1.8FR performance lag and absence

[woodinblack]

Just got a 1.8fr leon, 14 reg. Actually had it for a few months but had a month of the road due to a knee op.
However, I am sure this isn't right. Sometimes when I go to pull away for a short while there is nothing, no power at all, and then it jumps in, so it is not smooth.
The other issue is that sometimes if I am drifting forwards, like wating for a gap in traffic to turn across, then I stop and immediately go again, there is nothing at all for a couple of seconds (a very scary couple of seconds). Like foot to the floor, no power.
I went back to the insignia garage and they reset the gear ratios (no idea why, not what I asked), so then I took the mechanic out to show what i meant, and he seemed to find excuses for all the times I showed him it, a little frustrating.

Leaves me in the position where I am not sure I trust its pull away in the same way I would trust, say, my wifes 1.6 10 year old 206 :/

Before I had this I had an insignia estate diesel, so obviously I expect big differences. and on that car I did experience the lack of power after a stop and start, which I was told was the turbo.

When it goes, it really goes and I have no problem with that, the acceleration and speed is strong and not intermittent, and have no other issues with the car.

Does this sound in any way normal?

 

[Hughes395]

Do you think it could be traction control kicking in mate? Sometimes when im away to pull away it does kill the power abit to stop wheel spin

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[leonisis]

Not at all. Could be a problem at the throttle pedal.
Have it checked at a VAG specialist garage who will have the knowledge and experience and equipment to scan and diagnose the fault.
Hope this helps

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[woodinblack]

Not sure. I have only had the car a bit. The traction control only ever kicked in on the insigia a couple of times, but that was a much heavier car.

Good idea though, I will switch it off and see if it does anything. Maybe I am just too heavy footed!

 

[KXL]

May I assume you have a DSG?

If yes, this sounds like the DSG clutch not engaging drive when it's supposed to.

When I had my Leon, to move off, need to lift off partially the brake, so clutch engages, once you see that RPM rises, you can push the gas pedal and car will go. This takes usually half a second or so.

On the impatient times when I try to quickly lift off a fully depressed brake and stomp on the gas, the car will 'kangaroo' forward once the clutch engage and doesn't appreciate the surge of power.

Of course if you have a manual, then you can ignore everything I said above

Also did I read correctly you brought your Seat Leon to a Insignia (Vauxhall?) garage to do some diagnostic checks?

 

[woodinblack]

I do have a DSG, and I also drive with two feet, which the guy in the SEAT garage said was the cause initially. And plenty of other people tell me is the root of all evil.

No, I took it to my local SEAT garage where i picked it up a few months ago (I bought it at another garage, but part of the same group and they sent it there to me). Its second hand but still under their warantee. They say there isn't anything wrong.

I didn't take it to the vauxhall garage. TBH, I don't know why I even took the vauxhall there they were so bad!

 

[KXL]

Oh you brake with your left all the time?

I'm too scared to try that...so brake and gas both with my right foot.

Also did you say all these weird drive problems happend after your knee op (left knee)?

I mean when I had a severally sprained ankle 2 years ago, many things (even walking and balancing) felt strange when I got back into the car, as my brain and foot wasn't communicating like before...

 

[woodinblack]

Yep, brake with left foot and accelerate with right foot - always have done since getting automatics about 15 years ago, couldn't do it the other way if I tried now. Tried doing it 'normally', scares the hell out of me, so much time lost moving your leg.

No, the problems existed before the knee - I had the car for about 4 weeks, then had the op, the day before the op I took it to the garage. I started driving again last week, hence remembering the issue.

Was very impressed, got in the car for the first time in 4 weeks, started without issue (my wifes car dies if you don't drive it for a week).

I was asking in hospital when I could drive again, they said as soon as I could do an emergency stop, then didn't know what to say when I pointed out I could already as they hadn't replaced that knee!

 

[KXL]

Yes, even after 1 month (when I was on holiday) the car started no problems and in the winter.

If you see in the engine bay, the battery is massive, plus also inside a nice 'keep warm' jacket casing. At least on the 2.0TDI it is.

I'm out of ideas with the gearbox... perhaps dealer needs to either update/reload the gearbox software/map. I would have said get them to check the gearbox fluid/oil, but I don't know if the 'dry' one needs or has any.

 

[Sonofzelda]

The other issue is that sometimes if I am drifting forwards, like wating for a gap in traffic to turn across, then I stop and immediately go again, there is nothing at all for a couple of seconds (a very scary couple of seconds). Like foot to the floor, no power.

Do you find your friends preferring to walk than accept a lift?

 

[silles]

- turbo lag?
- stop-start ?

 

[woodinblack]

Do you find your friends preferring to walk than accept a lift?

Not yet!

- turbo lag?
- stop-start ?

Not stop start - I have tried it with that off. Turbo lag - don't know, the insignia was a turbo diesel and did the no power thing a couple of times in 3 years, so maybe this is just a lot more twitchy. Had a turbo bike, that just was generally gutless before the turbo kicked in but had some power.
But I don't know, that is why I am asking, i have little to compare it to. I test drove a newer 1.4 leon and it wasn't like it.

 

[Curtly]

I'm guessing turbo lag from the thread title and first sentence.

Explains the no power and then loads

 

[KXL]

I forgot to ask, when you completely let go the brake in Drive, does the car even creap forward (quickly within 1/2 - 1 second)? When the car does creap forward and you push the gas, I'm guessing it does go. If it's creaping already, and you press gas firmly (revs rise?) and nothing much happens, then it's perhaps more engine related than gearbox.

But just when you are hard on the brakes after moving (eg...clutch disengages), and you get back on the power, the car is taking its sweet time to re-engage the clutch? More like a couple of seconds rather than (from my working properly DSG experience) 1/2 - 1 second? Smooth take-off or a bit...juddery?

I wonder if maybe the sensor in the brake pedal detecting when to re-engage the clutch is acting up. As you mentioned, I suppose before you noticed all these issues, your 1.8 DSG used to drive with the same charateristics (at least moving off, not comparing power, or suspension etc) the same like the 1.4 DSG you test drove? Eg...brake to gas, it goes and not wait to deliver power or do something?

Perhaps try a tank or two full of Shell V Power to clean/dislodge any gunk perhaps stuck somewhere in the engine? Air filter clear? Was this 'lack of go' charateristic prominent only after it sitting there for a month unused? Also what petrol you using?

 

[ukoldschool]

I do have a DSG, and I also drive with two feet, which the guy in the SEAT garage said was the cause initially. And plenty of other people tell me is the root of all evil.

No, I took it to my local SEAT garage where i picked it up a few months ago (I bought it at another garage, but part of the same group and they sent it there to me). Its second hand but still under their warantee. They say there isn't anything wrong.

I didn't take it to the vauxhall garage. TBH, I don't know why I even took the vauxhall there they were so bad!

Where about's do you live and what's your reg plate (so I can keep well away....)

its a car, not a go cart, drive it properly!

 

[woodinblack]

The car does creep forward. Generally when you press the pedal it does go, but occasionally the hesitation is there. However, it is normally from a stop that it occurs. The complete lack of power thing is when it is already creeping forwards, but that doesn't happen often.

I am feeling that the main thing is as you described, the time it takes to actually do anything from a complete stop. Maybe it is the DSG, i have never had one before, I am used to a car going as soon as the accelerator pedal is pressed. It certainly feels like over a second, but maybe it is just because I am not used to any hesitation - it feels more like the engine not revving but I suppose on an 'intelligent' system it probably controls the revs for the gearboxes sake rather than mine.

The difficultly of comparing it to the 1.4 is that I was doing a test drive in that one with a very chatty saleswoman telling me loads of things, and going around a pretty simple path. I didn't feel the same delay, but I also didn't realy push it from a standing start. My one when I bought it I couldn't test drive it at the time, and test drove it later. I didn't notice anything on the test drive, but noticed it shortly after getting the car. So the problem didn't 'occur', it has always been like that. The car is a 14 reg at 25k miles still in warantee.

 

[KXL]

Is it currently in Eco Mode on drive select? Else is it on supermarket petrol?

I'm not sure if you are one who like pressing buttons and options etc (I know I am, once managed to press something unintentially (or maybe intentionally subconsciously), and took me a long time to figure out how to undo what I pressed with my itchy fingers).

From my experience on my 2 cars with DSG,

2.o TDI DSG (6 speed) Leon if the brake is 40-100% pressed, clutch disengages (rpms drop perhaps from 750-500). If start stop is active, engine goes off. If you hold the brake at 20-40% (10% brake press is where car will creep forward with foot still on brake) it will hold the car gently (rpm is about 750), clutch engaged (even if start stop engaged it won't turn engine off). When at roundabouts I usually hold it at this point with clutch engaged.

In the first scenario, it takes 0.5 - 1 second for clutch to engage, rpm rise, then I press gas, car usually goes well. Has enough oomph for going quickly, only judders are when I put too much gas, and traction control tries to frantically stop wheels from spinning. I usually gently release the brake (like gently relesing clutch in a manual car) before i press gas. Do bear in mind that my brake and gas pedal will never be pressed at the same time. The time it takes it takes for the DSG to figure out I want to move, 95% of the time clutch is already engaged to go, before my right foot is on the gas from releasing the brake. The 5% it sometimes gets confused (or maybe it's me being confused) is when it's on a hill, and hill hold is active.

In the second scenario, as clutch is already engaged, I can just press gas quickly from releasing clutch without waiting car will go no problems

IF engine is off from start stop. I usually gently fully release the brake, mentally count 1 second, and go on the gas pedal. Start off is smooth. On the rare ocasion when I'm impatient, quickly release the brake, and foot already on gas (before dsg clutch can engage), I can hear the rpm rises to more than 1k, then a second later the clutch engages and I fly forward (and not smoothly).

On my 1.0 TSI DSG (7 speed), the clutch seems to be always engaged in D, no matter how hard I press the brake (no rpm rises either). But same, if I press brake 40-100% engine will swtich off with start stop engaged.
This is more like the older school autos, let go brake, the car moves.

However as I realised you use your left foot on gas, this technique may not work, and if your foot is still on the brake whilst your pressing the gas, the box might think, nope, you are not having that power. Much like if you try to rev the engine in Park or Neutral, it will stop you at (for Diesel was 2.5k, petrol 3k?) even if your foot is flat on the floor.

Try lifting your left foot off the brake completely before pressing the gas?

 

[Sonofzelda]

Is it currently in Eco Mode on drive select? Else is it on supermarket petrol?

I'm not sure if you are one who like pressing buttons and options etc (I know I am, once managed to press something unintentially (or maybe intentionally subconsciously), and took me a long time to figure out how to undo what I pressed with my itchy fingers).

Sounds like my first date

 

[woodinblack]

Yes, last night I played around with the drive modes, that I haven't really done much before. The system was on 'normal'. I tried it on 'Sport'. I am not sure what the difference is other than it selects sport gearbox ratios (the same as selecting them manually I suppose) and making the steering heavier.

I tried eco, not for long but it seemed to be similar to normal.

I have set the personalise to sport engine, and will leave it at that. I have been very impressed at its economy, so I can afford to lose a bit.

I haven't had the complete lack of power thing for a few days, but I have only managed to go to work and back a few times, which is not that far. Hopefully at the weekend I can spend some time on it.

In sport mode, there is definitely an improvement in that time it takes to go from a stop at a roundabout or junction. I am beginning to believe that maybe it is the DSG gearbox and this is what is considered normal. If instead of going when I want to go, I pause a bit, let it creep forward on its own for half a second or so and then press the accelerator, it seems much more willing (a little juddery, but maybe that is just coming back from a diesel to a petrol) to pull away well. Seems disappointing to have a poorer startup on a car that you could consider to be more sporty than a diesel estate that I have just come from, although obviously when it is going it really does go.

One thing that is certainly different to yours is that I never hear the engine rise and then the gearbox kick in. In these times where i press the pedal and nothing is there, it isn't the case the engine starts and then the gearbox kicks in, I have had that with several cars, it is a case of there is no engine rev rise and then suddenly there is.

When I had it at the SEAT garage they said that they had reset the gearbox and that it would learn over time the way I used it. I wasn't sure by that stage whether I believed them, or if I did, what time would be. As that was before the knee and I have only just started driving again, I haven't done a journey more than 10 miles since, maybe this weekend I need to go for a long drive and get used to it?

Thanks so much for you comments on this.

 

[KXL]

Well on my 7 speed Ibiza petrol DSG, the revs do not rise, nor can I feel when the clutch has engaged or disengaged.

Could be petrol 7 speeds are completely different to 6 speed TDI boxes.

On my petrol DSG, if taking off quickly, from base rpm to 2k, it's a bit stuttery.

On diesel DSG I had, taking off quickly very smooth, but just sounds rattly (diesel quirk).