Water meth - pd gains?

[rod the sod]

Hey i am thinking about getting water meth in the next few months, just wondering what are the gains i should expect from the stage 2 devils own kit for example? there isnt much info about this topic for the pd engine!

cheers

 

[devonmikeyboy]

Lower cylinder temps,EGT and inlet temps. Power gain very little unless your car is very heavily modified and already pushed to the limit.

 

[rod the sod]

I am currently running 220bhp on a hybrid turbo so pretty much stumped for making any bigger power or run better. just been looking at your thread, maybe propane too? do you have any problems with internals etc?

 

[devonmikeyboy]

My old engine had no problems with internals but have just fitted some forged rods to the new engine set up. If you want more fuel injected fit bigger injectors. Bosio R783 which are good for 280ish bhp or for more power you need some Firad nozzles. R783 nozzles can be bought fitted or unfitted from http://www.diesel-service.nl/shop/index.php?page=details&prod=12&cat=4&group=3 .

 

[rod the sod]

oh wicked! the injectors are a little bit of a pain to change on these engines ain they? so would you recommend the water meth or the propane or both? obviously with the changing of the injectors! i defo need to reduce my egt temps!

sorry for all the questions!

cheers

 

[jonjay]

I would personally say go for watermeth as you get the benefits as stated by Mike in the above.

Peak power gain might not be massive if you leave the remap as it is however what you will get it than extra 5-10bhp over the whole range. If you get the water taken into account you should gain a tad more. Ultimately lower temps in general is a very good idea.

 

[rod the sod]

Thats a tricky one! need lower egt temps etc but with only a 5 to 10 bhp increase not too sure! you kno anyone else running water meth on a derv? i didnt think it would have to b mapped in on top but thinking about it that would b best!

 

[trebormint]

I've got it installed on a remapped pd130,but its not working yet.

Had a couple of issues with the way it was installed, then the wiring was wrong and have now ordered a 3rd controller!

Will get it rolling roaded with and without it on. Not sure what mix to try it out with. Might start 75% water/25% meth.

 

[devonmikeyboy]

oh wicked! the injectors are a little bit of a pain to change on these engines ain they? so would you recommend the water meth or the propane or both? obviously with the changing of the injectors! i defo need to reduce my egt temps!

sorry for all the questions!

cheers

Injectors are easy to change but to remove then fit new PD nozzles in the injector bodies is a specialist thing. Forget about propane as that will increase your cylinder and EGT temps. What EGT temps are you running at the moment then ?

 

[rod the sod]

Injectors are easy to change but to remove then fit new PD nozzles in the injector bodies is a specialist thing. Forget about propane as that will increase your cylinder and EGT temps. What EGT temps are you running at the moment then ?

I am not 100 % sure of the exact temps but when i went to my last rolling road the bloke testing my car said that its way too smokey and the temps are way too high! how would i find out the temps? would i have to fit a gauge?

 

[rod the sod]

I've got it installed on a remapped pd130,but its not working yet.

Had a couple of issues with the way it was installed, then the wiring was wrong and have now ordered a 3rd controller!

Will get it rolling roaded with and without it on. Not sure what mix to try it out with. Might start 75% water/25% meth.

Will be very interested to hear the outcomes of you rolling road! did you fit your kit yourself?

 

[devonmikeyboy]

I am not 100 % sure of the exact temps but when i went to my last rolling road the bloke testing my car said that its way too smokey and the temps are way too high! how would i find out the temps? would i have to fit a gauge?

Smoke output has nothing to do with EGT temps as that is down to mapping. I would love to know how the RR operator knows what temps your car is running at as he cannot tell by any data from the RR and you have admitted you don`t have any gauges to see. To know what EGT temp your car is running you will need an EGT gauge and a temp probe that should be placed in the exhaust manifold next to the turbo.

 

[rod the sod]

Smoke output has nothing to do with EGT temps as that is down to mapping. I would love to know how the RR operator knows what temps your car is running at as he cannot tell by any data from the RR and you have admitted you don`t have any gauges to see. To know what EGT temp your car is running you will need an EGT gauge and a temp probe that should be placed in the exhaust manifold next to the turbo.

Ok i will look into getting a gauge first then! he did have a probe in the exhaust whilst my car was on the RR, not sure if he could have got the EGT temps from that! i havent got a cody of the results from the probe but could prob get hold of them!

 

[devonmikeyboy]

To be blunt as usual he will not have a clue what your EGT temps are with a probe in the exhaust. Also most people who operate a RR are petrol heads and don`t know shite about diesel tuning and just tend to put petrol results,knowledge etc straight on to diesel cars. My cars old engine used to easily reach 850 C EGT`s and when run hard 950 C and ran for three years with no problems.

 

[rod the sod]

ok cool! will get a gauge first to see wat temps i am running! if your car was ok for a few years mine should b! just got worried when he told me the temps were too high - but as you said, he is probably a petrol head lol!

cheers for the help

 

[trebormint]

Will be very interested to hear the outcomes of you rolling road! did you fit your kit yourself?

No,it was fitted by methanol injection uk in Salisbury. Problem was it was a new type of controller and he was not sure how to wire it in!

Controller failed, had to get meth uk to find out how it was wired from alcohol injection in the US!

New controller arrived and I wired it in according to the new wiring instructions.

Was working fine but I noticed water/meth in the clear boost tubing to the controller.

Problem was that the new controller also has a built in map sensor and needs a boost reading from the engine.

It was decided to use the boost take off port in EGR replacement valve, and tubing was routed through the bulkhead into passenger compartment.

Unfortunately the boost take off is AFTER the water/meth injection jet (fitted into bespoke post intercooler piping) - I also have a forge map sensor pipe so the map sensor reads the lower temps after the water/meth is injected.

So water/meth was being injected but then was being fed into the boost tubing from EGR valve and thus into the controller. It failed again.

I've now plumbed the boost tubing into a pipe after the intercooler but before the jet.

Now just waiting for the new controller and 3rd time lucky it will work this time.

 

[trebormint]

Wmi

Was indeed 3rd time lucky!

New controller wired in and all working perfectly.

Will now try and get it rolling roaded this week, if not it have to wait a couple of weeks.

Also thinking about adding a pre-turbo nozzle too


Just like to say thanks to Bruce @ methanol-injection uk for his help and speedy response in supplying replacement controllers.

 

[jonjay]

Was indeed 3rd time lucky!

New controller wired in and all working perfectly.

Will now try and get it rolling roaded this week, if not it have to wait a couple of weeks.

Also thinking about adding a pre-turbo nozzle too


Just like to say thanks to Bruce @ methanol-injection uk for his help and speedy response in supplying replacement controllers.

Pre turbo nozzels have been proving not to be effective for Deisels.

 

[Fishy]

They also kill the inlet blades over time.

Fish

 

[trebormint]

Pre turbo nozzels have been proving not to be effective for Deisels.

Any reason why not?