Diesel from a BP Garage.

[wef24]

Hi Guys,
I was out tonight when the fuel light came on so, I headed to the nearest garage to me at the time, which was a BP one, upon pulling up at the pump I saw a sticker on both diesel pumps green and black handles which read '7 % bio-diesel', now I run a Leon, which is a 2.0 litre 140 horsepower PD diesel, engine code BKD, which according to the manual will not take Bio-diesel, also says so on the sticker on inside of fuel flap

I went into the garage to ask the attendant about this, his reply was 'what sticker, ahh the 7% Bio-diesel one, thats new, but all diesel contains Bio products' on this I went back outside and thought, err on the side of caution, so I put £5-00 worth of diesel (out the black handled pump) into the tank and thought I'll fill her up at my regular garage a Shell, went in and paid and the attendant showed me a print off which basically said that because regulation had changed, Scotland, that they, BP, had to put this new sticker up, on its pumps

I was wondering if anyone else had heard anything about this or seen one of these stickers, do you think I have done any damage by using this fuel

Many Thanks
Edd.

 

[Sooty torques]

Yep, the 5% bio-diesel is pretty common and has been for a number of years AFAIK. Using a low-percentage of bio-diesel is one way of reducing the sulphur content for fuels like 'City Diesel'. The warning about using bio-diesel is aimed at high percentage bio-diesel - up to 100% bio - as the bio-diesel can damage seals and fuel lines by attacking certain plastics and rubbers.

I don't think you need to worry about a 7% blend.

 

[FR dagley]

All VAG diesel engines are approved for 100% bio diesel so 7% is gonna do nothing. I have not seen these stickers but i fill up at total. Still nothing to worry about personally if i could i would run mine on 100% bio diesel more power

As for the engine not taking bio diesel i dont think so mines a 54 plate 1.9 PD 130 and it states in my manual that i can have Bio diesel upto 100% tho it advises 50:50 in winter as the freezing point is lower. Still very strange that mine is fully proofed for bio diesel and yours isnt.

 

[Sooty torques]

All VAG diesel engines are approved for 100% bio diesel

Are they...??? You sure about that...???

My manual states:

Only those vehicles fitted with special equipment (number PR 2GO for biodiesel use) may use biodiesel corresponding to the standard DIN EN 14214.

The biodiesel must comply with DIN EN 14.214 (FAME) standard.

If the date sticker of the vehicle includes the number PR 2GO optional equipment this means that the vehicle has been prepared for biodiesel use.

Then later:

! Caution
RME fuel (biodiesel) can damage the fuel system in vehicles which are not suitably adjusted.

Lets be careful out there and not jump to conclusions without doing a bit of sensible research first!

 

[Sooty torques]

As for the engine not taking bio diesel i dont think so mines a 54 plate 1.9 PD 130 and it states in my manual that i can have Bio diesel upto 100% tho it advises 50:50 in winter as the freezing point is lower. Still very strange that mine is fully proofed for bio diesel and yours isnt.

Ahh - your edit is a totally different ball game. Edd's is a Mk 2; I used to have a 53 plate (MY 04) 130 TDI 1.9 and that did say that bio-diesel was ok - BUT many folks on the continent and in the USA had major problems with damaged seals and fuel lines when they tried running on 100% biodiesel, hence the back-track by VAG to the current stance of advising that engines need modifying before running on 100% biodiesel.

 

[James_R]

All VAG diesel engines are approved for 100% bio diesel.

Be careful where you go with that advice because i know for a fact that on 100% of pd engined cars it has a sticker which says "not suitable for bio diesel" on the inside of the fuel flaps, in the owners manuals and even on the keyrings from the factory.
I've seen the effects of bio-diesel when used in pd engines and i have to say you certainly wont be getting any more power but your fuel economy will go through the roof when your cars on the back of a transporter.

 

[FR dagley]

Be careful where you go with that advice because i know for a fact that on 100% of pd engined cars it has a sticker which says "not suitable for bio diesel" on the inside of the fuel flaps, in the owners manuals and even on the keyrings from the factory.

Well mine says in the manual i can and theres no sticker either. Basicly this 7% stuff is fine its an extremely low percentage it will make sod all difference at that ratio. Do whatever it says in ur manual m8 im going by mine.

 

[James_R]

Bio diesel in the motor trade refers to diesel mixed (or cut) with another fuel substance like cooking oil to make it go further, not fuel bought from a fuel station with addatives in that has a sticker on it claiming its bio diesel.
i'm refering to the first kind that if used in pd engined cars would block the injectors and render them un-usable.
i dont go off a manual because the info in them ( in yours for instance which the info is years old) is changed on a weekly basis, i have seen the effects of using 50/50 bio diesel mix in a pd and its not what the owner intended.

but on a short note using super market 'bio' branded fuel should be fine unless its stated otherwise.

 

[techie]

SEAT also appreciate the 3% min regs now which is why they brought the diesel filter change down from 60k to 40k.

 

[wef24]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the many and varied replies, I didn't know if the 7% mix was ok as I'm new to Deisel and still learning.(Didn't know there was Bio-Elements in Deisel, it's true you never stop learning) The manual I have also quotes the same as post No5 by Sooty Torques.

Thanks again
Edd

 

[Viking]

Morrisons used to (maybe still do) run a 30% biodiesel fuel. I used it once in the van when I was in a dash and by the end of the tank the engine management light was on and the por thing wouldn't run well at all. It'd clogged the fuel filter well and truley. Changed it out and the same thing happened again about 500 miles later.

Higher percentage biodiesel is more solvent than lower percentage and it dissolves and mobilises the residue in the bottom of the tank and in the fuel lines. If you persevere long nough changing fuel filters then it should run okay. Then you're into the realms of the fuel system actually being suitable to run with a higher solvency fuel. This is the tricky bit which means that VAG are constantly changing the specs in the handbooks. Parts of the fuel system can fail if the fuel has too much biodiesel in.

I know my example was rather extreme, in a van with 220k miles on it there will have been plenty of crap to dissolve and filter out, but you get the picture.

Normal 5% bio only for me from now on.

 

[muddyboots]

All VAG diesel engines are approved for 100% bio diesel so 7% is gonna do nothing. I have not seen these stickers but i fill up at total. Still nothing to worry about personally if i could i would run mine on 100% bio diesel more power

As for the engine not taking bio diesel i dont think so mines a 54 plate 1.9 PD 130 and it states in my manual that i can have Bio diesel upto 100% tho it advises 50:50 in winter as the freezing point is lower. Still very strange that mine is fully proofed for bio diesel and yours isnt.

VAG did for a while say that 100% bio could be used so long as it met some standard (my 2003 Ibiza PD130 said the same in the manual), but they changed their policy shortly after.

I wouldn't have any qualms about using a 7% blend though; I imagine the VAG policy change was to protect themselves from warranty claims by people running high %age and/or home-brewed bio, as there is little control over what standards the fuels would have been produced to.

 

[andycupra]

i thought it was legislated by out current government that all petrol and diesel must be at least 5% bio..

 

[Viking]

i thought it was legislated by out current government that all petrol and diesel must be at least 5% bio..

That's pretty close. What it actually stands at is that fuels must contain up to 5% biofuels to comply with BS.EN590 (for diesel), and pumps selling fuel complying with this standard will be labelled as such. Suppliers can sell fuel with a higher % mix of biofuels but cannot sell it labelled as compliant. Blends such as B30 (30%) can be sold if labelled as such to distinguish them from the 5% stuff.

Diesel cars are made to be compliant with BS.EN590 and as such will have no problem with any standard fuel in the UK

 

[Tahiti]

Slightly off topic, are the "performance" diesels (V Power and BP Ultimate) any better than the normal stuff?

 

[FR dagley]

Simpliy yes, i have tried shell Vpower diesel and noticed a difference not really in power but MPG went up by about 2-3MPG nothing much but personally i think it runs better.

Depends if this justifies an extra few pennies on fuel that is now about £1.20 a litre. personally i fill up at a total with normal diesel and then put millers in.