a cut-out function if the towing electrics are left unused for a while (and I don't tow very often), which cuts out the live feed to the towing outputs as they relate to the lights - he says that the other feed, which runs things like the internal electrics in the caravan (such as the fridge) remains live. As he put it, you can keep your beer cold but don't have any running lights on the towed item!
The solution is to turn off the ignition and remove the two (red) fuses for the rear lighting circuit (which I believe are numbered 40 and 41 in the Seat manual), which are at the top left of the fuse box under the steering wheel, leave them out for 20 seconds or more, then re-insert the ones you removed - note that there is no need to replace the fuses. Turn on the ignition and the outlet to the towed vehicle should be live. Sometimes, he says, you may need to repeat the process and also remove the yellow fuse immediately to the left of the two red ones, then re-insert all of them and have a live outlet.
Seems whacky to me, but it works!
Logically, the only place this cut-off can operate is in a relay between the rear light clusters (from which the feed to the towing outlets comes) and the towing outlets - as otherwise, surely the car would drop the power to the rear light clusters. I neglected to ask him whether the relay was native to the Seat or was part of the kit he installed.
So, I now know how to resolve this issue, and hope the note is helpful to others.
It would be interesting to know if anyone knows if the relay is integral on an 07 Seat Altea XL, or would have to be fitted on installing the towbar and outlets.

 

[_Lynn]

Hi, I'm in the process of getting quotes for tow bars and electrics, and wondered if anyone has a fixed tow bar on a seat altea and finds this does not impact the parking sensors when reversing un towed. I.e they still work, I'm being advised detachable is the only guaranteed way

 

[markirel]

I have a 57 XL and no issues with towbar electrics which were also specialist installed. Don't use it too often but never had a need to reset as you describe. Maybe there is more than one way of wiring the electrics ?

Lynn, my towball is the removable type but when fitted it plays havoc with the reversing sensors. For this reason I'd encourage the detachable route unless someone else can confirm that you won't have a problem with a fixed one.

 

[_Lynn]

Thanks Markirel,

I had a feeling this would be the case, I will keep my fingers crossed the electrics are ok. How long have you had your detachable towbar? What make is it? I've read online they start to wear after a couple of years and therefore need replacing....

 

[markirel]

It's a Witter towbar which I've had on for nearly 2-years. It's a fairly neat design and reasonably discrete (the sockets are the biggest visible parts). I've pulled a light trailer with my motorbike and a medium sized caravan (1300 kg) for a couple of holiday's. Can't say I've ever considered wear to be an issue, the metal is unlikely to have any significantly different weat characteristics to any bolt-on towball. My caravan has an Alko stabiliser and the friction pads are the sacrificial parts. Witter can supply spare swan neck towballs which I believe are universal across their detatchable range (its the bracket which fits to the car that varies). Sure it will be more expensive than fixed but the option is still there if needed.

 

[idmorris]

Im going through the process of finding out which is the best fit for my 56 plate Tolly. One supplier says you need a specific kit because of the bulb failure system, reverse sensors, fog light and recode for ESP/TSP (not sure thats needed though) and another says I can get away with just bypass relays. God, its doing my head in!!!! but anyway....

Phil ....so the fitter is saying the car light circuit has a time delay that times out after so many days/weeks if the van aint used. I know its possible but does sound verrrrry strange

Chris Ash says: 'I do believe this is related to the bulb alarm system... Which if it detects a fault on that circuit the shuts the circuit off after 2 seconds'

Also having a look at my Toledo handbook it says that fuses 39 -41 incl are feeds to the 'Trailer Control Unit' and fuse 42,53 & 55 is for the 'Towing Ring kit - (Assistance solution) !!! At this moment i aint got a clue what they do!!! (And according to my book there more fuses under the bonnet...I will have a look tomorrow as its snowing at mo)

Anyway with these things in mind, could there be a problem with your 'van' lights/wiring. I take it you only took the car back to the fitter and not with the 'van'. Has there possibly been nothing wrong with the car apart from the 'Trailer Control Unit' had 'locked out' and could only be 'reset' by removing the power supply to it.

Is there another car you can check your 'van' lights on. If you can, plug your 'van in and go around all the light clusters/housings and give them a tap...knock..thump. If they still ok. possibly remove the clusters/housings and with the lights turned on move the cluster about and see if the lights flash/go off. From my breif ownership of a 'snail on wheels' a loose earth connection on any of the 'van light clusters can cause very strange illuminations and so with an all singing and dancing bulb fail system could possibly cause a problem like yours.

Other things to consider would be to flex the cable which connects to the car with the lights switched on and see if there is any flashing etc. Also get to your cars 12N socket and check to see if all the connections are tight.

Hope my thoughts help......

 

[idmorris]

ooops.....need to realise its a bit late answering a 2009 thread when its 2010.

 

[idmorris]

Mark...do your reverse sensors sound with just the towbar ball fitted? A work colleague has a XL with a fixed swan neck and he doesnt get any interference from it.