1.2 tsi fr epc light

[imz83]

Hi

On monday went to buy a seat ibiza 1.2 tsi fr that i drove for a test drive one day ago
the test drive went nice and i was so happy
i told the dealer i will come up tomorrow to buy it

The car is just under 3 years so i went for it as there is still 2 months left for the warranty
its a march 2013 model

So i had the test drive on sunday
on monday i went directly paid
got the invoice paperwork etc

I just sat in the car to drive away saying bye to the dealer
just when i saw an epc light

Straight away i asked him about that light ( as it wasn't there yesterday)
He said he doesn't know a bit

He drove the car to his garagist who repair cars for him
came back to me in 10 mins saying it was nothing you can go

I said ok

I just went out starting my journey back home
i just passed 2nd gear and no power at all!
I looked at the dashboard for any problem
the epc light was there again and now the engine light

With difficulty i went back to him

Again he took the car to that guy who connected it with his machine saying there is no fault so ever

Having paid fully and even 1 year insurance straight away i felt robbed

I said to him keep the car check it i will be back

Today he rang me to say there was indeed a fault stating a turbo actuator
that he contacted seat to make the replacement as its still under the 3 years warranty and the part should come on friday

I have several questions in my mind now

- having paid fully everything ( car price, road tax 1 year, full insjrance 1 year)
I am now thinking did i buy a dodgy or a car who is going to give me nightmares??
- should i / can i cancel the purchase and ask for full refund?
- this epc thing is it something serious??
- should i tell him to do an ecu update

Can somebody help me out i am just afraid i did buy a car which is going to make problems for me
the only good thing i have the car still has 2 montbs seat warranty left and the dealer gave me 12 months aa warranty
If that problem happened after the seat warranty would hqve expired, does the AA would have coevered that?


Sorry for the long post

Thanks to anyone who could help me out

Big cheers to this great forum

 

[RUM4MO]

Warning:- I do not know all these facts from personal experience, but from exposure to VAG car forums!

Right, so that is the advisory bit out of the way! I seem to remember that there can be an issue with that actuator and it might mean a turbo replacement if the actuator can not be replaced itself on that model of turbo. So, lucky discovery and good to start life with a car that has just had a known problem fixed, I get the feeling that the root cause of this problem is the actuator either by virtue of its design or its manufacture, so there should not be any other hidden issues relating to this.

Maybe this is one reason why I could never sell used cars, I'd always "over" prepare/check them!

 

[alijay036]

You are within your rights to cancel the purchase as you should have a 14 day cooling off period, once the warranty would be liable to pay for any work done to the car. The good thing is that when they replace the Turbo Actuator, there will be a warranty on that work (normally 12 months). Did you by this from an approved Seat Used car dealer?

 

[imz83]

Didn't buy from a seat dealership

But all the staff has been very nice and cool till now
they said we will sort everything out for you
if the car comes to me ok
as there is still 2 months seat warranty left of the basic 3 years
will i be able also to go directly to seat for any problems?
they gave me 12months Aa warranty with the sale aswell

Should i be relax?

Thanks again for your reply

 

[RUM4MO]

You are within your rights to cancel the purchase as you should have a 14 day cooling off period, once the warranty would be liable to pay for any work done to the car. The good thing is that when they replace the Turbo Actuator, there will be a warranty on that work (normally 12 months). Did you by this from an approved Seat Used car dealer?

I don't agree with the warranty repair coming with 12 months warranty, normal outside warranty repairs that you pay for are covered by a 12 month warranty, repairs and replacement of parts carried out while the car is still inside Seat new car warranty - and are FOC - only get covered by warranty up until the original warranty expires.

 

[RUM4MO]

Didn't buy from a seat dealership

But all the staff has been very nice and cool till now
they said we will sort everything out for you
if the car comes to me ok
as there is still 2 months seat warranty left of the basic 3 years
will i be able also to go directly to seat for any problems?
they gave me 12months Aa warranty with the sale aswell

Should i be relax?

Thanks again for your reply

If you feel that this car is all you wanted, then yes, relax and accept that you have just had a known fault repaired. I bought an Audi S4 a couple of years ago, it had just had all its brakes replaced due to braking issues - that meant that I was getting a 2 years old car with new discs and pads - I was quite happy about that and still am!

Edit:- although being a long term AA member, I'd think that your warranty will not be up to much - a bit like the rest of the AA - though hopefully you will not need to test it too much!

 

[VeeFource]

Gutted, just spent 25 mins writing a response and my computer spazzed so sorry if this reply is a bit rushed:

I've just experienced the EPC fault on our 2011 1.2 TSI Ibiza. Having done a fair bit of research there are two fault conditions you can get with the Mahle rotary electronic actuator (REA), most commonly a P334B mechanical malfunction which shows itself when driving and particularly lifting off after heavy acceleration. The second is a P334A electrical malfunction which shows itself on startup, so I'd be willing to bet you had the former.

As I understand it, the mechanical error is given when the REA finds fault with the turbo, i.e. sticking VNT due to carbon build up. This error was also very prominent with pre 2012 cars as they had a design flaw due to VW not doing their tolerance stacks properly. This was fixed under a TPI by fitting a 2mm shim to move the actuator (a metal disc that can be seen sandwiched between the actuator and the turbo mounting bracket) and a software update. With the OPs car being a 2012, it shouldn't have had this latter issue and I imagine will have been fitted with the updated parts.

The electrical error is given when the REA finds fault with itself when there is a discrepency between the ECU's output to the motor and what it receives as an input from the position sensor inside the REA. This is the problem I've had on ours and is detailed in the "1.2 TSI P334A" thread which unfortunately no one's replied to, but then it is a much rarer fault as I've come to discover. Fortunately I've found a solution using just a tiny bit of glue, a spray of lube and some electrical contact solution which I'll detail in that thread once I get chance with some pics too.

SEAT's default move on either of these errors will be to replace the turbo + REA as a unit (circa £800-£1000 just for parts) as each REA is calibrated to it's corresponding turbo during manufacture. Good news if you're still under warranty as you'll get some shiney new bits that may even be freer of the gremlins which plagued the earlier versions. Not so good if you're not in warranty, especially as you can't replace just an actuator due to the calibration issue.

I'd be very surprised if the dealer wasn't able to detect the fault as it's considered a high priority error and even though the EPC light can be cleared with ignition cycling, the fault will remain logged in the ECU until cleared by the garage. Therefore I consider it very poor on their part that they've wanted to avoid hassle on a car with a potentially serious problem that's still under warranty. They're probably quite bitter about being landed with a car with a fault the previous owner may well have been aware of but traded it in knowing the fault was unlikely to present itself under normal conditions.

On a final note, I wouldn't give up on this car if I were you. I know that's a biased thing to read on a SEAT site, but it really is a fantastic bit of kit foibles aside. I was a bit shocked as to how basic and cheap the Mahle REA looked inside, but every car has it's achillis heel. Plus with yours being a 2012 you don't need to worry so much about the timing chain issues that plagued the earlier 1.2 TSIs either. To me these are one of the best sounding mass produced small engines out there (rivalling a Panda 100) for the best induction noise/mpg. Ok they're not the most economical but then they're really punchy for what they are. The Ibizas themselves are great too as they're one of the few small cars out there that offer big car comfort with small car dynamics. Good luck with your warranty claim, but really if you don't get anything other than a new turbo you should consider rejecting the car (and getting another one ).

 

[RUM4MO]

Good info this, yes it is a bit annoying when "you" seem to be the first/only person with a specific fault/problem.

Maybe not as annoying as when you write a long screed and your computer "says no" - I've had that happen when my session has timed out on certain forums, mainly I just go "f--- that!" and get on with something else, though sometimes I do do the honourable thing and generate a new posting in the interest of supporting the forum users!

 

[Yorkie911]

I have a 61 plate 1.2 tsi and get the P334/P334a fault code and EPC light come on mine all the time when its cold. The first year I had the car it probably only happened once, second year only a handful of times and now it seems to happen roughly 2 or 3 times a month in winter(rarely if ever in summer). Mine always comes on about 10 seconds after the car is started followed by an immediate loss in all power (feels like it has 10bhp). Although it scared me at first, turning the engine off and on again clears the EPC light and the car immediately returns back to normal.

My car did have the recall in 2012 but I have a feeling that it never solved the problem entirely. From what I've managed to gather from online sources, as long as you aren't seeing the P334b code, you shouldn't really have much to worry about.

My car has been remapped to 130hp for over a year now and this doesn't appear to have affected this issue.

 

[imz83]

Gutted, just spent 25 mins writing a response and my computer spazzed so sorry if this reply is a bit rushed:

I've just experienced the EPC fault on our 2011 1.2 TSI Ibiza. Having done a fair bit of research there are two fault conditions you can get with the Mahle rotary electronic actuator (REA), most commonly a P334B mechanical malfunction which shows itself when driving and particularly lifting off after heavy acceleration. The second is a P334A electrical malfunction which shows itself on startup, so I'd be willing to bet you had the former.

As I understand it, the mechanical error is given when the REA finds fault with the turbo, i.e. sticking VNT due to carbon build up. This error was also very prominent with pre 2012 cars as they had a design flaw due to VW not doing their tolerance stacks properly. This was fixed under a TPI by fitting a 2mm shim to move the actuator (a metal disc that can be seen sandwiched between the actuator and the turbo mounting bracket) and a software update. With the OPs car being a 2012, it shouldn't have had this latter issue and I imagine will have been fitted with the updated parts.

The electrical error is given when the REA finds fault with itself when there is a discrepency between the ECU's output to the motor and what it receives as an input from the position sensor inside the REA. This is the problem I've had on ours and is detailed in the "1.2 TSI P334A" thread which unfortunately no one's replied to, but then it is a much rarer fault as I've come to discover. Fortunately I've found a solution using just a tiny bit of glue, a spray of lube and some electrical contact solution which I'll detail in that thread once I get chance with some pics too.

SEAT's default move on either of these errors will be to replace the turbo + REA as a unit (circa £800-£1000 just for parts) as each REA is calibrated to it's corresponding turbo during manufacture. Good news if you're still under warranty as you'll get some shiney new bits that may even be freer of the gremlins which plagued the earlier versions. Not so good if you're not in warranty, especially as you can't replace just an actuator due to the calibration issue.

I'd be very surprised if the dealer wasn't able to detect the fault as it's considered a high priority error and even though the EPC light can be cleared with ignition cycling, the fault will remain logged in the ECU until cleared by the garage. Therefore I consider it very poor on their part that they've wanted to avoid hassle on a car with a potentially serious problem that's still under warranty. They're probably quite bitter about being landed with a car with a fault the previous owner may well have been aware of but traded it in knowing the fault was unlikely to present itself under normal conditions.

On a final note, I wouldn't give up on this car if I were you. I know that's a biased thing to read on a SEAT site, but it really is a fantastic bit of kit foibles aside. I was a bit shocked as to how basic and cheap the Mahle REA looked inside, but every car has it's achillis heel. Plus with yours being a 2012 you don't need to worry so much about the timing chain issues that plagued the earlier 1.2 TSIs either. To me these are one of the best sounding mass produced small engines out there (rivalling a Panda 100) for the best induction noise/mpg. Ok they're not the most economical but then they're really punchy for what they are. The Ibizas themselves are great too as they're one of the few small cars out there that offer big car comfort with small car dynamics. Good luck with your warranty claim, but really if you don't get anything other than a new turbo you should consider rejecting the car (and getting another one ).

Amazing piece of information
thanks to you for all your time typing all that and also all other members here

So what i understand is...

The car is right now at seat dealership for repair( polite reminer its a 2013 model not 2012 ) so they going to do repair under the warranty
- should i push them to replace the turbo? Because as far as i know its been one week they waiting for the turbo actuator to come and replace it
- i should not accept the car if only the turbo actuator is replaced and ask tht delaer to cancel tbe purchase? ( i had a talk he is already ready to give me some kind of compensation or even to cancel the purchase as i still have the cooling off period to cancel the purchase)

What do you advise me?

 

[RUM4MO]

As the car has been passed to a SEAT main dealer for warranty work, I'd think that you have no say in what the contents of the repair are as the work will be getting done under the terms of the original car warranty, or at least the supporting 2nd and 3rd year limited warranty.

What I would demand of the place that you are buying it from, is a brief typed out on their headed paper, resume' of exactly what work has been carried out, and probably make sure that there is a record of that work in that car's official SEAT service record and something also in the service documentation - just in case something crops up later!

It might just be that the turbo type/model in your car allows the SEAT main dealer to replace just the actuator - I don't know, but one thing is sure, if you go in heavy handed to either the repairing dealer or the car sales place with some facts taken from internet discussions, they can do one of two things, accept what you are saying and do something about it - or show you the door. Most repair places for any items just hate it when they are faced with internet knowledge I've had that a few times, one that sticks out is when getting a TV/VHS Player combo repaired "it needs a £120 power supply" - the (trade) knowledge data base, which they should be using said swop a capacitor and resistor values in an RC start-up circuit, cost to me £3.00, luckily in that case when I went back with this newly found internet knowledge they raged and got the combo back from their out sourced fixer and I repaired it for £3.00!

Bottom line, if that actuator is not available as a SEAT spare part, then that main dealer will not be able to replace it.